Calvinism And Predestination
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Note that the same Greek word (you are pointing out) in Matthew 24:10, is used also here (slightly differing form, because "aorist" instead of "future tense" like is in Matt24:10):
Matthew 15:12 [blb] -
Then the disciples having approached, said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees, having heard this saying, were offended [G4624]?"
Do you believe these Pharisees ever had faith (from which they "fell away")?? I don't, and don't believe that is necessary (for this word to apply).
I do not believe the Rapture is referred to in any of the Olivet Discourse (if that's what you are asking), nor did Jesus refer to it in any direct sense before His Upper Room Discourse (though He did say, "I will build My church" in Matthew 16:18; etc); so that means I do not believe Matthew 13 refers to it either (in case you wondered that
), which passage (as I've mentioned before) shows the "reap"[-issues] to be in the exact opposite "sequence" as that of [things involving/surrounding/pertaining to] our Rapture.Would you care to give me any examples of where you (might) believe that it is referred to, there?
Molinism^ I am neither Calvinist nor Arminianist, so there must be something that is "neither"
i agree the reap is opposite sequence but why does it say let them grow together until? if rapture happens before it, isnt that a separation before?I do not believe the Rapture is referred to in any of the Olivet Discourse (if that's what you are asking), nor did Jesus refer to it in any direct sense before His Upper Room Discourse (though He did say, "I will build My church" in Matthew 16:18; etc); so that means I do not believe Matthew 13 refers to it either (in case you wondered that
Would you care to give me any examples of where you (might) believe that it is referred to, there?
you always say i dont read your posts but i do and i value them and like you.
i remember you told me matthew 24:31 is reference to isaiah 27:13. so its not referred to
I do not believe the Rapture is referred to in any of the Olivet Discourse (if that's what you are asking), nor did Jesus refer to it in any direct sense before His Upper Room Discourse (though He did say, "I will build My church" in Matthew 16:18; etc); so that means I do not believe Matthew 13 refers to it either (in case you wondered that
Would you care to give me any examples of where you (might) believe that it is referred to, there?
Three things occur at His coming.
- The resurrection
- The rapture
- The destruction of the wicked; including the antichrist
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8
The Olivet Discourse is about Jesus answering His disciples question about His coming.
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” Matthew 24:3
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31
At His coming He gathers His people at the resurrection and rapture.
At His coming He destroys the antichrist.
JLB
I do not understand what your point.
Do you believe matt 24 : 10, when Jesus say many will turn away from the faith
A. Many mean Christian or
B many mean Pharisees?
Not my system, it’s scripture.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15
The resurrection and rapture are shown at His coming.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8
The antichrist is destroyed at His coming.
Now please present the scriptures that say the earth is populated in the millinieum.
JPT
here is the scriptures: revelation 20:8-9, if there is nobody in flesh, who does satan go out to deceive? not the glorified saints. if its in heaven satan is already cast out of there.
if Jesus reigns from throne of David its in Jerusalem therefore its in earth. revelation 5:9 also says they shall rule on the earth. daniel says all rule will be given to saints. its on earth.
Go ahead and post the scripture not a scripture “reference” with your “explanation” that says the earth will be “populated”.
There will be people on earth who are flesh, just as Jesus is flesh.
JLB
Yes the resurrected saints of God will reign with Christ on earth for 1000 years.
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4
JLB
will satan go out to deceive these people then if nobody else is there? i dont think so
Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. Revelation 20:7-8
Satan will be released at the end of the thousand years to go out and deceive the nations.
What does this have to do with the resurrection, rapture and destruction of the antichrist at His coming?
JLB
John chapter 3 is one of the cornerstones of Calvinism...
Its not something people really want to hear. That we were chosen. We want to think WE did the choosing.
John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
You stated it yourself "Here is the choice for the BORN AGAIN (already saved) christian, to obey the truth or obey unrighteousness."
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Then, these which I post, will more then likely, make as much sense.
1 Corinthians 1
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God(,) our Father, AND from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the GRACE of God which is GIVEN you by Jesus Christ;
1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God(,) and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope BY THE RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ from the dead,
2 Corinthians 1
3 Blessed be God, EVEN the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
2 Peter 1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God AND our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE of God, AND of Jesus our Lord,
(note the bolded parts)
In the environs we find ourselves in these days, and not that they are that much different then previous days, save for the fact that satan is working even harder these last days, as he knows days his time is short.
It saddens me knowing that so many peoples "knowledge OF God", is LIMITED to ONLY Jesus Christ!
This (again sadly), is what "traditions of man" DOES! Having to admit? It is very good in "MAKING Void", the WORD of GOD!
Revelation 4
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Revelation 5
And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us TO God* by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; (* note should be taken here. "TO God" (and) NOT to Himself! Let him/her who hath eyes to see, and ears to hear? SEE! and HEAR!)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain TO RECEIVE power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
