Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

They don't believe because it's hidden from them

they don't believe because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

Romans 1:16-19

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it isthe power of God unto salvation to every onethat believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

.

 

[rogerg]

But will @rogerg admit his clueless blundering and atrociously sloppy use of Scripture?
I would think that this would be the first step to recovery would it not?

you are the clueless one. as expected, you and @reneweddaybyday either didn't read or didn't understand (or both) those verses. They mean precisely what they say. And trying to browbeat anyone into submission ain't gonna work so knock it off

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Read those verses again closely -it was speaking to John the Baptist but about Jesus Christ. John the Baptist didn't have his own people, Jesus did. The intent of those verses is clear, hence the:

[Luk 1:78 KJV] 78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

Zacharias was not speaking to John Baptist. John Baptist was 8 days old. Zacharias and Elizabeth brought John Baptist to circumcise him (Luke 1:59). Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied (Luke 1:67) ... Zacharias was speaking to those who were gathered with them.

John Baptist was faithful to his ministry. He preached repentance ... he preached to people about Messiah ... he baptized Messiah and when Jesus came to be baptized, John said behold the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world.

Concerning your statement John Baptist "didn't have his own people" ... look up "disciples of John" at Blue Letter Bible website click

 

[cv5]

you are the clueless one. as expected, you and @reneweddaybyday either didn't read or didn't understand (or both) those verses. They mean precisely what they say. And trying to browbeat anyone into submission ain't gonna work so knock it off

Oh I am auditioning your posts from time to time. Evaluating their accuracy and exegetical soundness leads me to the conclusion that you really don't get it. At all.

There is zero support for your notions so stated here. Zero.
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rogerg said:
Wrong. I just posted these verses to sawdust which clearly demonstrate (if you take time to read and think about them) that salvation occurs first

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and [in] the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Romans 10:14-18

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

according to vs 18 ... yes, they hear ...

according to vs 16 ... they do not obey the gospel because they do not believe the report. They reject the report because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

.

according to vs 18 ... yes, they hear ...

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

[rogerg]

Zacharias was not speaking to John Baptist. John Baptist was 8 days old.

[Luk 1:76 KJV]
76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; ...

John Baptist was faithful to his ministry. He preached repentance ... he preached to people about Messiah ... he baptized Messiah and when Jesus came to be baptized, John said behold the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world.

Per the above, John would be faithful to his ministry, but they were the people of God

 

[Jordon]

they don't believe because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

Romans 1:16-19

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it isthe power of God unto salvation to every onethat believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

.

well and after they have neglected the truth from the father, this can happen, Leviticus 26:36, which means the light of the gospel is then hidden from them

 

[cv5]

[Luk 1:76 KJV]
76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; ...



Per the above, John would be faithful to his ministry, but they were the people of God

Consider yourself fortunate that you have a kindly saint in @reneweddaybyday correcting your endless and continuous errors.
She possesses a bottomless well of patience. Good for her.

I am not likewise endowed in a case like yours.

BTW, as anyone can see, your treatment of Luke 1 the Zacharias prophecy could not be more wrong, or awful.
And your attempt to shoehorn Calvinism into it is atrocious.

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... when you heard the gospel preached, it was no longer "hidden" from you.

The gospel is hidden to them that are lost

 

[brightfame52]

they don't believe because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness

That's what a lost person does since it's hidden from them.

 

[Genez]

It says the gospel is hidden to them that are lost.

God does not start with the Gospel.
The Gospel is the finish line in God's drawing of men.

To those for whom the Gospel is hidden?
They never get to that finish line of the drawing of God.

No Gospel mentioned yet in beginning phase of God's drawing...
God first causes in men to take place what is called... "God consciousness."

Here is a beginning stage of the drawing of God. No Gospel yet.

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power ​

and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been ​

made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20​

For those who arrogantly end up stopping in this next place?
To them, the Gospel is to remain hidden.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, ​

but their thinking became futile, and their foolish hearts were darkened. For although ​

they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking ​

became futile, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Romans 1:21-22​

The drawing of God is progressive and must go through phases.
It is progressive in its advancing a soul into being prepared for entering into God's desired outcome for them.

The Gospel is only the last phase of God's drawing men to salvation.
For the Gospel is given when the drawing has been completed by God for them!

grace and peace ..........

 

[Cameron143]

well and after they have neglected the truth from the father, this can happen, Leviticus 26:36, which means the light of the gospel is then hidden from them

Very good. It is not the gospel that is hidden, but the light of the gospel. They hear but do not understand; they see but do not perceive. No different than Matthew 13:13.

 

[rogerg]

Consider yourself fortunate that you have a kindly saint in @reneweddaybyday correcting your endless and continuous errors.
She possesses a bottomless well of patience. Good for her.

I am not likewise endowed in a case like yours.

BTW, as anyone can see, your treatment of Luke 1 the Zacharias prophecy could not be more wrong, or awful.
And your attempt to shoehorn Calvinism into it is atrocious.

lol - Do you actually think I can about what you or @reneweddaybyday think about me??? Really? That's totally absurd and I couldn't care less - I just consider the sources and ignore them thereby giving them their proper due.

 

[brightfame52]

Wrong. I just posted these verses to sawdust which clearly demonstrate (if you take time to read and think about them) that salvation occurs first


[Luk 1:77-79 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and [in] the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Correct to give knowledge of salvation they already have because their sin has been forgiven. That's good news when you come into the knowledge of it. It agrees with Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Notice it was their salvation before they heard about it. Notice the word Your, that is possession.

 

[brightfame52]

God does not start with the Gospel.
The Gospel is the finish line in God's drawing of men.

The gospel is hidden to them that are lost

 

[rogerg]

Consider yourself fortunate that you have a kindly saint in @reneweddaybyday correcting your endless and continuous errors.
She possesses a bottomless well of patience. Good for her.

I am not likewise endowed in a case like yours.

Really? And just what are you going to do about it?

 

[Genez]

The gospel is hidden to them that are lost

Sound doctrine is hidden to those who are lost in the purpose of their salvation after they are saved.

This is the phase where legalists trip up and end up unwilling of correction to learn to walk by accurate teachings, but will cling tightly to crutches of dogmatic (non-thinking) dogma.

Philippians 2:12

​

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now ​

much more, in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. ​

​

They want to induce into happy growing Christians their own brand of fear and trembling into them.
It's for the growth benefit and maturity of those who are maturing that God allows for grumpy, miserable ones to stay alive.

How many thumbs down will I see for telling the Truth?

 

[cv5]

well and after they have neglected the truth from the father, this can happen, Leviticus 26:36, which means the light of the gospel is then hidden from them

The gospel is hidden due to ***audience hiding from it*** (certainly not the message which is being proclaimed thought the whole world!), this "hiding" being the express will and desire of the intended audience, because they CHOSE to "not come" to Him.

The gospel and the Giver are simply ignored. As this parable clearly portrays.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/luk/14/15-24/s_987015

Jhn 5:40
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Zec 7:11
But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
Act 7:57
Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

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But it is not only hiding from it that produces blindness, but also:
Rebelling against Him. Or not obey Him. Or not believing Him. Or not putting your trust in Him. And so on and so forth.

How many more hundreds of examples do you need for you to abandon Reformed super-determinism?

Lev 26:14
But if ye will H8085 not hearken H8085 unto me, and will not do all these commandments;

Lev 26:18
And if ye will H8085 not yet for all this hearken H8085 unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

Lev 26:21
And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken H8085 unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.

Lev 26:27
And if ye will H8085 not for all this hearken H8085 unto me, but walk contrary unto me;

Zep 3:2
She obeyed H8085 not the voice; she received not correction; she trusted not in the LORD; she drew not near to her God.

Mic 1:2
Hear, H8085 all ye people; hearken, O earth, and all that therein is: and let the Lord GOD be witness against you, the Lord from his holy temple.

Hos 9:17
My God will cast them away, because they did H8085 not hearken H8085 unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations.

Isa 1:2
Hear, H8085 O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

Isa 30:9
That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear H8085 the law of the LORD:

 

[cv5]

Really? And just what are you going to do about it?

I do not have to do anything about anything. Another false assumption on your part.

 

[Genez]

well and after they have neglected the truth from the father, this can happen, Leviticus 26:36, which means the light of the gospel is then hidden from them

That OT passage was God's warning to the proud Jews about punishment for not following the Law.

It's kind of like you, who are saved, who keeps proudly refusing sound doctrine after salvation.

 

[rogerg]

Correct to give knowledge of salvation they already have because their sin has been forgiven. That's good news when you come into the knowledge of it. It agrees with Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Notice it was their salvation before they heard about it. Notice the word Your, that is possession.

Yup. So then, @HeIsHere and @sawdust better get themselves accustomed to seeing those verses - and your too - because each and every time I observe their rant posted that there is no scriptural support that salvation comes first, those verses will be found immediately following it.