Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[fredoheaven]

Are you of the world, or have you been called out of the world?
If you have been called out of the world you have been enabled.

You know it is very odd that in talking about inability you point to the verses regarding people who have been
enabled and say they prove me wrong. You just come across as not having any idea what you are talking about.

Scripture please. Thanks

 

[Magenta]

Scripture please. Thanks

We have been discussing it. Do you really have no idea what you are talking about?

Does the Spirit of Truth live in you or not? Or do you still have that God-hating heart you were born with?

Are you a child of wrath, or a child of God??? Do you walk in the light, or are you walking in darkness?

Jesus’ words in John 6 verse 65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1 verse 21 and 2 verse 13; Ephesians 2 verse 1a and 3b; Philippians 1 verse 6 and 2 verse 13

 

[Magenta]

Jesus said"he that believeth on me.." suggests men can exercise faith or can respond to God or Christ.

Your incurably wicked heart did not decide to believe what it could neither receive nor comprehend while you were
under the power and influence of the evil one, hostile in your mind to God, a lover of darkness and slave to sin, refusing
to come into the light and opposed to the spiritual things of God. Yeah, I know people don't believe what the Bible says.
They are very attached to their false doctrine and prefer it over Scriptural truth.

 

[Komentaja]

Question from me:

1 Timothy 2:4
God wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

2 Timothy 2:25
Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth

How are these two reconciled? God wants all to be saved, yet it must be God that grants them repentance leading them to the knowledge of the truth?

 

[fredoheaven]

We have been discussing it. Do you really have no idea what you are talking about?

Does the Spirit of Truth live in you or not? Or do you still have that God-hating heart you were born with?

Are you a child of wrath, or a child of God??? Do you walk in the light, or are you walking in darkness?

Jesus’ words in John 6 verse 65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1 verse 21 and 2 verse 13; Ephesians 2 verse 1a and 3b; Philippians 1 verse 6 and 2 verse 13

John 6:65

Of course, the ones given or enabled are those who come and believe in Christ


King James Bible John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Komentaja]

Question from me:

1 Timothy 2:4
God wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

2 Timothy 2:25
Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth

How are these two reconciled? God wants all to be saved, yet it must be God that grants them repentance leading them to the knowledge of the truth?

This must mean that the all people in 1 Timothy 2:4 cannot mean every single human ever, because we know not everyone is saved, and we also know that God's will cannot be thwarted.

Acts 13:48 says 'those who were ordained believed'.
Isaiah 46:10 says ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’ Job echoes the same, as does Ephesians 1:11

All these truths put together, I want to know what 1 Timothy 2:4 means.

Whatever it means, I am just grateful to God He has been gracious to me and saved me. I don't have all the answers yet but I am thankful for grace. Not me, but Him

 

[sawdust]

Question from me:

1 Timothy 2:4
God wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

2 Timothy 2:25
Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth

How are these two reconciled? God wants all to be saved, yet it must be God that grants them repentance leading them to the knowledge of the truth?

The first is applicable to the unsaved, the second is applicable to believers. Verse 20 is the key, it speaks of God's house.

 

[sawdust]

Jesus has a soul.
He could not become as an angel.

That is true, yet there is also the Angel of the Lord so it seems to me that God can definitely relate to angels. It might also explain that angels are indeed created in the image and likeness of God, just not God the Son, but God the Spirit.

 

[Komentaja]

Your incurably wicked heart did not decide to believe what it could neither receive nor comprehend while you were
under the power and influence of the evil one, hostile in your mind to God, a lover of darkness and slave to sin, refusing
to come into the light and opposed to the spiritual things of God. Yeah, I know people don't believe what the Bible says.
They are very attached to their false doctrine and prefer it over Scriptural truth.

Thank you God. I understand it now

 

[GWH]

The Bible puts it quite differently. People know God exists. Creation reveals the work of His hands.
But the gospel is not evident in creation. People can be certain there is a God but the gospel is still
foolishness to them with their uncircumcised ears and hearts.

Re "But the gospel is not evident in creation": Paul thought it was as God's omnipotence and moral nature
(cf. the universal golden rule), which is why men are "without excuse". (Rom. 1:20)

 

[studier]

There is a whole lot more that could be said, but it has been said ad nauseum.

Reposting and highlighting.

 

[GWH]

Why don't you answer your own question for a change and follow through with the logical conclusions you must face instead of burying your head in the sand of generalities that ignores the details.

Here are some truths to think on:

1. We are made in the image and likeness of God. Gen1:27
2. There is an innate corruption in the flesh. Rom.7:23
3. We are of the flesh. Gen.5:3 Jn.3:6
4. Which makes us slaves to sin. Rom.7:14
5. Nos.1&3 set up a conflict that is made apparent when God manifests Himself to man. Rom.7:15-20
6. The creation, prophets, Torah and the work of God the Son and Spirit all point to God's existence and man's situation in relation to Him. Matt.11:13 Jn.1:9-10 Jn.16:8 Rom.1:21
7. God comes to us with grace and truth. Jn.1:14

Once you comprehend the above, Rom.1:21 answers your question as to how the mind becomes darkened (they reject the truth shown) and Jn.1:14 explains why not all minds become totally corrupt and desperately wicked (there are those who do not reject the truth shown).

There is a whole lot more that could be said, but it has been said ad nauseum.

So, in your words? Thanks for the discussion.

grace and peace.

Re ad nauseum, can we substitute for barf?

 

[studier]

Re ad nauseum, can we substitute for barf?

I'm not exactly sure what this means, but it seems serious.

I would say that it seems obvious we can do just about anything around here, especially with Scripture.

I do think this thread has finally begun to shut down the nonsense and call out those who post it.

 

[Cameron143]

The Spirit brings to my mind His word, Phil2:3, and I reason it must be true, regardless of whether I'd like to think otherwise or not. Do you only now willfully walk in the Spirit where before you only walked willfully in the flesh? What about when you don't regard others above yourself? Is it then now not willfully?

We are to keep our hearts and minds stayed on things above. This is one of the goals of spiritual disciplines. It's why we are to pray without ceasing. Our thoughts and affections are to be towards God, and not ourselves.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus has a soul.
He could not become as an angel.

Whether one believes this to be true or not, it doesn't change what was posted.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

But the gospel is not evident in creation

Have you ever heard that God revealed the gospel in the heavens?

Genesis 1 tells us And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years

God put lights in the heavens for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years. These signs, seasons, days, years are God's doing. And yes the adversary has set up a counterfeit system in order to dupe mankind. However, what the adversary has done in no way affects what God has done.

The magi, having seen the sign in the heavens, traveled to see Him that is born King of the Jews because they had seen His star (Matt 2:2). This was a heavenly display that was unique and specifically tied to Messiah.

I believe the gospel having been written in the heavens was one of the ways fathers and mothers taught their children way back when ... before this information/knowledge was lost.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Scripture please. Thanks

[sarc]what ??? ... you want chapter and verse so you, as a Berean, can search the Scriptures to determine whether these things be so ??? ...
[/sarc]
.

 

[sawdust]

Whether one believes this to be true or not, it doesn't change what was posted.

That's true, it doesn't change the fact that angels are spirits and therefore cannot die spiritually hence, no-one can die for them.

The devil's in the details.

 

[Cameron143]

That's true, it doesn't change the fact that angels are spirits and therefore cannot die spiritually hence, no-one can die for them.

The devil's in the details.

Are you saying the spiritual aspect of angels cannot be corrupted?
Do you have a verse?

 

[Jackson129]

Sin and evil are not seen as the same thing to God.

It says, Jesus died for your sins... not died for your evil

Sin is sin.
Evil justifies what is sin.

Sin is to be recognized by the believer and named to the Lord for forgiveness and purification. (1 John 1:9)
Evil would find ways to deny that a sin was a sin.

I've always seen it as this. The same evil it takes to kill someone is the same evil it takes to steal a bike. They are just different manifestations of it.