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Jul 1, 2025
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#1
Dear members, a recent paper has been released: https://zenodo.org/records/15758303

Name "The Logical Necessity of an Eternal Dimension: Ontological Foundations Beyond Physical Reality"

This paper basically proves an eternal being (God) is needed for our universe to exist.

Please support the paper by taking a look (will increase its visibility) and sharing it.

Please also share your toughs here:
Blessings.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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#2
I did not click on that link but this has been sort of known since the Huble telescope was launched back in the 90s which expanded our knowledge to realize that a Creator is indeed needed which in turn also humbled us by the depth of the details and the mysteries in which God keeps things from us.
 
Jun 7, 2025
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#3
Dear members, a recent paper has been released: https://zenodo.org/records/15758303

Name "The Logical Necessity of an Eternal Dimension: Ontological Foundations Beyond Physical Reality"

This paper basically proves an eternal being (God) is needed for our universe to exist.

Please support the paper by taking a look (will increase its visibility) and sharing it.

Please also share your toughs here:
Blessings.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

We need to be cautious of Science for some appear to be putting forth the new age christianity who interpret the Bible according to the occult, and evolution, and people are going to evolve to be spiritual, and Jesus became an ascended master among others, and there is no personal God but they honor the God of forces the power of nature, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher.

Science says the universe has a conscious which the biggest prophet Alice Baily wrote a book Consciousness of the Atom so the universe would appear to have intelligence but not a personal God.

They say we do not cease to exist after death, and the Bible is true.

They say that modern Science is giving the correct interpretation of the Bible by new discoveries giving them a new perspective of things and the Christians are interpreting the Bible wrong.

The new age believes in evolution but not according to the Darwinian viewpoint for they do not believe humans evolved from apes, but of the same lineage but broke away from them about 7 million years ago.

Science is saying that a new discovery puts the origins of people somewhere else and humans are not of the earth.

The new age believes aliens are going to help mankind to have peace, advance, and evolve, which they say return of the gods.

Science says they have proof of alien life, planets that humans can inhabit, and receiving laser messages from space.

I believe Science as an organization was set to to get people away from the Bible, and the belief in a God, and then give them the new age interpretation of the Bible.

They will use Science as a credible source to say the new age is the correct interpretation of the Bible.

They will use the Pope as a credible source as he goes along with the new age christianity pulling in atheists, people claiming Christianity, and all religions, and to harmonize left wing and right wing, say stop all wars, harmonize the people, as they gear the Catholic Church to be the one world religious system.

The United Nations supports new age organizations.

Pope Leo LVI is a Jesuit which they are connected to the Freemasons.

Alice Bailey said there is an inner circle and outer circle of the occult and the inner circle is the true church.

She was married to a Freemason who agreed with her occult teachings and Theosophy.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.

Alice Bailey was a Fundamental Christian but adapted an occult interpretation of the Bible given to her by a Tibetan Monk.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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#4
To summarize the essence of the above post:

A hammer is a tool so there’s no problem with using that since God gave us dominion and creativity in His image.

Worshipping of a hammer is a problem which starts from confusion in thinking you know more than God which is usually a sign of pride and arrogance.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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#5
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

We need to be cautious of Science for some appear to be putting forth the new age christianity who interpret the Bible according to the occult, and evolution, and people are going to evolve to be spiritual, and Jesus became an ascended master among others, and there is no personal God but they honor the God of forces the power of nature, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher.

Science says the universe has a conscious which the biggest prophet Alice Baily wrote a book Consciousness of the Atom so the universe would appear to have intelligence but not a personal God.

They say we do not cease to exist after death, and the Bible is true.

They say that modern Science is giving the correct interpretation of the Bible by new discoveries giving them a new perspective of things and the Christians are interpreting the Bible wrong.

The new age believes in evolution but not according to the Darwinian viewpoint for they do not believe humans evolved from apes, but of the same lineage but broke away from them about 7 million years ago.

Science is saying that a new discovery puts the origins of people somewhere else and humans are not of the earth.

The new age believes aliens are going to help mankind to have peace, advance, and evolve, which they say return of the gods.

Science says they have proof of alien life, planets that humans can inhabit, and receiving laser messages from space.

I believe Science as an organization was set to to get people away from the Bible, and the belief in a God, and then give them the new age interpretation of the Bible.

They will use Science as a credible source to say the new age is the correct interpretation of the Bible.

They will use the Pope as a credible source as he goes along with the new age christianity pulling in atheists, people claiming Christianity, and all religions, and to harmonize left wing and right wing, say stop all wars, harmonize the people, as they gear the Catholic Church to be the one world religious system.

The United Nations supports new age organizations.

Pope Leo LVI is a Jesuit which they are connected to the Freemasons.

Alice Bailey said there is an inner circle and outer circle of the occult and the inner circle is the true church.

She was married to a Freemason who agreed with her occult teachings and Theosophy.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.

Alice Bailey was a Fundamental Christian but adapted an occult interpretation of the Bible given to her by a Tibetan Monk.
Science means knowledge. Natural science seeks knowledge regarding how the physical world operates. The concern of the writers of Scripture is supernatural metaphysics and how mortals may be saved.
 
Jul 1, 2025
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#6
Tools like that paper help us to obey:

1 Peter 3:15
"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear"
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
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#7
Please support the paper by taking a look (will increase its visibility) and sharing it.
I don't think I could get drunk enough to read this entire paper. I wish mathematicians and scientists would hook up with fiction writers or historians so they would learn how to tell a story that connects with us lesser gifted folk. IDK, maybe I am the only one that has never heard of Tegmark’s Mathematical Universe Hypothesis; but it seems like this paper would take an absurd amount of time and effort to break down for the average Joe-Christian like myself. Is there a cool version of this paper?
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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#9
I don't think I could get drunk enough to read this entire paper. I wish mathematicians and scientists would hook up with fiction writers or historians so they would learn how to tell a story that connects with us lesser gifted folk. IDK, maybe I am the only one that has never heard of Tegmark’s Mathematical Universe Hypothesis; but it seems like this paper would take an absurd amount of time and effort to break down for the average Joe-Christian like myself. Is there a cool version of this paper?
Not sure, but I suspect it is about the miraculous truth that physics including chemistry can be expressed mathematically.
 
Jul 1, 2025
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#10
The Paper's Proofs Explained Simply
(Lizarazo, S. (2025). The Logical Necessity of an Eternal Dimension: Ontological Foundations Beyond Physical Reality. Zenodo. https://doi.org/10.5281/zenodo.15758303)

The Main Logical Proof

The Setup: 
Think of it like a chain of dependencies, like needing electricity to run a computer, needing a computer to run software, and needing software to display this text.

The Chain:
1 Universe (U) needs Math (M) - Any universe with laws needs mathematical structure to describe those laws
2 Math (M) needs Language (L) - Mathematical ideas only become usable when written in symbols and equations
3 Language (L) needs Consciousness (C) - Symbols are just meaningless marks until a mind interprets them

The Problem:
 Where do Math, Language, and Consciousness actually exist? They can't be inside the physical universe because:
• To locate math in space, you'd need to use math (circular!)
• To describe language physically, you'd need language (circular!)
• To find consciousness in the brain, you'd need consciousness to recognize it (circular!)

The Solution: 
They must exist in a separate, timeless dimension D (God) that's outside physical space and time (eternal).

The Proof:
1 If the universe is understandable, then consciousness must exist (to do the understanding, think about "I Am That I Am" in Exodus 3:14)
2 If consciousness exists, it can't be located in physical space (due to circularity)
3 Therefore, a non-physical dimension must exist to house consciousness
4 Since math and language are also needed and face the same circularity problem, they're in this dimension too

The Four Physics "Stress Tests"
These are independent arguments from modern physics that all point to the same conclusion:
1. Cosmic Expansion Proof
Simple Version: Space itself expands faster than light, but nothing in space can go faster than light. Whatever allows space to expand must therefore be outside space - in the timeless dimension.
2. Quantum Entanglement Proof
Simple Version: Quantum particles can be instantly connected across any distance. Since nothing can travel faster than light through space, these connections must go through something outside space - the timeless dimension.
3. Information Theory Proof
Simple Version: Physical systems can only hold limited information, but mathematics requires infinite precision. The "extra" precision must be stored somewhere outside physical reality - in the timeless dimension.
4. Quantum Measurement Proof
Simple Version: Quantum mechanics says particles exist in multiple states until observed. The act of observation requires consciousness, which must therefore be fundamental rather than just brain activity.
Why the Proofs Work
The Elimination Strategy: 
Each proof works by showing that the alternative explanations don't work:
• Can't be emergent from matter: Would require using math/language/consciousness to explain how matter creates math/language/consciousness (circular)
• Can't be just human constructs: Math works the same for everyone and describes reality perfectly (too reliable to be invented)
• Can't be located in physical space: Would require the very things we're trying to locate in order to do the locating
The Positive Evidence:
• We actually do understand the universe (so the chain U→M→L→C must work)
• Physics reveals phenomena that transcend spacetime limitations
• Consciousness exhibits properties that can't be reduced to brain activity alone
The Regress Problem Solution
The Challenge: If consciousness needs interpretation, doesn't that need meta-consciousness, which needs meta-meta-consciousness, etc.?
The Solution: The consciousness in the timeless dimension isn't the kind that needs interpretation - it's the capacity for interpretation itself. It's like asking "what sees the eye?" - the eye doesn't see itself, it's the condition that makes seeing possible.
What Makes These Proofs Strong
1 Multiple Independent Routes: Four different areas of physics all lead to the same conclusion
2 Eliminates Alternatives: Shows why other explanations fail rather than just asserting a new one
3 Uses Minimal Assumptions: Only assumes we can understand physics at all
4 Addresses Objections: Handles the main counterarguments systematically
The overall strategy is: "If you deny the timeless dimension exists, you can't explain how we understand physics at all - but we obviously do understand physics, so the timeless dimension must exist."


In a nutshell, the paper shows an Eternal Consciousness has to exist (God), which allows the universe and us to exist.
Following the proof, the book reaches to what we already new from the Scripture. It worth reading it (The Eternal Dimension: The Reason Before Reality).
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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#11
This article was very interesting to read.
It highlights some of the points that i believe in too.

* Be at peace with God's mysteries.
* Human Language itself is inadequate to describe God in full.
* Have Faith.
* Forgive
* Grow in wisdom

And aligned with point number 2, they also gave it the worst possible title for a Christian news site.


https://www.christianpost.com/voices/is-a-relationship-with-god-delusional.html
 
Jul 28, 2017
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#12
1. Cosmic Expansion Proof
Simple Version: Space itself expands faster than light, but nothing in space can go faster than light. Whatever allows space to expand must therefore be outside space - in the timeless dimension.
Since the expanse called heaven was created in the beginning, what do you think is the substance that formed the expanse? (seeing that it is expanding)
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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#15
Doesn't "eternal" describe God in full?
It doesn't.
In fact this describes your length of time in responses and your inability to answer questions when i asked you a question almost a year ago.
But definitely doesn't describe God in full.

But you can box Him in one word if you like. If it helps you, than that's fine.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#16
It doesn't.
In fact this describes your length of time in responses and your inability to answer questions when i asked you a question almost a year ago.
But definitely doesn't describe God in full.

But you can box Him in one word if you like. If it helps you, than that's fine.
No it isn't, because there is no way boxing in God can be helpful, Eli!
You make me :ROFL: