By Works

[throughfaith]

Romans 8:17 KJV
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1 Peter 4:1-2 KJV
[1] Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; [2] That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

The cross is a picture of suffering.

I believe thats reaching beyond what the text says . Suffering is Part of being a believer . But its not a requirement to be saved . Do you mean like what some Muslims think they have to do to enter paradise ?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

I believe thats reaching beyond what the text says . Suffering is Part of being a believer . But its not a requirement to be saved

Yes it is.

Romans 8:16-17 KJV
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: [17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12 KJV
[12] If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us

 

[throughfaith]

You appear to be a Mid Acts Dispensationalist in your doctrine.

I think the best part about being a Mid Acts is that you can really enjoy reading Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, 1-3 John without being worried about verses in those books that indicate that salvation is not for us to have now, but something that we can only expect in the future, after we do the works.

I agree with your points and its an area where I tread carefully . I don't call myself a dispensational. Although I believe everyone is seeing some divisions and is a dispy to one degree or another . I. m just honestly trying to rightly divide and read what the bible says . We hear a lot about what the Bible supposedly' teaches ' but this is usually at the cost of what the bible actually says .

 

[throughfaith]

Yes it is.

Romans 8:16-17 KJV
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: [17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12 KJV
[12] If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us

2 tim 2 in context .
11¶It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13If we believe not, YET HE ABIDETH FAITHFUL : HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF
14¶Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[throughfaith]

Yes it is.

Romans 8:16-17 KJV
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: [17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12 KJV
[12] If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us

Wouldn't this negate Jesus dying for the sins of the world ? If we have to die and suffer for own sins .
I quote Mormons and Jehovah witnesses a lot as over the years in evangelism I've worked with a lot of cults . For instance Mormons quote 2nd nephi in the book of Mormon " For by grace are ye saved , AFTER all we can do " . Is this similar to what your saying ?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Wouldn't this negate Jesus dying for the sins of the world ?

The dying of our Lord was to atone for the unbelievers sins.

Once a believer he must now walk worthy of the vocation and continue in the faith or else be cut off with the unbelievers (Romans 11:20-22).

 

[throughfaith]

The dying of our Lord was to atone for the unbelievers sins.

Once a believer he must now walk worthy of the vocation and continue in the faith or else be cut off with the unbelievers (Romans 11:20-22).

1 John 2:2-4
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And your mis use of Romans 11 would conradict our predestination which is already saved people to Guaranteed future Adoption / glorification.
9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.( Guarantee future glorification)

eph 4.3030And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. ( Guarenteed future Glorification)

rom 8.23 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.( Guaranteed future Glorification, not based our our works/ performance/ deeds of faith / tithing / baptism or giving to charity .

 

[Micaiah-imla]

And your mis use of Romans 11 would conradict our predestination which is already saved people to Guaranteed future Adoption / glorification.

Those who are predestined are only known by God. We are not all-knowing as he is.

And how am I “misusing” the scripture I wrote? The scripture is clear. It’s a matter of hearing it.

Do you have ears to hear?

Or do you have the Once Saved Always Saved filter over your ears?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternal security is only during the church age with the Giving of the Holy Spirit which now permanently indwells believers until the Adoption ( rom 8.23 ) David prayed 'not to take the Holy Spirit from him ' because he saw it come and go on Saul . And there are many instances where we see this in other places with others in the OT . No one was ' born again ' and sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption ( eph 4.30 ) And no one in the OT was baptised into the body of Christ. During the Tribulation no one have the above things stated either. Eternal security is just for the church age . until the rapture .

Please God no, not another one who deny’s grace in the OT and later, thinking the church age is so special they do not have to EARN their way in while everyone else does..

the Hs was given special people, for power not for salvation, david was gods king, amd had the spirit to give him power as king, what he was worried about was losing that power and special bond. Not losing salvation. God called him a man after Gods heart, he was fully justified based on christs future death

all people at all times have been saved by Gods grace

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes they only understood much much later what was meant by the cross . They were not preaching the death , burial and resurrection until after the death , burial and resurrection. Which is why it is an issue to quote Jesus words to the Disciples out of context.

No, they were looking forward to whatever God had planned to redeem them of their sin, that’s what was said, they looked forward to this day you are about to witness.

 

[throughfaith]

Please God no, not another one who deny’s grace in the OT and later, thinking the church age is so special they do not have to EARN their way in while everyone else does..

the Hs was given special people, for power not for salvation, david was gods king, amd had the spirit to give him power as king, what he was worried about was losing that power and special bond. Not losing salvation. God called him a man after Gods heart, he was fully justified based on christs future death

all people at all times have been saved by Gods grace

Psalm 51 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. ??
He Just committed adultery and Murder . which there was no sacrifices for this .
And

No, they were looking forward to whatever God had planned to redeem them of their sin, that’s what was said, they looked forward to this day you are about to witness.

luke 18 .
31¶Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34¶And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
THEY UNDERSTOOD NONE OF THESE THINGS .
what were they preaching then ? the gospel of the kingdom .

 

[throughfaith]

Those who are predestined are only known by God. We are not all-knowing as he is.

And how am I “misusing” the scripture I wrote? The scripture is clear. It’s a matter of hearing it.

Do you have ears to hear?

Or do you have the Once Saved Always Saved filter over your ears?

Those that are warned of being cut off are the gentle as a whole , as israel is temporarily cut off due to judicial hardening brought on by their rejection, and the gentiles are grafted in . This will change soon .
Those that are saved are known of God
Gal 4
6¶And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8¶Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Those who God knows ( depart from me I NEVER knew you ) are then predestined to Guarenteed glorification.

 

[throughfaith]

Please God no, not another one who deny’s grace in the OT and later, thinking the church age is so special they do not have to EARN their way in while everyone else does..

the Hs was given special people, for power not for salvation, david was gods king, amd had the spirit to give him power as king, what he was worried about was losing that power and special bond. Not losing salvation. God called him a man after Gods heart, he was fully justified based on christs future death

all people at all times have been saved by Gods grace

Where did I say anything about ' grace ' . I said the Holy spirit was not sealing people until the day of redemption in the OT . No one was born again in the OT . Unless you have some verses ? The resurrection hadn't happened yet for those things to happen .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where did I say anything about ' grace ' . I said the Holy spirit was not sealing people until the day of redemption in the OT . No one was born again in the OT . Unless you have some verses ? The resurrection hadn't happened yet for those things to happen .

If their salvation was not secure they had to work for it

its not rocket science

if it is of works, it is not of grace

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Psalm 51 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. ??
He Just committed adultery and Murder . which there was no sacrifices for this .
And
luke 18 .
31¶Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34¶And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
THEY UNDERSTOOD NONE OF THESE THINGS .
what were they preaching then ? the gospel of the kingdom .

The hidden mystery, why did God hide it fro them?

 

[throughfaith]

If their salvation was not secure they had to work for it

its not rocket science

if it is of works, it is not of grace

Do you have some verses for your claim that OT saints were Baptised into the body of christ / sealed by the HS and Born from above ?

 

[throughfaith]

The hidden mystery, why did God hide it fro them?

Could you explain ? not sure what you mean ?

 

[throughfaith]

If their salvation was not secure they had to work for it

its not rocket science

if it is of works, it is not of grace

1 peter 1.3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

 

[throughfaith]

The hidden mystery, why did God hide it fro them?

Sorry I get what you mean now .
1 cor 2 .
Heres why , notice verse 8
6¶Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
If the disciples had known then the devil would have known . .Jesus tells them so that when the time had come " Then they remembered He said those things " Luke 24 .8
And they remembered his words,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you have some verses for your claim that OT saints were Baptised into the body of christ / sealed by the HS and Born from above ?

Who said anything about those things

they were not saved by the law or earning their salvation, niether will tribulation saints.