Baptism Debate - who did the best job?

[Deade]

I do not believe Baptism saves, but I do really feel it's a significant spiritual marker.

Bottom line: Christ giving us the Holy Spirit is the baptism that saves. Once you have that it will guide you to get water baptized properly, usually sooner than later.

 

[JaumeJ]

Bottom line: Christ giving us the Holy Spirit is the baptism that saves. Once you have that it will guide you to get water baptized properly, usually sooner than later.

That is exactly what happened to me...………..Yahweh send someone to me in Boulder, Colorado to tell me he wanted to baptize me...……..

 

[Lanolin]

Interesting points you make.

May I proffer my view as someone who has baptised many people.

I totally agree with you.
If someone professes faith in Jesus they should be baptised straight away.
No questions asked other than profession of faith.

They should not be observed to be seen to be worth of it.
Shame on the church, as they do that.

Common sense as you say.
Yes let's use that. Our sister Rose will tell you that.
Her son in prison, serious crime. Came to Jesus.
Was not allowed to be baptised.

With regards to not willing to be baptised.
It can take two directions and I have experienced both.

My nephew would not get baptised.
I went with him on a course at church, baptism came up.
On the way home I asked why he was not baptised?

He replied"Because I'm not perfect, I still sin"

I said to him "If you waiting to be so then you ain't gonna be baptised"
Jesus saved you as a sinner, loves the sinner.

He got baptised two weeks later.

Then someone else I spoke to did not want to get baptised.
The reason being was that some big testimony had to be given and she was not comfortable doing that. A fear of speaking in public.

I said to her "Just stand up and say, I'm getting baptised because I have placed my faith in Jesus"

She did that.

I refused to baptise someone when asked.
I wasn't sure he was genuine.

So when I met with him in asked

Romans 10:9-13
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

He said no.
I asked can you, will you do that and mean it.
He said "Not now maybe at some point"

Then I told him I could not baptise him.
He left the church.

My cards on the table here.

I do not believe Baptism saves, but I do really feel it's a significant spiritual marker.

Yep, the whole 'im not ready thing' and excuses...upon profession public of faith, there is no reason not to baptise, but one has to be sure and its a God thing to obey Him in this area.
Some churches go against God and make it out to be something else. One is not baptised into a denomination on is baptised in Jesus name.

Its like planting a seed and giving it water, the seed needs water to grow and have a good start.

 

[Matthew55]

Interesting points you make.

May I proffer my view as someone who has baptised many people.

I totally agree with you.
If someone professes faith in Jesus they should be baptised straight away.
No questions asked other than profession of faith.

They should not be observed to be seen to be worth of it.
Shame on the church, as they do that.

Common sense as you say.
Yes let's use that. Our sister Rose will tell you that.
Her son in prison, serious crime. Came to Jesus.
Was not allowed to be baptised.

With regards to not willing to be baptised.
It can take two directions and I have experienced both.

My nephew would not get baptised.
I went with him on a course at church, baptism came up.
On the way home I asked why he was not baptised?

He replied"Because I'm not perfect, I still sin"

I said to him "If you waiting to be so then you ain't gonna be baptised"
Jesus saved you as a sinner, loves the sinner.

He got baptised two weeks later.

Then someone else I spoke to did not want to get baptised.
The reason being was that some big testimony had to be given and she was not comfortable doing that. A fear of speaking in public.

I said to her "Just stand up and say, I'm getting baptised because I have placed my faith in Jesus"

She did that.

I refused to baptise someone when asked.
I wasn't sure he was genuine.

So when I met with him in asked

Romans 10:9-13
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

He said no.
I asked can you, will you do that and mean it.
He said "Not now maybe at some point"

Then I told him I could not baptise him.
He left the church.

My cards on the table here.

I do not believe Baptism saves, but I do really feel it's a significant spiritual marker.

Since you say that baptism does not save, then you are in the 1/2 that do not believe that baptism is essential to our salvation. If you do not reach that significant spiritual marker, because you do not get baptized, do you feel that will hamper your salvation?

Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart.... , and everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. So you believe that water baptism is unneccessary?

 

[Matthew55]

I agree they don't even suggest where the foundation of the doctrine water washing ceremonies has its roots as to the reason . It would seem they would believe men could take that for granted as some sort of common knowledge.

It is common knowledge that Jesus, when he went to be baptized, told John, who hesitated to baptize a perfect person, that he (Jesus) needed to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness. (Matthew 3:15) So if a perfect person feels like he needs to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness for himself, then how much more does a sinner need to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness for himself.

It is common knowledge, and common sense.

 

[garee]

It is common knowledge that Jesus, when he went to be baptized, told John, who hesitated to baptize a perfect person, that he (Jesus) needed to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness. (Matthew 3:15) So if a perfect person feels like he needs to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness for himself, then how much more does a sinner need to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness for himself.

It is common knowledge, and common sense.

I would think if John a Levite priest would hesitate it would be because Jesus was the from the tribe of Judah and not eligible by law .

It would seem God was making a propmissed change in the Priesthood .According to the manner of Melchizedek coming as the promised King of kings and High priest of our calling. Establishing the new order of priesthood men and woman from all nations even calling us kings who hold out the gospel

Genesis 14:18And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.


Psalm 110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

The foundation for water baptism is set in the Old testemtment when a approved person from the tribe of Levi could join the ministry. It would seem to set the stage in John 3:25 The High Priest has come the shadow Melchizedek disappears.

The baptism or ceremonial cleansing is shadow (not salvation) of the Son of man Jesus.It is a picture of the Spirit of Christ coming to restore the government of God to a period time period when there were prophets and prophetesses. It was restored in Acts 2 to fulfill the prophecy of Joel.

The time or reformation came as a sign against those who refuse to belive the unseen God of prophecy in any language.

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit .Joel2:28 -29

Today we can bring the seed and water it with the gospel of grace in a hope God will apply His work to their hearts