Born Again Speaking in Tongues

[mailmandan]

You and others keep on declaring that salvation is given simply only on believing in Jesus Christ and calvary.

Salvation is given simply on believing in Jesus Christ for salvation. (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 11:17; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 John 5:13 etc..). It's not hard to understand. Just hard for you to ACCEPT because you TRUST IN WORKS and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE for salvation.

Yet in the NT, especially in Acts and the epistles, believing is described and presented as putting repentance into action and
becoming obedient to the commandments of Jesus:

You are confusing the fruit of repentance and believing with the essence of repentance and believing. Believing in Christ unto salvation is faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. Obedience which follows is works. Just like other works-salvationists, you try to "shoe horn" works "into" believing and do not understand the difference.

believing in Jesus is to believe in what must I do to be saved

That question was asked in Acts 16:30 and the answer found in Acts 16:31 is -- "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household." Notice the answer was NOT - Believe, get baptized, speak in tongues, accomplish a check list of works, just through a set of hoops etc.. and then you will be saved.

repentance > water baptism by full immersion confessing one's faith in Jesus as Lord and Saviour for the remission of sins;
to be accompanied by the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues; to walk with the Lord and to
display the fruit of the Spirit.

Repentance precedes believing unto salvation. Faith and confession are not two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together (Romans 10:8-11). Water baptism "follows" repentance/faith/remission of sins/receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9) Speaking in tongues is "an" evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit (for those who have received that spiritual gift) but it's not "the" evidence for all (1 Corinthians 12). Walking with the Lord and displaying the fruit of the Spirit "follows" having been saved through faith in Jesus Christ.

You can trash, you can berate, you can make all manner of false accusations against Pentecost and in particular - The Revival
Fellowship - but at each meeting when the gift of prophecy is given and God speaks to his children both the Father and Jesus
confirm their great pleasure in a church that wrangles not with the scriptures and is fully obedient to his commandments.

Perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is not being fully obedient to His commandments. Spiritual gifts were given for a reason and are not to be abused and misused to exalt a movement.

Obedience is not works.

Obedience which follows saving faith in Christ IS WORKS. (Ephesians 2:10) Multiple acts of obedience which follows saving faith in Christ IS WORKS and we are not saved by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

The full gospel of salvation is not a perversion of the gospel.

The "full" gospel? People who pervert the gospel by "adding" works to it usually call it the "full" gospel. I've heard Roman Catholics and Mormons use that term. Mormons actually "add" the book of Mormon to the Bible and call it the "fullness" of the gospel.

 

[Wansvic]

There is a reason for that.

Paul was questioning them in order to obtain their status. Paul does not infallibly know their hearts, hence the question. Again, Paul asked them in Acts 19:2 if they had received the Holy Spirit when they believed (assuming they believed) yet their answer in verse 3 reveals that they were not yet believers in Jesus. They had received the baptism of John but did not realize that Jesus Christ was the One to whom John's baptism pointed. Paul gave them instructions about Jesus.

Acts 19:4 - Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Why would they be baptized all over again if they already believed in Jesus and were saved?

After believing Paul's presentation of the gospel, they came to saving faith in Christ and were afterwards baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Paul laid hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit (which was not the case in Acts 2 and Acts 10). *Exception, not the rule. This signified their inclusion into the church and the purpose was to emphasize unity in the church. Keep in mind that Acts is a transitional book and this is an early stage of the church. The laying on of hands signified their inclusion into the church. Apostles were also present when the Samaritans (chapter 8) were included. The Jews despised the Samaritans! God's purpose was to emphasize unity in the church.

*Elsewhere we clearly see that those who believe receive the Holy Spirit. (John 7:38-39; Acts 10:43-47; 11:17; 15:8,9; Ephesians 1:13)

One's spiritual eyes must be open to comprehend what the bible states. And I see by your response that you refuse to accept what the scripture actually states or just choose to overlook it.

Paul knew the Holy Ghost was not automatically received when one believes the gospel; thus the question. This concept is clearly seen in the Samaritan account as well. Philip presented the gospel to the Samaritans. They believed the gospel and the name of Jesus and were water baptized in Jesus name. Later Peter and John were sent to pray for them in order for them to receive the Holy Ghost.

 

[Absolutely]

15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Mark 16:

Yep,the gospel with signs following.
Straight from Jesus.

"These signs shall follow...(those that are mine)..."
Uh oh.
Who are his?

Double oh oh.

The fakes?
Fake cessationists?
Too funny

 

[mailmandan]

One's spiritual eyes must be open to comprehend what the bible states. And I see by your response that you refuse to accept what the scripture actually states or just choose to overlook it.

Paul knew the Holy Ghost was not automatically received when one believes the gospel; thus the question. This concept is clearly seen in the Samaritan account as well. Philip presented the gospel to the Samaritans. They believed the gospel and the name of Jesus and were water baptized in Jesus name. Later Peter and John were sent to pray for them in order for them to receive the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.

You are trying to turn an exception into the rule for the sake of your biased church doctrine. Why do you suppose receiving the Holy Spirit was delayed for these Samaritans until Peter and John laid hands on them? You continue to overlook that.

 

[Footprint]

I have not rejected Colossians 3:17 (more slander) but you have rejected Matthew 28:19 which was stated by Jesus -- by the authority of His name. You refuse His authority over reciting His name in a specific way as a formula for salvation. You are deceived.

And yet you still refuse his name, continuing to choose authority in the titles Father, Son, Holy Ghost. It looks like you have rejected Colossians 3:17.

You mentioned slander. Does the truth hurt, is it hard for you to kick against the pricks? The Lord is reaching out to you and you don't even realize it.


God bless!

 

[mailmandan]

And yet you still refuse his name, continuing to choose authority in the titles Father, Son, Holy Ghost. It looks like you have rejected Colossians 3:17.

You mentioned slander. Does the truth hurt, is it hard for you to kick against the pricks? The Lord is reaching out to you and you don't even realize it.

God bless!

What you present is not the truth, but slander. I’m really not interested in your slander or your false doctrine.

Once again, the specific words, "in Jesus name" is not a reference to a baptismal formula to obtain salvation, but is a reference to authority. Jesus Himself specifically tells us to baptize “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (n Matthew 28:19) which is baptizing by His authority. Why do you continue to reject His authority?

 

[Wansvic]

1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.

You are trying to turn an exception into the rule for the sake of your biased church doctrine. Why do you suppose receiving the Holy Spirit was delayed for these Samaritans until Peter and John laid hands on them? You continue to overlook that.

Whether you choose to accept it or not Paul's question makes it clear that the infilling of the Holy Ghost does not occur the moment one believes. Also, Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?" confirms that something happens upon being filled with the Holy Ghost allowing for no doubt that the infilling has occurred.

 

[garee]

You and others keep on declaring that salvation is given simply only on believing in Jesus Christ and calvary.
Yet in the NT, especially in Acts and the epistles, believing is described and presented as putting repentance into action and
becoming obedient to the commandments of Jesus:
believing in Jesus is to believe in what must I do to be saved ...
repentance > water baptism by full immersion confessing one's faith in Jesus as Lord and Saviour for the remission of sins;
to be accompanied by the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues; to walk with the Lord and to
display the fruit of the Spirit.

You can trash, you can berate, you can make all manner of false accusations against Pentecost and in particular - The Revival
Fellowship - but at each meeting when the gift of prophecy is given and God speaks to his children both the Father and Jesus
confirm their great pleasure in a church that wrangles not with the scriptures and is fully obedient to his commandments.
Obedience is not works.
The full gospel of salvation is not a perversion of the gospel.

Is it fully obedient to the law of tongues in respect to the sign? The foundation as a commandment is found in Isaiah 28. Will you obey it?

In all cases God must do the first works .No man can repent (comfort oneself) unless God first turns them . Repentance is not a sign gift. Just as fallen backward indicating a person is under the judgment of God . Because they destroyed the foundation of the law (Isaiah 28)

"Spiritual gifts" not seen are not signs, literally seen . Signs used as metaphors follow the unseen work of God . Prophecy leads the true believer.

You are simply offering another gospel another mediator other than scripture alone. As those, yet for all that prophecy declared of the Holy Spirit not seen they still will not look to the foundation of the doctrine. They love the bells and whistles rather than walking by faith (the unseen Holy place of God)

When looking at the law interpreted in 1 Corinthian 14:22-23 . Its easy to see what the sign confirms. Once the sign is confirmed then the rest of the doctrine completes the mystery made known by faith (the unseen eternal).

Signs as wonderment seekers seek after the temporal.(seen).

Jesus says they have received their reward of self edification (pride)

As a sign its easy to see what it confirm (un-belief, no faith, no eternal). When putting on the 20/20 prescription it becomes crystal clear .

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen "are temporal"; but the things which are not seen "are eternal."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This lady in my prayer group had seen something some years ago in the Holy Ghost, that there were Christians who thought they were saved but were actually lost and she wept heavily at the look in their eyes when they found they did not make it, this was a look of terror.

Dan, I ask you to please consider and weigh all the biblical evidence that has been brought to your attention.

With the love of Christ,
God bless!

How does she know this was the HS, And not just some day dream.

Jesus spoke of people who thought they were saved, But will nto make it (he will say depart from him for he never knew them)

Who were those people?

They were people who thought they were saved by means of their works and good deeds.

Those are the people (like you and others here) who need to be scared.

 

[Wansvic]

What you present is not the truth, but slander. I’m really not interested in your slander or your false doctrine.

Once again, the specific words, "in Jesus name" is not a reference to a baptismal formula to obtain salvation, but is a reference to authority. Jesus Himself specifically tells us to baptize “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (n Matthew 28:19) which is baptizing by His authority. Why do you continue to reject His authority?

As you are probably aware, water baptisms were administered in Jesus name from the apostolic era until 325 a.d. when the titles replaced the usage of Jesus' name. This truth is witnessed in many, many historical encyclopedias, etc. Unbeknownst to many churches and their members in administering baptism using the titles they are following a man made tradition.
As recorded in the bible and throughout history men have continually fault others in pursuit of removing the all powerful name of Jesus from prayer, water baptism, etc.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"believe in the name of the Son of God" - And, what is the name of the Son that you do not believe in? Notice "Son" is not a name, and yet your so willing to be baptized without his name!

Really? a member of the bride who refused to take on the name of the husband.

God bless!

Believe and baptise are two different words. Why is it you all insist we must insert the word baptize every time we see believe?

I had faith in the name of the son of God, and like the tax collector. And like Paul said in romans, Called out on the name of the lord to be saved.

And his holy spirit baptized me into himself. (Spirit baptism)

Why do you insist we replace spirit baptism with water? Is not th baptism from God himself more powerful than some sinner immersing you in water?

 

[wolfwint]

You and others keep on declaring that salvation is given simply only on believing in Jesus Christ and calvary.
Yet in the NT, especially in Acts and the epistles, believing is described and presented as putting repentance into action and
becoming obedient to the commandments of Jesus:
believing in Jesus is to believe in what must I do to be saved ...
repentance > water baptism by full immersion confessing one's faith in Jesus as Lord and Saviour for the remission of sins;
to be accompanied by the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues; to walk with the Lord and to
display the fruit of the Spirit.

You can trash, you can berate, you can make all manner of false accusations against Pentecost and in particular - The Revival
Fellowship - but at each meeting when the gift of prophecy is given and God speaks to his children both the Father and Jesus
confirm their great pleasure in a church that wrangles not with the scriptures and is fully obedient to his commandments.
Obedience is not works.
The full gospel of salvation is not a perversion of the gospel.

With this we are along with the word of God.
You are coming along with an teaching which is not find in bible and appears in the beginning of the 20th century. Even, according in your country before 1908 this was not taught.
And is it not a wonder that all this teachings began with people which were influenced ore in touch with the Keswick convention. Which leads then to Topeka and Azusa.
Your are defending and believing a man made doctrine which is lead from any Spirit, but not the Holy Spirit.
Do you think healings, tongues and miracles coming only from God?
And what could lead believers away from God, if not an powerful, biblical lookslike movement.
Waggles why we cant find this teaching taught in the bible? No ever doubt?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Soshare the documentation of all this. You made the claim.
And by the way you did refer to "true believers" so that would limit your case studies to Pentecostal Christians who stand on
faith in Mark 16:

If I was limited to that. That no one would be saved, Because they certainly do not have faith in God. They have faith in their works, and like we have witnessed from you. BOAST of it all the time.


The words not of works LEST ONE WOULD BOAST Proves your church is not a true church of God.

 

[garee]

Thankyou
for wisdom is one of the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed to members of our Pentecostal church for the edification of
the body of Christ.
Wisdom and knowledge and discerning between spirits …
the Pentecostal church is not just about speaking in an unknown tongue but having the blessings of these nine gifts working
within the congregation.
And when the prophets speak it is the wisdom and love of God that we directly hear from above.

When a prophet speaks the "new tongue" according to the Pentecost definition.? Or one that comes with understanding like at Pentecost where 3000 in the twinkling of the eye.... heard the word of their salvation, the gospel.The "new tongue" to the believer is the gospel it , as a metaphor( new tongue) it follows the work of God working in us by which we can believe Him who remains without form

Looks like you could be preaching another gospel, a mystery not made know by our mediator Christ.

We must continue to mix faith in what we hear or see (Hebrews 4:2) Those who did not mix faith do not enter the sabbath rest to do have when we do not harden our hearts. Our imputed righteousness, God makes the heart of those soft when they do mix. (the literal seen with the spiritual not seen) That is how I understand in a hope of being heard on high.

It would seem that the generation of Adam evil (no blessing of grace) dead in their trespasses and sin without Faith of God, that alone comes by hearing his voice. They were required to walk by sight. Blind to the things of the Spirit of God. They are reckoned as having no faith(not little but none) by which they could hear God .God calls them a forward nation.

God's witness is not seen by the temporal things of this world . Only God not seen is good.

I would suggest we must be careful on how we hear , our teacher, comforter and guide. Who also brings to our minds that which he has taught us

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. (the sign of the gospel )

 

[notuptome]

Whether you choose to accept it or not Paul's question makes it clear that the infilling of the Holy Ghost does not occur the moment one believes. Also, Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?" confirms that something happens upon being filled with the Holy Ghost allowing for no doubt that the infilling has occurred.

Paul taught the exact opposite of what you say. Ephesians chapter 2 is quite clear that the quickening of the Holy Spirit is the new birth in Christ received by grace through faith. Faith is received by hearing the word of God again Paul writing in Romans chapter 10.

The gospel is simple and readily understood by those who are being brought to Christ by the Holy Spirit. We come to Christ because we are drawn to Him by the Holy Spirit at God the Father's will.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Yep,the gospel with signs following.
Straight from Jesus.

"These signs shall follow...(those that are mine)..."
Uh oh.
Who are his?

Double oh oh.

The fakes?
Fake cessationists?
Too funny

You will be judged by how you judge others.

Psalm 2:1 ¶ Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

With this we are along with the word of God.
You are coming along with an teaching which is not find in bible and appears in the beginning of the 20th century. Even, according in your country before 1908 this was not taught.
And is it not a wonder that all this teachings began with people which were influenced ore in touch with the Keswick convention. Which leads then to Topeka and Azusa.
Your are defending and believing a man made doctrine which is lead from any Spirit, but not the Holy Spirit.
Do you think healings, tongues and miracles coming only from God?
And what could lead believers away from God, if not an powerful, biblical lookslike movement.
Waggles why we cant find this teaching taught in the bible? No ever doubt?

I would think if we would attribute the unseen work of the Spirit of Christ to "human touch" as if God was served by the corruptible .Then we could rename the apostles as gods in the likeness of man .Barnabas.... Jupiter/Zeus; ( the greatest of gods to represent the father.) and Paul, Mercurius "the speaker". A counterfeit picture of the Father and Son working together

God is not a man as us.

Preaching the gospel began the good work that worked in the person who was lame. One of the metaphors used in parables to represent the power of God, raising a person to newness of life walking by faith leaping for joy . Leaping another word synonymous of the gospel that worked in a person . A example below.

Luke 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Song of Solomon 2:8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

Acts 3:8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God

The context as a example. (Acts14)

And there they preached the gospel. Acts14:7

The gospel power of God unto salvation and healing . (not the human touch corrupted hands) As always he must do the first work as our Faithful Creator. .

Note... (purple in parenthesis) my addition as a personal bias, opinion.

And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,Said with a loud voice, (the voice of God) Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the (faithless ) people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.Then the priest of Jupiter( to represent the father as Zeus.) , which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out ,Acts 14:8-14

No familiarity at all with the things seen the temporal. . The reason he rained "manna" when things got lukewarm (What is it)? God is not a man as us. He remains without form or a beginning of Spirit life.

 

[Wansvic]

Paul taught the exact opposite of what you say. Ephesians chapter 2 is quite clear that the quickening of the Holy Spirit is the new birth in Christ received by grace through faith. Faith is received by hearing the word of God again Paul writing in Romans chapter 10.

The gospel is simple and readily understood by those who are being brought to Christ by the Holy Spirit. We come to Christ because we are drawn to Him by the Holy Spirit at God the Father's will.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Your comment still does not change the fact of what Paul's question conveys in the Acts 19:1-6 account. Denial of what scripture clearly shows is not wise.

 

[garee]

Absolutely said:


Yep,the gospel with signs following.
Straight from Jesus. "These signs shall follow...(those that are mine)..."
Uh oh.
Who are his?

Double oh oh.

The fakes?
Fake cessationists?
Too funny

My wife says its only funny when two people lagh and if you grin you are in. Lol

The entrance sign "Chicago 19 miles ahead " The sign you are there . "2 miles per hour " (when moving) The sign that follows "You have just left Chicago . 90 miles to Milwaukee .

Signs as metaphors in that historically true parable . Not the unseen spiritual substance the Holy Spirit of God the giver of the unseen gift. Poison represents false doctrine . The foundation to the doctrine of tongues is found in Isaiah 28 . What does it say? Is it poison?

Real cessationists? It seems some think so it would seem they fall backward slain by the Holy Spirit to verify or confirm something?

 

[Wansvic]

If I was limited to that. That no one would be saved, Because they certainly do not have faith in God. They have faith in their works, and like we have witnessed from you. BOAST of it all the time.


The words not of works LEST ONE WOULD BOAST Proves your church is not a true church of God.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26