Calvinism and Context?

[dcontroversal]

That is not what the early church fathers thought. Or taught. Come to think of it that goes for Paul and Peter as well.

Not hardly and you used verses out of co text to support your view....especially the last one!

 

[jackrosie]

@Oncefallen .....I hope and pray that you ban me and @dcontroversal ....I sincerely do!.....

He will never stop harassing me....that I can assure you.....because I wasn’t saved by reading my bible....many have been saved without reading a bible.

 

[oldethennew]

if you can read all that had been written and honestly believe she has dealt with me fairly and the stuff she is saying is right then there is nothing to say.....!

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you are 'both' at 'fault' =
need we say more???

 

[jackrosie]

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you are 'both' at 'fault' =
need we say more???

I agree,only he started it.....and I retaliated......I hope we both get banned..all he does is dig and harass....but I bet he’s still here tomorrow...goodnight..I’m done......

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

because I wasn’t saved by reading my bible....many have been saved without reading a bible.

... a question comes to my mind... do you believe those "many" (or, any) can be saved without hearing and knowing anything about "Christ and His *finished work, for salvation," as in, not one mention of that [/Him] at all, in their lives and hearing (or testimony)? Just wondering...


[*His death on the Cross, burial, and resurrection--1Cor15:1-4,11-17; 1Jn5:9-12]

 

[cv5]

So the elect are born saved?

You are not paying attention! I have already explained this.
Let me do so again for you:

The elect are foreknown according predetermined plan of God from eternity past.
No one knows who are the elect are except God the Father himself.
When the gospel is preached, THEN a miraculous rebirth occurs by agency of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit, by his work, GIVES ASSENT, AGREEING and proclaiming beyond doubt that this person WAS INDEED ELECT from before the foundation of the world.

No one is born saved. The actual event of salvation, the incident of rebirth always occurs and must always occur during the temporal lifetime of the believer.

Hope this helps.....

 

[oldethennew]

the 'right and wrongs 'here in this sight are obviously 'un-equal' - and so, if one excepts their 'rules', and decides
to 'stay and do Yeshua's works then, do so, and if Yeshua leads you to new road-ways, then be thankful and
go for His Gold...

 

[jackrosie]

... a question comes to my mind... do you believe those "many" (or, any) can be saved without hearing and knowing anything about "Christ and His finished work, for salvation," as in, not one mention of that [/Him] at all, in their lives and hearing (or testimony)? Just wondering...

Of course not,of course we must know about Christ,I was taught religious education at school and worked for a vicar....when I was saved,I was working for the vicar..who constantly told me about Jesus...his wife also...all part of God’s plan to draw me to him....my belief...goodnight.

 

[cv5]

Prime example of my post about catch phrases, tilted responses etc....

Mere men hey....MADE in the image of God, and loved so much God sent his son to pay our debt and settle the matter....

Exactly what religion does....devalues the worth of Men.....that even the angels look on and wonder....what is man that though are MINDFUL OF THEM....

YOU have serious issues man!

My questions remain unanswered. Despite your kerfuffle.

 

[dcontroversal]

===================================================================================
you are 'both' at 'fault' =
need we say more???

I am at fault for defending truth and the correct message of salvation....Ok.....see ya!

 

[dcontroversal]

My questions remain unanswered. Despite your kerfuffle.

You have no valid questions...and like your other calvinist pals, using verbiage to make it look like we are off base in our defense equals JACK.

 

[Bbrdrd]

I seriously doubt it. And I don't really see anything compelling enough in scripture to make me believe otherwise.

The Apostles did not choose themselves. As the group, the Apostles were far too fragile feeble and spiritually crippled to do anything about their own salvation that's for sure. I think that by the grace of God they were both called AND heeded the call.

And tell me if I'm wrong but every time that Jesus exited the situation they literally fell to pieces.
No, Jesus was the author and finisher of their faith. He chose them explicitly and according to scripture, from eternity past before they were born (as was Paul, as was "probably" every seminal figure in the history of salvation). His prayers perpetuated their perseverance and secured ultimate salvation.

And Judas, in my humble opinion, had absolutely no choice in the matter of his destiny. NONE.
There is no way that any of the scripture pertaining to Christ could have been broken. No way.

Didn't you at one point state that the Bible is not fatalistic or am I mistaken about that?

 

[jackrosie]

I am at fault for defending truth and the correct message of salvation....Ok.....see ya!

“Your”.....correct message of salvation.....you don’t know how God....chooses...draws....and saves his children..or do you deny that he choose,draws and saves his children?

Has your spirit been quickened?

 

[cv5]

Of course not,of course we must know about Christ,I was taught religious education at school and worked for a vicar....when I was saved,I was working for the vicar..who constantly told me about Jesus...his wife also...all part of God’s plan to draw me to him....my belief...goodnight.

My personal opinion is that simply hearing about Jesus and His mighty work is and has been enough to save people, whether they possess a Bible or not. The believers will eventually lay their hands on one more likely than not though.

 

[cv5]

Didn't you at one point state that the Bible is not fatalistic or am I mistaken about that?

Well, I am not a philosopher. I take if you are a student of Aristotle?

 

[Bbrdrd]

Well, I am not a philosopher. I take if you are a student of Aristotle?

I asked a fairly simple question. No philosophy required, just let your yes be yes or your no be no.

 

[dcontroversal]

“Your”.....correct message of salvation.....you don’t know how God....chooses...draws....and saves his children..or do you deny that he choose,draws and saves his children?

Has your spirit been quickened?

Yeah, I do know the word of God is clear......try believing it!

 

[Magenta]

“Your”.....correct message of salvation.....you don’t know how God....chooses...draws....and saves his children..or do you deny that he choose,draws and saves his children?

Like the rest, we were by nature objects [children] of wrath. Ephesians 2:3

Yet to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God- John 1:12

 

[jackrosie]

My personal opinion is that simply hearing about Jesus and His mighty work is and has been enough to save people, whether they possess a Bible or not. The believers will eventually lay their hands on one more likely than not though.

Amen!..that’s how I was saved...only I was so excited when God Saved me....I rushed out and bought my precious bible,the word of God.....and he indwells me......for the last 28 yrs....my Faith has gotten stronger and stronger,increased by God......Praise His Holy Name.......Without God I am nothing,zero/nada.

 

[dcontroversal]

My personal opinion is that simply hearing about Jesus and His mighty work is and has been enough to save people, whether they possess a Bible or not. The believers will eventually lay their hands on one more likely than not though.

Most people know who Jesus is, what he has done and they are not saved....ONE MUST believe the GOSPEL OF THEIR SALVATION to be born again from above...!