yas ...another thing MADianites do for he is a Mid Acts Dispensationalist or MAD is they never respond when they are shown to be wrong, they just bounce along as though it never happened.
Are you certain of going to heaven when you die ?
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Do we know for a fact that the OP is a "Mid-Acts-dispensationalist" (aka "hyper-dispensationalist" some call this)?
[I personally have not read very many of his posts, to know...]
[If so, then to be clear, "Mid-Acts-dispensational" ('hyper-dispensational') is not the same thing as "Pauline- "..., as I pointed out in my previous post]
Is it possible that his viewpoint is being misrepresented with the [legit] labels "MID-Acts-dispensational [MAD]" / "hyper-dispensational"
(as well as "Abs'" [non-legit, mis-labeled] label, [a supposed] "hyper-Pauline")??
Just asking. Coz I hate it when I see ppl's viewpoints being misrepresented
I think this is a good analogy ^ ... to what we are discussing...
meaning, that Dr. Abs would diagnose anyone believing that "the Church which is His body" began in Acts 2 (Pentecost) as a [mis-labeled] "hyper-[anything]"... but that diagnosis is NOT ACCURATE (not a legit labeling, see).And this is because Abs himself believes the Church [which is His body] has existed throughout human history since the beginning of time (i.e. from the time of the garden of Eden pretty much), rather than what dispensationalists in general believe, that it came into existence at some point AFTER Christ was "glorified" (and pertains to the permanent INDWELLING of the Holy Spirit, see again John 7:39's "NOT YET's"; and see Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence]).
This is the actual distinction that is needful of being pointed out (but isn't being, in all the mis-labeling by Abs, and possible misrepresentings...). = )
The "one taken/left" is framed by Jesus as the rapture.
So is the 10 virgin parable.
Vividly depicted.
Jesus partial rapture " theory";
Mat 24
38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not [ac]understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one [ad]will be taken and one [ae]will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the [af]mill; one [ag]will be taken and one [ah]will be left.
Be Ready for His Coming
42 “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43 But [ai]be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 For this reason you must be ready as well; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
Partial rapture big time
Yes
He spews them out of his mouth.
They are carnal believers walking in sin.
The church is full of them.
Note he tells BELIEVERS; Repent and go buy gold refined in fire to get back into intimacy.
He has remedy for backsliders.
Nowhere are carnal believers cast down without remedy.
It is you pretending all believers whether carnal, backslidden , or on fire for God are treated the same.
Why do you think crowns are given to a few and not all?
The answer is worthy vs unworthy.
Not saved vs unsaved.
( are you not seeing worthy believers that Jesus refers to are saved, as well as those not receiving a reward("unworthy") are just as saved?)
Jesus told believers " pray that you may be counted Worthy to escape the things about to come upon the Earth and stand before the son of God".
He said that to believers. Some believers that are not praying to be counted Worthy are going to be unworthy to escape. Now I don't know if you're thinking about reframing that into a dynamic that would say you don't have to be worthy as long as you're saved you're going to escape the Great Tribulation. But that would definitely be going against the Bible would it not?
I believe these things were talked about back in the other threads (threads covering "rapture timing"), so that's where I'm getting what it is I'm referring to, about your views...
but to make it as succinct as possible, here, I'll just let you answer this directly (so as to make clear your viewpoint to the readers in this thread, since we're on this Subject [which you've brought up, by placing a particular label on the OP person])...
Here's the question: When do you (Abs) believe the Church started / came into existence / began (however you want to put it)?
I've stated before, the seven letters are addressed "to the churchES" (which is not the same thing as saying "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" in which there exists ONLY believers);
however, in "the churchES" there exist both believers AND those who come in His name but who are not actually SAVED/true believers / saints / i.e. vitally connected to Christ ...
...and it is the latter of these two who are called "LUKEWARM" (because they are NOT "vitally connected to the SOURCE [Christ, or God by means of Christ]" JUST LIKE the water system of that day were connected to a SOURCE which provided either HOT OR COLD (which from God's perspective, He's saying HE "WOULD" / that is, either of these is His "WILL"--i.e. BOTH of these are a POSITIVE, from God's perspective);
but the "LUKEWARM" is like a disconnected-from-the-source mud-puddle. They are NOT SAVED, and do NOT have a "taste of Christ" coz they are not connected to Him at all (in salvation).
IOW, "Lukewarm CHRISTIAN" is not a biblical phrase / terminology.
Rather, "lukewarm" here speaks of those who are not genuinely saved (but whom He exhorts to buy of Him gold tried in the fire... so they can indeed be saved... [I believe this particular point speaks specifically of the future trib yrs... "tried in the fire"... It's not that they were Christians who were sub-par and thus were to be left behind at the time of the Rapture (of the "ONE BODY" at ONE point in time)])
The first saved ones would be the first church.
I see members here batting that back and forth.
I will take a guess and say the disciples.
I know you are looking for the right answer.
What is your take on the matter?
You need a better understanding of salvation.
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Works is what we do as believers.
Once saved it is up to us to apply ourselves= works both good and bad.
If we " sit on our hands" or become self serving " lukewarm" it has bearing on rewards, not salvation.
Salvation is covenant.
Works by believers is from obedience, love, a changed heart, or possibly another source. All working in the believer AFTER SALVATION.
As believers, it is easy to slip into lukewarmness.
The prodigal became COLD. Took his inheritance and left THE FATHER.
Pssssst.....he was WORSE than lukewarm.
He repented and came home to the same father.
Wow you just gave me a revelation. That same ratio ( 50%) is in the parable.
That makes 3 witnesses.3 examples of those belonging to the father as saved covenant people in different worthy vs unworthy dynamics.
Iow
You need in the 10 virgin parable a dynamic of complete sinners having ;
Lamps
Oil
Light
The Holy Spirit
Waiting on Jesus
Sleeping with "hot" believers
And asking for the wise to share oil to relight their lamps.
You think heathens have those dynamics.
In corinthians paul told the believers to greet the adulterer as a brother.
That concept of all christians are never lukewarm is error.
"""Rather, "lukewarm" here speaks of those who are not genuinely saved (but whom He exhorts to buy of Him gold tried in the fire... so they can indeed be saved... [I believe this particular point speaks specifically of the future trib yrs... "tried in the fire"... It's not that they were Christians who were sub-par and thus were to be left behind at the time of the Rapture (of the "ONE BODY" at ONE point in time)])"""
No
It says "To the believers"
You are trying to say that not one person in that church is saved.
In 1 corinthians it says " some are saved as through fire, they are saved but their works are burned up"
Lukewarm are definitely saved.
Btw
I am as "Pauline" as the next guy.
Hyperpaulines misrepresent the books not written by paul.
That is their error.
I am as "Pauline" as the next guy.
Hyperpaulines misrepresent the books not written by paul.
That is their error.