Bible Vs Scientism

[MichaelBoll]

So - you see 'planets' as simply "wandering stars" (other stars) in the firmament?

Sorry, I spaced off the "where" part of your question. Yes Gary, I see the seven wandering stars as stars that transgressed their God-appointed circuits, but remain in the firmament, running their own circuits until their time for punishment arrives.

 

[MichaelBoll]

Just imagine - if they had never done so - there would be no "planets" upon which such extraordinary misinformation campaigns could be created and promoted...

And imagine if Adam and Eve had just said no. Or if Satan's angels had just told him no when he stirred up a rebellion against God. So many different paths this world could have taken. 🤔

 

[MichaelBoll]

Have you see the high-altitude balloon video with the close sun and the sunspot directly below it?

Absolutely! Blows your mind - and the heliocentric model out of the water.



How can a huge sun 93 million miles away, the light from which is said to hit the earth in parallel rays and evenly, produce this effect?

 

[GaryA]

And imagine if Adam and Eve had just said no. Or if Satan's angels had just told him no when he stirred up a rebellion against God. So many different paths this world could have taken. 🤔

"Just say no to forbidden fruit!"

 

[GaryA]

Absolutely! Blows your mind - and the heliocentric model out of the water.

View attachment 241759

How can a huge sun 93 million miles away, the light from which is said to hit the earth in parallel rays and evenly, produce this effect?

Yes, indeed.

But I have a question for you...

From the position and perspective of the camera - if the sun is in the 'solid dome firmament' as you describe it, how can the sun be seen where it is and the sunspot be seen directly below it?

 

[MichaelBoll]

Yes, indeed.

But I have a question for you...

From the position and perspective of the camera - if the sun is in the 'solid dome firmament' as you describe it, how can the sun be seen where it is and the sunspot be seen directly below it?

I don't understand. The balloon is not in the firmament, and the sun is above the balloon, right? Please elaborate.
Btw, it's not me that describes heaven as a solid dome firmament, but the Bible.

 

[Dino246]

I have made no such implication - nor would I have reason to considering that you just said you don't consider Darwinian evolution to be science at all.

I have only asked a simple question. If common descent evolution is not science at all (as you rightly point out), then what name do WE give the so-called "evolutionary scientists" who promote this lame-brained idea?

I call them Priests of Scientism, and I call those who believe their unscientific conclusions on blind faith members of the Cult of Scientism.

But what about you? If the "science" they practice isn't science at all, then we can't rightly consider them "scientists", can we? So what then do you call these people who simply parrot the nonsense that their instructors have parroted to them?

You can call them whatever you like, but I have no obligation to use the same terms, nor to agree that your terms are appropriate, nor to use any terms in particular. Perhaps "deceived" would be appropriate... as is everyone who rejects Jesus Christ.

 

[MichaelBoll]

Hey @Jocund , what happened to you?

 

[MichaelBoll]

While I anxiously await the possible return of @Jocund , I want to thank all of you who helped me make (and more importantly, HONE) my Biblical case here. That especially goes for the many who ran away from the discussion defeated (Magenta, Dino, Gideon, Eli, etc), because your initial arguments drove me to delve deeper into the topic to refute those arguments - and that is exactly what I was after.

Now I take the topic to yet another Christian forum, where I can spread Biblical truth, and where its members will hopefully challenge me to delve even deeper into it than you guys did. So I sincerely thank you all.

God bless ChristianChat and all of you who participated.

 

[Dino246]

While I anxiously await the possible return of @Jocund , I want to thank all of you who helped me make (and more importantly, HONE) my Biblical case here. That especially goes for the many who ran away from the discussion defeated (Magenta, Dino, Gideon, Eli, etc)

You bleed arrogance and folly. Nobody has run from the discussion defeated; we just have better things to do.

 

[Dirtman]

"Science" hasnt always been the realm of atheists. Ancient scientists, many of them, were Christians. To this day there are indeed scientists who are Christian. Sure enough many of them are other religions such as evolutionists and atheists, Science and Theology and religion are different disciplines and are not opposites. That is a lie created by those who oppose Christianity. Now much like many religions that pose as Christianity there are religions that pose as science.
I'm sure all of you have been to a doctor (if not my bad) so while we dont trust them to say evolution we trust them to set a bone, and sew up a wound, and some even to prescribe medications.
We are all engaging this forum via computer science. So lets not get ahead of ourselves in making one discipline opposed to the other. Lets recognize what is what, and put them in their proper place.

 

[MichaelBoll]

So lets not get ahead of ourselves in making one discipline opposed to the other. Lets recognize what is what, and put them in their proper place.

Amen. Which is exactly why I've repeatedly distinguished "science" from "Scientism" in this thread. There is absolutely NOTHING in the entire realm of science that refutes the Bible. And you are right, there are now thousands of bonafide scientists who argue from the actual evidence that the Bible has been right all along. I've followed the great scientists from ICR, AiG, CMI, and many other Christian organizations for years. Many of those scientists gave up lucrative positions in Scientism because they could no longer remain on board with all the lies that go against the actual scientific evidence.

That is a lie created by those who oppose Christianity.

Amen. Real science has never opposed Christianity or the Bible. And that was the entire point of this thread... to let fellow Christians know that they don't have to perform mental gymnastics in an attempt to force the Bible into agreeing with big bang/deep time/evolution nonsense, because none of that crap is even real. It is merely a fairy tale for grownups that is taught by the priests of the religion of Scientism.

Thanks for your post, Dirtman.

 

[MichaelBoll]

You bleed arrogance and folly. Nobody has run from the discussion defeated; we just have better things to do.

You always seem to have time to make condescending ad hominem attacks. Interesting that you don't have any time to have even a cursory discussion about that Red Bull jump from "the edge of space".

But I still thank you, because if not for you and Magenta, I wouldn't have stumbled across that info, and wouldn't have been making a YouTube video about it. I'll post the link here when I upload it.

 

[Dino246]

You always seem to have time to make condescending ad hominem attacks. Interesting that you don't have any time to have even a cursory discussion about that Red Bull jump from "the edge of space".

But I still thank you, because if not for you and Magenta, I wouldn't have stumbled across that info, and wouldn't have been making a YouTube video about it. I'll post the link here when I upload it.

Condescending? Wow.

I have been a bit busy in the last month.

I read the article; it doesn't support your position at all... likely because you continually make arguments rooted in ignorance of basic physics (as well as being devoid of scriptural foundation).

 

[MichaelBoll]

I read the article; it doesn't support your position at all...

The article claimed that if Felix were to have spoken from that altitude, it would make no sound because the air molecules were few and far between. Is that an accurate paraphrase?

 

[Dino246]

The article claimed that if Felix were to have spoken from that altitude, it would make no sound because the air molecules were few and far between. Is that an accurate paraphrase?

No, it is not even remotely an accurate paraphrase.

The article was describing the environment outside. Baumgartner was inside a properly-prepared suit which protected him from the harsh environment.

That aside, what is your point?

 

[MichaelBoll]

Joshua 6:2-15… Then Yahweh said to Joshua… March around the city once with all the armed men. Do this for six days… On the seventh day, march around the city seven times…

IS GOD TALKING TO JOSHUA ABOUT SIX LITERAL DAYS FOLLOWED BY A SEVENTH LITERAL DAY? YES OR NO?

Exodus 20:9-11… Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to Yahweh your God. On it you shall not do any work…

IS GOD TALKING TO MOSES AND THE ISRAELITES ABOUT SIX LITERAL DAYS FOLLOWED BY A SEVENTH LITERAL DAY? YES OR NO?

Exodus 20:11… For in six days Yahweh made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.

IS GOD TALKING TO MOSES AND THE ISRAELITES ABOUT SIX LITERAL DAYS FOLLOWED BY A SEVENTH LITERAL DAY? YES OR NO?

 

[GaryA]

YES
YES
YES

 

[GaryA]

I don't understand. The balloon is not in the firmament, and the sun is above the balloon, right? Please elaborate.

After thinking about it further, I have come up with a scenario whereby such a view might be possible.

So - "nevermind"...

 

[GaryA]

Btw, it's not me that describes heaven as a solid dome firmament, but the Bible.

We shall see...

That especially goes for the many who ran away from the discussion defeated (Magenta, Dino, Gideon, Eli, etc), ...

This is pride talking - better to not make statements to provoke people - just make your case and let it speak for itself.

Pride is a loud talker. However, truth speaks much louder. And, people listen to very little when/while offended.

It is more effective to encourage your brother/sister while speaking the truth. You should know this already.

I have been a bit busy in the last month.

I myself have not spent as much time on CC lately as before. You have to allow folks some time to catch up. Real life happens.

(This is not a reply to you directly Dino; rather, I am using it to make a point to Michael in particular and the crowd in general.)