LOLOL , That's what wouldn't meet the criteria .. But I know of a bunch that think so
Born Again
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Not exactly..what I'm saying is that the man with a heart of stone will ALWAYS reject God, and the man with a heart of flesh will ALWAYS respond in faith and repentance.
And, God is the one who gives the heart of flesh.
All I did was be willing to change believe, confess and repent ..
God made you willing by giving you a heart of flesh. That produced faith and repentance.
Free willers have it backwards.
By the way, I'm guessing 80 percent of the people on this site are free-willers. Many of the Reformed people have been run off.
Notice the trickery of this guy:
Matthew 22:1-14
1 And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, 2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, 3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.”’ 5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
(ESV)
Notice that he stopped short of giving the verse that would refute his position (v. 14)
I believe he did it intentionally..and that's the sort of thing the cult I belonged to did.
By the way, Reformed people believe that the gospel call goes out to ALL, because those who are elect don't have a special marking on them that identifies them as such.
Yet, they know that only the elect will respond, and why?
Because they are CHOSEN. And, the rest are NOT.
Anyways, it takes a really blind person to read the Bible, and deny that election is true, and you really can't read the New Testament very long without seeing that it teaches election.
In fact, the doctrine of being born again proves this...it requires a new birth to see the kingdom of God. You can't become a believer without this new birth.
In fact, you are spiritually dead and walking blind until you are born again, or made alive, by the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 2:1-11
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
(ESV)
I think you got it backwards and you feel some reason to deny it ....
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
There's nothing that conflicts with my position there.
It says "to us-ward", and is talking about those the letter is addressed to, who are believers.
This is talking about those who the letter is addressed to, which are the elect believers in the church who have already obtained salvation.
So, he wants all the believers to come to repentance, and that might even include current believers who are dwelling in sin and need to be conformed to the image of Jesus before their death.
Repentance is not a one-time thing. Additionally, even if it were, there could be individuals within the congregation which had not been regenerated yet.
One thing is sure, though, the Bible teaches that election is a true doctrine. It also teaches that the believer needs to be born-again, and he doesn't cause his own birth anymore than a child causes their own birth. This idea is absurd.
I’m not sure I agree with you completely sir, there are too many verses that explain predestination. However, there are also many, as you said that show the desire of God that all be saved, and propitiation was made for all who believe... It’s a head scratcher for me at this point, one perhaps we’ll not completely understand until glorified.
One thing I do know, less we be born again of water and spirit, we will not enter. What does this mean? Ezekiel 36 God explains He will sprinkle clean water, He will give a new heart and He will place a new Spirit within and cause you to walk in His statutes... A beautiful image of the new birth.
in John 14 Jesus answers Judas (not Iscariot) If a man loves Jesus he will keep His words: and my Father will love him, the Father and Jesus will come and make abode within that man.
Many other verses of course but the amazing fact of the new birth is the Holy Trinity embodies the saved, this is new birth. What must we do to be saved? Acts2 repent, be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit.
The Father, the Son and the Spirit are one. He comes on his own accord for His own glory to those He chooses and that person becomes one with God. Amazing.
I was a professing believer for over 20 years before I was born again, before I truly became Christian. You’ll know it when the God of creation abides in you, it’s unmistakable.
If you’re reading this and you’re not sure if new birth has occurred I just encourage you to ask, ask with all your heart. Our God is not a God of confusion, if you are saved and seek assurance and confidence He will answer. 1 John is an amazing book for assurance and test.
Forgive my verse paraphrasing
And none of them are about salvation, but being predestined for the future adoption. The people are already saved.
Same old tired arguments about those seeking to deny God his sovereignty.
I am not sure if you are talking about corporate election, but that is Karl Barth's doctrine. He spent the last years of his life living with his wife and secretary, being intimately involved with both. The love letters have been recently published, and I don't see a saved man involved in such activities. Besides that, he denied the inerrancy of Scripture and claimed it had contradictions.
But, regarding whether God elects people to salvation, it is apparent that he does, and the argument that election is only a corporate election or election to service is an error.
Here is an example, where God says that he chose specific individuals with few redeeming characteristics for salvation:
1 Corinthians 1:26-31
26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
(ESV)
Why did he choose these individuals, with characteristics that were not admirable? To make his glory more apparent. He is like the star athlete who picks the worst players for his team, so that his glory can be displayed more apparently. He does not tolerate boasting.
Note that they are chosen to be in Christ, and that this includes righteousness, sanctification and redemption..SALVATION WORDS.
I don't know how it can be any more apparent, yet the same guys on this site keep claiming the same stuff.
If you want to talk predestination, at least post the verses that has the word in it.
Some folks aren't willing to give up their riches , their freewill choice .. Riches come in many different forms imo ..
You just nailed in the head sir! He has to put a passage of verses and let's talk about it. Not just a mere opinion just for nothing.
Hey brother, I love your posts but I'd like to share why I believe "born of water" is = to "born of flesh"....
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(Jesus is using physical birth as an earthly example to help the spiritually blind nicodemus see His point)
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
(again Nicodemus is unable to understand this spiritual lesson even with an earthly example of birth so he uses his earthly reasoning to question Jesus about being born of flesh two times)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(still speaking of brith and trying to relate the two.... born of water = anatomical fluid =born of flesh and born of the Spirit = when God makes His children new)
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(again further explaining the two births.... born of flesh/born of water = natural birth Spirit = born of God)
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again......
God is not willing that any 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance ..
Jesus died on the cross once for some or once for all ? Is God a respecter of persons ?
And those spoiled brats I've heard say over and over ''I didn't ask to be born'' can slit their wrists any time they want is what I tell those who throw it up in my face, 100% bluff so far ..
My New Birth came when I realized all the millions of folks could not be that wrong that came and willing to die for Jesus sake, that the witness and testimony of others before me must have something I didn't .. I listened and made a choice for Jesus one day .... And how many folks go to hell because we refuse to witness Jesus to them ..
So true brother, we should witness more. Have to learn the word to spread the word, I said that a lot when I was born again. What part of the Bible are you in right now? I just finished 2 Chronicles this morning, reading through the OT right now. But boy I miss the NT, so I sneak over and read the book of John or something once in a while.