Believing on his name

[HeIsHere]

And that gift is FULL of blessings and tools and logistical grace for us to utilize to advance in His plan for us.

Salvation/justification~~equal privilege equal opportunity.

Sanctification ~~equal privilege equal opportunity.

Glorification~~ ALL believers will be glorified. But rank and reign is based upon how we utilized all He gave us in time.....

2 Tim 2:12
If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He will also deny us;

Thank you, makes my heart sing!

 

[Kroogz]

Thank you, makes my heart sing!

Mine also. But the dark side and very important point is......Loss of salvation DENIES Him.

Many well meaning and dedicated believers are working for wood, hay and stubble. My heart is for them to see the light. They are saved. Stamped and sealed with eternal life. It's kicking against the goads to think otherwise.

 

[Kroogz]

Thank you, makes my heart sing!

And Thank You! Many wonderful posts!

 

[Beckworth]

No contradiction. So, when will you BELIEVE?

That’s not an explanation or an answer to anything. That’s just a DODGE. I can only suppose you can’t answer how “preaching can save those who are suppose to have already been saved at the point of faith. It’. IS a problem, isn’t it?

 

[mailmandan]

That’s not an explanation or an answer to anything. That’s just a DODGE. I can only suppose you can’t answer how “preaching can save those who are suppose to have already been saved at the point of faith. It’.IS a problem, isn’t it?

That was neither a dodge or a problem. You seem to have misinterpreted 1 Corinthians 1:18-21. The preaching of the cross already saved those who believe. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) But the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who refuse to believe. The apostle Paul explains why people do not believe. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) So, I will ask you once again. When will you BELIEVE?

 

[mailmandan]

I do not believe we earn salvation. Thanks for your time.

Yes you do. At least in part. You believe that we are saved by faith + your personal definition of non-meritorious works.

Abraham was justified by faith WHEN he had offered Isaac (James 2:21).

Abraham was justified (shown to be righteous) and not accounted as righteous when he offered up Isaac on the altar. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Did you see that?

The Greek word for justified has more than one meaning, depending on the context.

The Greek word for justified "dikaioo" is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered - fits the context.
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Dikaioo Meaning - Greek Lexicon | New Testament (NAS)

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

What kinds of works do save? The works God commands us to do.

You confuse what God commands us to do in order to become saved with what God commands us to do after we have been saved.

Sinners can’t be saved without faith toward God AND obedience to His word.

Such how much obedience does it take? Your argument culminates in salvation by works/earning salvation no matter how much you try and sugar coat it.

God only saves those who OBEY him (Matt. 7:21; Heb. 5:9).

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Did you see that? Only believers have obeyed Him unto salvation and will obey Him (though not flawlessly) after salvation. Without faith it's impossible to please God so unbelievers/make believers do not obey Him in either sense. (Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[Karlon]

Romans 10:9 KJV

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

This is what it takes to be saved. If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, i.e. talk about him (not to put it exactly - with all humbleness), and believe that God raised him from the dead (in your heart), thou shalt be saved. To put it into other words if you are doing such a thing and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. But all you really need to do is to believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.

add to that James 1:22- 25, 1st Corinthians 15:58 & Ephesians 2:8-10.

 

[homwardbound]

The questions you have posed are really questions about God’s AUTHORITY. Matt. 28:18 Jesus said “ALL AUTHORITY HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH.” Therefore, I contend that we MUST have God’s authority ( permission) for all that we teach, or practice in the name of religion. That’s why, if God has not “authorized” it by giving permission, then we don’t practice it, nor teach it. I suppose this is the biggest difference between churches of Christ and denominations. Denominations do not adhere to this restriction and usually do whatever they “feel” is alright to do. In that sense they are doing what is right in their own eyes.

There are two kinds of authority. 1) SPECIFIC authority where God has SPECIFIED a certain kind of thing. Example: 1). Noah and the ark. God SPECIFIED the kind of wood that was to be used to build the ark—gopher wood. That eliminated EVERY OTHER KIND OF WOOD.
2) God SPECIFIED the tribe from which the priest were to come—-Levi. That eliminated EVERY OTHER TRIBE.
3). God SPECIFIED where the fire was to come from for the burning of incense ( from God’s altar). That eliminated GETTING FIRE FROM ANYWHERE ELSE. Leviticus 10. The two sons of Aaron were killed because they used “strange” fire to burn incense. God means what He says.
4) God SPECIFIED the kind of music He wanted in the New Testament—vocal music Eph5:18, Col. 3:16. That eliminated every other kind of music. ( there are only two kinds of music—vocal and instrumental.). The fact that for 700 years after the Bible was written, no church used instrumental music in their worship services, shows that this was a common understanding of what God wanted and of what the New Testament taught. It serves as a “witness” or “testimony” of what the Bible teaches.

But there is also another kind of authority. It is called GENERIC authority. It is when God has given us a command but has NOT SPECIFIED how it is to be obeyed. Then, and only tHEN , may we use OUR judgement in carrying out that command. Let’s use our previous examples and for the moment PRETEND that God commanded a certain thing but did NOT specify. 1) if God had told Noah to build an ark out of wood, but did not SPECIFY any particular kind of wood, then Noah could have used ANY WOOD that seemed good to him. That’s “generic “ authority.
2). If God had told Moses to make priests from among God’s people, but did NOT SPECIFY any particular tribe, then there could have been Jewish priests of God from ALL or ANY tribe of the Jews. That’s “generic” authority.
3) If God had told Nadab and Abihu (Leviticus 10) to just burn incense and did not specify the kind of fire they were to use, then they could have gotten fire from anywhere. That’s generic authority.
4) if God had just told us to make music in Eph5;19 and Col. 3:16, then we could have sung, played instruments and used any kind of music we wanted to use. But God didn’t say “make music.” God said “sing”. God has SPECIFIED the kind of music He wants. I dare not “add to”” nor “go beyond” the things that are written.

A few more examples from the New Testament. God says in the “Great Commission” Matt 28:18-19 to GO into all the world and preach the gospel. But God has not specified how we are to go. He has left that up to us. In the first century they walked, rode animals or traveled by ship. In our day, we may drive a car, train, bus, or fly. “Go” is a generic command and we may do whatever it takes to fulfill that command. (As long as we do not violate His other commands).
In Hebrews 10:25, the Holy Spirit tells us to not to forsake the “assembling of ourselves together.” We understand this to mean “church assemblies; as are mentioned in Acts 29:7 and first Cor. 14 when it talks about things we do in the church when we are “assembled together. But God does not specify “where” we are to assemble. Again generic authority. In the New Testament we find People assembling in people’s homes, on the river bank, and in a school ( Acts). Today, we can meet Under bush arbors, in tents, in a rented hall or building, or permanent buildings built just for that purpose. We have generic authority for a PLACE to “assemble.”

Isaiah reminds us that we must “REASON” together with God. Isa.1:18.

For me, if it is not the Love of God permeating through me, then it is not of God to me.
I have failed many a times and God has not once ever put me down in my failures, Has taken me in Love and shared with me this love and mercy. I went woe is me as in Isaiah 6:1-7
Now, I stand in belief over anything else this world of people offer me
Thanking God, that God is not generic as people are generic, God simply (proven to me in risen Son for us all) Loves us all to now be able to go to God Father and say thank you for reconciliation given to us by Son. Now, Father, I have tried to do right and have found me not doing it right. I, have been guilty and in pride over thinking I got it together now and have not ever done it perfectly ever. but you have, thank you
But you have, and offer the risen Son Jesus to us all to stand in belief to you, in trust to you to carry on the good work you begin in each child you see that is sincere in belief. as I see you saw Saul who became Paul.
Now I trust you to teach me too, knowing you will do that for each person that truly believes you, I see in thankfulness you do love us all, otherwise Son would not have come and died for all to take away sin from your sight, so we can now enter your throne of Grace confidently and ask to get taught new by you and not self or anyone else anymore, thank you

 

[GWH]

Yes you do. At least in part. You believe that we are saved by faith + your personal definition of non-meritorious works.

Abraham was justified (shown to be righteous) and not accounted as righteous when he offered up Isaac on the altar. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Did you see that?

The Greek word for justified has more than one meaning, depending on the context.

The Greek word for justified "dikaioo" is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered - fits the context.
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Dikaioo Meaning - Greek Lexicon | New Testament (NAS)

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

You confuse what God commands us to do in order to become saved with what God commands us to do after we have been saved.

Such how much obedience does it take? Your argument culminates in salvation by works/earning salvation no matter how much you try and sugar coat it.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Did you see that? Only believers have obeyed Him unto salvation and will obey Him (though not flawlessly) after salvation. Without faith it's impossible to please God so unbelievers/make believers do not obey Him in either sense. (Matthew 7:21-23)

Re "You believe that we are saved by faith + your personal definition of non-meritorious works.": So, you believe
we are saved - any fruit of the Spirit?

Yes, faith comes first, but also yes, faith without fruit is false/dead.

And yes, the fruit of obedience does not earn salvation, following Jesus does not earn salvation, abiding in the doctrine of Christ does not earn salvation, looking to the author of eternal salvation does not cause one to be self-righteous, etc.

Is agreement really so difficult?!

 

[studier]

NKJ Col1:9-12 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; 12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.

Keep reading at least down to:

NKJ Col1:21-23 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.​

God's will and His Gospel is much greater than men having an undefined initial belief in His Son.

NKJ Col4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a bondservant of Christ, greets you, always laboring fervently for you in prayers, that you may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

NKJ Heb13:20-21 Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

 

[mailmandan]

Re "You believe that we are saved by faith + your personal definition of non-meritorious works.": So, you believe
we are saved - any fruit of the Spirit?

Yes, faith comes first, but also yes, faith without fruit is false/dead.

And yes, the fruit of obedience does not earn salvation, following Jesus does not earn salvation, abiding in the doctrine of Christ does not earn salvation, looking to the author of eternal salvation does not cause one to be self-righteous, etc.

Is agreement really so difficult?!

Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. We must not put the cart before the horse and we also must not confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture.