Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

[eternally-gratefull]

it's an act of pure Love, to follow in our Saviour's foot-steps...

​still won’t save you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Was Jesus on the wrong side of the cross when He said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"?

​it would be mistaken to assume he meant water baptism.

 

[MarcR]

The eis argument

Some time ago J. R. Mantey entered into a written discussion with Ralph Marcus as to whether the preposition “eis”, “for”, was translated “because of” in extra biblical Greek literature. Daniel B. Wallace, a Greek scholar and sympathetic to Mantey’s position writes, “Marcus ably demonstrated that the linguistic evidence for a causal eis . fell short of proof.” Greek Grammar, Beyond the Basics, pg 370. When your own people, who are Greek scholars are not convinced by your argument, it may be time to give it up.

In Acts 2: 37-38 it appears that the people had believed when they were pierced to the heart when they heard the message. They asked, “Brethren, what shall we do?” They were told, Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
(1) They believed when they were pierced to the heart yet their sins were NOT forgiven.
(2) We cannot be baptized unless we believe with all our heart. (Acts 8: 37, 38)
(3) Acts 22: 16 confirms that our sins are washed away when we are baptized and call on the name of the Lord.
(4) Acts. 6: 8 confirms that we are freed from sin when we die with the Lord in baptism.
(5) Acts 6: 17, 18 confirms that we are freed from sin when we obey that form of teaching, death, burial and resurrection.
(6) Ephesians 1: 3, 7 tells us that all spiritual blessings are in Christ, we are baptized into Christ.
(7) 2 Timothy 2: 10 states that salvation is in Christ, we are baptized into Christ.
(8) Colossians 1: 14 tells us that redemption, the forgiveness of sins is in Christ, we are baptized into Christ.

God bless.

Your argument is quite correct, and very fair except that you fail to mention that Robinson agreed with Marcus.

What you fail to address is the use of eis to signify 'in light of' or 'in recognition of'

You also fail to mention that Arndt and Gingrich in their translation of Gesenius' lexicon, recognize the causal eis though they acknowledge it as controversial.

 

[DJ2]

​it would be mistaken to assume he meant water baptism.

Why would this be an assumption?

When the word "baptism" is used the tacit understanding is water, is it not?

What do you think Jesus was referring to in Mark 16:16? If a church was to announce that someone was to be baptized at 5:00 pm what do you think they were going to be baptized in?

If someone is going to take a bath, do you wonder what in?

Your trust only regeneration theology is showing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why would this be an assumption?

When the word "baptism" is used the tacit understanding is water, is it not?

No, Not in the Bible. And not in Ancient Greece, and not in Rome. Only in certain churches who have spiritualized a word to mean something it never was meant to be.

What do you think Jesus was referring to in Mark 16:16? If a church was to announce that someone was to be baptized at 5:00 pm what do you think they were going to be baptized in?

If someone is going to take a bath, do you wonder what in?

Your trust only regeneration theology is showing.

I know I know. You deny the baptism of the HS, the Baptism into christ, The baptism into his death and burial. It has to always be water for you.

Sadly, You have a lot of people who had true faith in God throughout history who wil be hell bound because for whatever reason they did not get wet.

My trust only regeneration theology? Titus 3: 5 - NOT by works of righteousness (water baptism is a work of righteousness) which we have done, BUT BY HIS MERCY, he SAVED US by the WASHING of REGENERATION and RENEWAL of the HOLY SPIRIT.

I trust in the REGERATION of the Holy Spirit. Not of water performed but some priest (man)

Your trying to replace the work of the HS with the work of men, Jesus called that blasphemy of the spirit. You should be afraid.

 

[MarcR]

Why would this be an assumption?

When the word "baptism" is used the tacit understanding is water, is it not?

What do you think Jesus was referring to in Mark 16:16? If a church was to announce that someone was to be baptized at 5:00 pm what do you think they were going to be baptized in?

If someone is going to take a bath, do you wonder what in?

Your trust only regeneration theology is showing.

Mt 3:11
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
KJV

John the baptizer is speaking of Jesus baptizing with the Holy Spirit.

This is the baptism that does and must happen at conversion.

Water baptism by immersion, when physically possible should follow Salvation as a step of obedience and symbolic public identification with Jesus in His death burial and resurrection.

 

[Bladerunner]

Default Re: Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
Was Jesus on the wrong side of the cross when He said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"?
Jesus' Ministry was to the Jews. Peters ministry was to the Jews first and then the Gentiles and Paul's ministry was to both of who would believe.

Try this verse.....Under Eph 2:5 (KJV).."Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,(by grace ye are saved" ..we see by the Authority of GOD, By Grace You are saved...... DId this say anything about WORKs??????

If and I mean IF you want to get Baptized as a public declaration or in order to join (become a member) a denominational or NOT Church, GREAT.

IF By the Authority of God's Words through Paul, you believe that getting baptized (by Water) wil save you, then my Friend I am afraid you are looking at some hot times in the town FOREVER.

It is of course your choice. but remember this: we are all Born into SIN and will Go to HELL unless we are SAVED by the Grace of Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

Hope you change your mind.....??????



OT

Under the Law | John the Baptist Ministry | Jesus Christ's Ministry

Jesus' Crucifixion, Burial and Resurrection according to scripture.

NT
Age of the Church

We are under Paul's ministry Salvation by Grace and all it takes is a little bit of Faith.


Hope everyone has a Blessed New YEAR!
Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Of course it is absolutely necessary to be baptized by full immersion
in water.
Jesus did it as a demonstration to fulfill all righteousness.
Jesus commanded it more than once in the gospels.

To become a Christian Peter tells us in response to the question:
Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the
name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off,
even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves
from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there
were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:

Peter again writes of baptism as an expression of a good conscience towards
God unto obedience - that is not arguing with the commandments of God.

Romans chapter 6 is all about water baptism and the symbolism and purpose of such.
Death and burial to the old person, rising up to embrace resurrection in Christ Jesus;
hence also the need for Holy Spirit baptism.

Acts is full of examples showing that Christians were baptized in water and then
also sought for the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Verses pertaining to baptism are scattered all throughout the epistles because it
was expected that ALL converts were baptized by full immersion and baptized
in the Holy Spirit.

Obedience is what discipleship is all about.

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins,
calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 22:16

Under Eph 2:5 (KJV).."Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,(by grace ye are saved" ..we see by the Authority of GOD, By Grace You are saved...... DId this say anything about WORKs??????

 

[DJ2]

Default Re: Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

Quote Originally Posted by DJ2 View Post
Was Jesus on the wrong side of the cross when He said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"?
Jesus' Ministry was to the Jews. Peters ministry was to the Jews first and then the Gentiles and Paul's ministry was to both of who would believe.

Try this verse.....Under Eph 2:5 (KJV).."Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,(by grace ye are saved" ..we see by the Authority of GOD, By Grace You are saved...... DId this say anything about WORKs??????

If and I mean IF you want to get Baptized as a public declaration or in order to join (become a member) a denominational or NOT Church, GREAT.

IF By the Authority of God's Words through Paul, you believe that getting baptized (by Water) wil save you, then my Friend I am afraid you are looking at some hot times in the town FOREVER.

It is of course your choice. but remember this: we are all Born into SIN and will Go to HELL unless we are SAVED by the Grace of Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

Hope you change your mind.....??????



OT

Under the Law | John the Baptist Ministry | Jesus Christ's Ministry

Jesus' Crucifixion, Burial and Resurrection according to scripture.

NT
Age of the Church

We are under Paul's ministry Salvation by Grace and all it takes is a little bit of Faith.


Hope everyone has a Blessed New YEAR!
Blade

Jesus' Ministry was to the Jews. Peters ministry was to the Jews first and then the Gentiles and Paul's ministry was to both of who would believe

How this explains your "baptism is being phased out" theory I do not know.

Try this verse.....Under Eph 2:5 (KJV).."Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,(by grace ye are saved" ..we see by the Authority of GOD, By Grace You are saved...... DId this say anything about WORKs??????

You are simply quoting an abstraction without the event, it proves nothing.

Unless you believe in universal reconciliation I suggest you don't use this verse as a definitive.

You seem to be neck deep into trust only regeneration theology. A theology that is simply a stringing of general statements and abstract understandings without regard to the definitive nature of many other verses.

Faith only theology may help those with itching ears sleep at night but the spiritual man knows better.

I hope you are blessed in 2018 as well.

 

[DJ2]

Mt 3:11
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
KJV

John the baptizer is speaking of Jesus baptizing with the Holy Spirit.

This is the baptism that does and must happen at conversion.

Water baptism by immersion, when physically possible should follow Salvation as a step of obedience and symbolic public identification with Jesus in His death burial and resurrection.

Mt 3:11
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
KJV

Not sure what your purpose is with this verse but if you are suggesting that Matthew 3:11 is speaking of the forgiveness of sins you are quite mistaken.

Matthew 3:11 makes no mention of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit being the point of forgiveness of sins.

If you are looking for verses about the baptism being the point of forgiveness of sins read the following.

Mark 1:4 So John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Each one of you must turn away from your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit".

This is the purpose of baptism, not

as a step of obedience and symbolic public identification with Jesus in His death burial and resurrection

.

 

[Waggles]

The spiritual significance of water baptism by full immersion

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground
and die, it abides alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit.
25 He that loves his life shall lose it; and he that hates his life in this world shall
keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be:
if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
John 12:

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was
raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in
newness of life.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:

 

[Waggles]

The spiritual significance of water baptism by full immersion​

13 Then comes Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John,
to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee,
and come thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becomes us
to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo,
the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove,
and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matthew 3:

And here you have it - what must I do to become a Christian; to become a
disciple of Jesus; an obedient follower?
Water baptism by full immersion - even Jesus underwent this to demonstrate the
necessity of this commandment/sacrament.
And also baptism of the Holy Spirit - adoption by the indwelling Holy Spirit to be
like as to Jesus: a son or daughter of our Father in Heaven.

Romans chapter 6 & chapter 8

Acts 2:38

 

[Waggles]

Obedience to the Scriptures and the New Testament Church
Full immersion baptisms in Papua New Guinea and where
also converts seek to be baptized in the Holy Spirit with the
Bible evidence of speaking in tongues.
The outpouring of the Latter Rain of the Holy Spirit continues...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not sure what your purpose is with this verse but if you are suggesting that Matthew 3:11 is speaking of the forgiveness of sins you are quite mistaken.

Matthew 3:11 makes no mention of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit being the point of forgiveness of sins.

If you are looking for verses about the baptism being the point of forgiveness of sins read the following.

Mark 1:4 So John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Each one of you must turn away from your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit".

This is the purpose of baptism, not .

Wow, So John the Baptist spoke of the fact his baptism in water was pretty important. But there comes one after him who is much mightier than himself. And his baptism is going to be so much more important. And you just make it seem that this “baptism of the spirit” is going to be some meaningless act of God”

I guess your true colors are showing

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The spiritual significance of water baptism by full immersion

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground
and die, it abides alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit.
25 He that loves his life shall lose it; and he that hates his life in this world shall
keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be:
if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
John 12:

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was
raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in
newness of life.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:

Romans 6 is not talking about water baptism.Water can get you wet. It can not cleanse you. Being placed into (literally baptised into the death) if Christ. Where we PARTAKE of his death, Now that can cleans us and make us clean.

There is only one person who can do this, and it is not y9our pastor. IT IS GOD HIMSELF.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The spiritual significance of water baptism by full immersion​

13 Then comes Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John,
to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee,
and come thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becomes us
to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightwayout of the water: and, lo,
the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove,
and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matthew 3:

And here you have it - what must I do to become a Christian; to become a
disciple of Jesus; an obedient follower?
Water baptism by full immersion - even Jesus underwent this to demonstrate the
necessity of this commandment/sacrament.
And also baptism of the Holy Spirit - adoption by the indwelling Holy Spirit to be
like as to Jesus: a son or daughter of our Father in Heaven.

Romans chapter 6 & chapter 8

Acts 2:38

Jesus was baptised for one reason and one reason only.

As john said, he was told whomever you baptise, and immediately coming out of the water you see the HS defend on him as a dove (anoint him) this is he who will take away the sins of the world.

As moses baptised Arron and his sons in the river in front of the children 0f Isreal. Announcing them as priests under God (Arron High priest, who would give thre sacrifice of atonement) esus was being announced to the world as the great high priest. Who will remove the sins as the lamb of God.

He did not do it to prove the necessity of the commandment, this is church speak. From the Catholics. Who got it wrong.

The baptism of the HS happens the moment a person places their faith in God and calls out on the name of the lord to save him. Water baptism SHOULD be the first command the person obeys as soon as possible. But is NOT required for salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Obedience to the Scriptures and the New Testament Church
Full immersion baptisms in Papua New Guinea and where
also converts seek to be baptized in the Holy Spirit with the
Bible evidence of speaking in tongues.
The outpouring of the Latter Rain of the Holy Spirit continues...

One does not seek to be baptised with the spirit. Jesus never commanded us to seek to be baptised by the spirit. He said you will be.. (huge difference) it is an automatic. If your not baptised with the spirit. Your not saved, whether you got baptised in water or not.

 

[Waggles]

How wrong in doctrine can some people be?
100% wrong is not a good score.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How wrong in doctrine can some people be?
100% wrong is not a good score.

1 percent wrong is not good when it comes to the gospel, So why would you want to replace the work of God with the work of man?

 

[Bladerunner]

How this explains your "baptism is being phased out" theory I do not know.



You are simply quoting an abstraction without the event, it proves nothing.

Unless you believe in universal reconciliation I suggest you don't use this verse as a definitive.

You seem to be neck deep into trust only regeneration theology. A theology that is simply a stringing of general statements and abstract understandings without regard to the definitive nature of many other verses.

Faith only theology may help those with itching ears sleep at night but the spiritual man knows better.

I hope you are blessed in 2018 as well.

I could take you all the way through John's and Jesus' ministry and show you the difference after Jesus died, was buried and resurrected (according to scripture) between the new Gospel and the old Gospel (the LAW). It is call dispensationalism......

I could take you all the way through Acts, Romans and virtually every book that Paul wrote including Hebrews......

and show you that Baptism by Water for the purposes of Salvation was phased out and has been since Acts 2:36-38.



But unfortunately those words would fall on very deaf ears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!