Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[Dino246]

I am curious to know how preaching equates to exercising authority over men.

Any ideas? Just asking you cuz I know you are a smart guy and well versed in Scripture.

Thanks for the compliment. The only thing I can think of is that in some traditions, the preacher's words are regarded as one small step below Scripture, so if he tells you to do something, you "must" do it. The twin children of such traditions are arrogance and abuse.

Also, so many speak about men being the head over the woman, but what if husband gives wife the okay
to preach? Is that some breach of... protocol? Does any other man have a right to contradict the matter?

I don't see that "protocol" anywhere in Scripture. The only case where a husband and wife ministered together is that of Aquila and Prisca, and after their initial introduction, her name is put first.

IMHO, whether a married woman is "free" to preach is between her, her husband, and God. A wise wife will respect her husband, and a wise husband will not stand in between his wife and her calling in Christ. If another man isn't comfortable with a female preacher, he is free to get up and leave, just as he is with any male preacher.

 

[Dino246]

Nor did He ever place them above men in relation to their God given authority.

Your stubbornness on this matter is astounding. I have corrected you on this exact thing in this very thread, and you continue in your error. Go and read the story of Deborah in Judges, and stop spouting ignorant sexism.

It is rebellion for a woman to endeavor to pastor a church.

Unbiblical hogwash.

 

[Magenta]

Thanks for the compliment. The only thing I can think of is that in some traditions, the preacher's words are regarded as one small step below Scripture, so if he tells you to do something, you "must" do it. The twin children of such traditions are arrogance and abuse.

I don't see that "protocol" anywhere in Scripture. The only case where a husband and wife ministered together is that of Aquila and Prisca, and after their initial introduction, her name is put first.

IMHO, whether a married woman is "free" to preach is between her, her husband, and God. A wise wife will respect her husband, and a wise husband will not stand in between his wife and her calling in Christ. If another man isn't comfortable with a female preacher, he is free to get up and leave, just as he is with any male preacher.

You are welcome, and thank you for your thoughts on the matter They make good sense (gosh, that's a breath of fresh air after some of the people with/to whom I have been speaking ), though I would not normally think of preaching as telling people what to do so much as it is simply expounding upon and teaching the revealed written Word of God

 

[notuptome]

Your stubbornness on this matter is astounding. I have corrected you on this exact thing in this very thread, and you continue in your error. Go and read the story of Deborah in Judges, and stop spouting ignorant sexism.

Your opinion on the matter is not equal. You need to align yourself with scripture not go about railing on others who do believe what the bible teaches.

Unbiblical hogwash.

Just more evidence of rebellion against the word of God. Just because you do not like it does not mean that it is unbiblical. I'm not even sorry that your moral superiority is offended by Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

[

I believe we are a "helper" to man. We have a job. As some have said, behind every good man is a good woman. For what man can fight strife with strife.... if his woman is of strife? Can we not be content to be a helper? I have a man and work to help him often. So my glory to the word of God... is to help bring my man to glory to ... glorify His name. If this is my only job, then so be it... I feel that God will reward me for doing my job. Must I be the King... to be the King's helper? No. But let women work toward a good... and a loving husband... but mostly a loving God.... sustain us... throughout our works. I think, no matter what our job, if we are working for God, It's hard to imagine a failed job. Work for God, wait for God's guidance, live for God, and God will reward us.!

Some women are single and it can't be helped. As indeed are some men.

 

[Deade]

Your opinion on the matter is not equal. You need to align yourself with scripture not go about railing on others who do believe what the bible teaches.

Just more evidence of rebellion against the word of God. Just because you do not like it does not mean that it is unbiblical. I'm not even sorry that your moral superiority is offended by Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

This day and age Christians will do as they please, not regarding scripture. We have twisted and turned scripture so much, we can just about do or not do anything we want. I might be hard, but women were not meant to be the spiritual leaders. Men need to step up and lead. The following scripture comes to mind:

Isa. 3:12 "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths."

 

[Dino246]

Your opinion on the matter is not equal. You need to align yourself with scripture not go about railing on others who do believe what the bible teaches.

Just more evidence of rebellion against the word of God. Just because you do not like it does not mean that it is unbiblical. I'm not even sorry that your moral superiority is offended by Gods word.

The irrelevance and stupidity of your comments are evidence that you have abandoned rational discussion and shut your mind to the possibility of your own error.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Several things are at play.

One thing is that the women of Paul's day were not educated. They were not allowed to go to the temple to learn. In fact it has been said that the men in that day considered a mule more than they did a woman.

Another thing is that in the church of that day, women would ask their husbands questions across the isles and that caused a lot of confusion so Paul was saying..."You women be silent in church and then ask your questions when you get home".

Paul also said in 1 Corth 14:34......"Women are are to speak in church". However, the whole 14th chapter's CONTEXT is speaking in tongues and then in verse 34......."Women are not to speak in church". Many Bible scholars take that to mean that women were being told NOT to speak IN TONGUES in church.

Personally......I do not know and I only posted this to have the conversation. Which ever the reason, the Scriptures IMO are clear and they say that it is a MAN who is to be the pastor of the church.

There is no where in scripture that says the man has to be the PASTOR of the church. All references to leadership in the church is ALWAYS by a plurality of Elders along with the Apostles and Prophets.

 

[mustaphadrink]

There is no reason women cant be preachers of the word. Many are now and more will be. What timothy wrote at tlme was for the time. what he wrote was in no way a commandment. Love fufils the law, that is a commanment. If a womanpreaches love of God she is following exactly the word give by Jesus. So let her be.

A classic example of making the word fit our teaching rather than fitting our teaching to the word. No one has said women cannot be preachers of the word. What has been said many times is that women teaching is acceptablre is specific situations and that is not as an Elder or pastor.

As all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitablre for etc. what Paul wrote to Timothy ( Timothy didn't write it) is not for the time it is for all time.

What he wrote was for the purpose of letting the church know how they conducted themselves. Both then and now.

What a woman preaches is irrelevant if it is not according to the Word's instruction about women's teaching.

 

[Angela53510]

The AV has it as Nymphas not Nympha.

Nymphas = "bridegroom"

1) a wealthy and zealous Christian in Laodicea

Col 4:15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Instead of comparing the KJV to the AV, which are basically the same, try comparing to Koine Greek.

"Νύμφαν καὶ τὴν κατ’ οἶκον αὐτῆς ἐκκλησίαν" Col 4:15b

The first word is Νύμφαν or Nymphan. The "n" is at the end of word to show it is the accusative case, singular feminine, and we knock off the final "n" in English, because we do not have noun cases. Unfortunately, the sigma ending you use, is masculine, nominative in all three declensions. An accusative noun is needed, and when you add the S or sigma, you destroy the grammar of the passage, by putting the noun in the nominative case, which doesn't match the accusative which is used in this part of verse.


The other important word is αὐτῆς or autes which is Feminine, singular, Accusative case. In other words, it means "her."

So, in Greek, Nyphman is feminine, which matches the personal pronoun, "her."

So much simpler and true is you don't look at the KJV, translated from all those late 7 corrupted manuscripts, and just go the Greek from the start!

 

[Angela53510]

Thanks for your refreshing comments.

In general, your comments are equally applicable to any Christian; our role is to glorify God and to help others do so. I need not be the senior pastor (or even a staff member) to help the church fulfill its role in the Kingdom and the community.

I would encourage you to do some research on the word "helper" as it is used in Genesis 2:18. "Subordinate assistant" is not the right sense.

In fact, the word "helper" or ezer is used twice in the opening chapters of Genesis. If we compare the word to other uses in the OT, it refers mostly to God, imploring and begging God to come to help. So the true meaning of ezer, is actually "strong helper." If you use the proper definition in Genesis, what you have is a great woman warrior, who stands together with her husband in spiritual warfare, to defeat their enemies. But the Fall did change that, but the Fall messed up the world, that was perfect before humans messed things up,

People really need to use the original languages, instead of claiming truth based on a translation, sometimes from corrupted manuscripts, such as the KJV translators used, because 400 years ago, that was all they had!! Unlike today when there are 6000 extant Greek NT manuscripts, which have all been studied extensively for mistakes, and categorized into families of the same readings of the manuscripts.

As a warning, you can't make a doctrine based on a few Scripture verses, which are often spurious, and satisfy the needs of men, not what has been discovered (exegeted) from the Bible.

I agree that women today are not physically as strong as men, and never will be. But at the dawn of creation? Eve could have been a very big woman warrior, who could defeat an evil person or spirit. Most women have lost this strength, but that is before the Fall and Eve was not a wimp, but a strong woman to match Adam. Let's use the model of creation, instead of modern women, who do not fit the description of "shield maiden!" The Bible says Eve was a strong helper, just like God was a strong helper for the nation of Israel.

 

[notuptome]

Instead of comparing the KJV to the AV, which are basically the same, try comparing to Koine Greek.

"Νύμφαν καὶ τὴν κατ’ οἶκον αὐτῆς ἐκκλησίαν" Col 4:15b

The first word is Νύμφαν or Nymphan. The "n" is at the end of word to show it is the accusative case, singular feminine, and we knock off the final "n" in English, because we do not have noun cases. Unfortunately, the sigma ending you use, is masculine, nominative in all three declensions. An accusative noun is needed, and when you add the S or sigma, you destroy the grammar of the passage, by putting the noun in the nominative case, which doesn't match the accusative which is used in this part of verse.


The other important word is αὐτῆς or autes which is Feminine, singular, Accusative case. In other words, it means "her."

So, in Greek, Nyphman is feminine, which matches the personal pronoun, "her."

So much simpler and true is you don't look at the KJV, translated from all those late 7 corrupted manuscripts, and just go the Greek from the start!

Yeah how did God use such a terrible piece of work for four hundred years to bring unsaved souls to Christ? Too bad you were not around four hundred years ago to set them straight.

If we take your understanding Col 4:15 and apply it to 1 Tim 3 does it create a conflict? How can a bishop be the husband of one wife and be female?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dino246]

Yeah how did God use such a terrible piece of work for four hundred years to bring unsaved souls to Christ? Too bad you were not around four hundred years ago to set them straight.

God uses imperfect English translations of His perfect word just as He uses imperfect human representatives of His perfect Son.

If we take your understanding Col 4:15 and apply it to 1 Tim 3 does it create a conflict? How can a bishop be the husband of one wife and be female?

A man who is married may only have one wife. The same restriction is put on deacons, yet Phoebe was a deacon (Romans 16:1), which means that it does not restrict either eldership or deaconship to men.

 

[Major]

There is no where in scripture that says the man has to be the PASTOR of the church. All references to leadership in the church is ALWAYS by a plurality of Elders along with the Apostles and Prophets.

1 Timothy 3:1-3 .......
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; "

How many more do you need.????

Now before you post that several translations use the word "Overseer". Correct. However if you read the entire verses, 1-3 you will see that in verse #2, "Husband of one wife" in the original Greek is ἄνδρα μιᾶς γυναικὸς, andra mias gunaikos.

andra = man, husband. “A man, i.e, an adult male person.”
mias = “One, the first cardinal numeral.”
gunaikos = Woman, wife,

So Paul is clearly telling us that the overseer must be a “MAN of one woman” which is translated as “husband of one wife.” This refutes the counter-argument.

But feel free to believe whatever you want to.

 

[Major]

This day and age Christians will do as they please, not regarding scripture. We have twisted and turned scripture so much, we can just about do or not do anything we want. I might be hard, but women were not meant to be the spiritual leaders. Men need to step up and lead. The following scripture comes to mind:

Isa. 3:12 "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths."

DING DING DING!! WE HAVE A WINNER! It took 34 pages but there it is!

And right there is the bottom line of this whole thread!!!!!!!!!!

The reason why the world....all of it is in the shape that it is in is because WE DO WHAT WE WANT TO DO no matter what the Word of God says.

Isaiah 30:10 says..........
"who say to the seers, “Do not see,” and to the prophets, “Do not prophesy to us what is right; speak to us smooth things, prophesy lies"

 

[Nehemiah6]

When did Jesus clean a woman's feet.

That's called role reversal. It was a woman who washed the feet of Christ, but this is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. And if you support women preachers, you just made the Bible irrelevant. Now each one may do what is right in their own eyes. As in the times of the Judges. And the end result was judgments on Israel.

 

[Dino246]

1 Timothy 3:1-3 .......
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; "

How many more do you need.????

Now before you post that several translations use the word "Overseer". Correct. However if you read the entire verses, 1-3 you will see that in verse #2, "Husband of one wife" in the original Greek is ἄνδρα μιᾶς γυναικὸς, andra mias gunaikos.

andra = man, husband. “A man, i.e, an adult male person.”
mias = “One, the first cardinal numeral.”
gunaikos = Woman, wife,

So Paul is clearly telling us that the overseer must be a “MAN of one woman” which is translated as “husband of one wife.” This refutes the counter-argument.

But feel free to believe whatever you want to.

1 Timothy 3:12 Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.

Romans 16:1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant (diakonon = deacon) of the church which is at Cenchrea;

A sister was a deacon and was commended by Paul, so either Paul is contradicting himself (not likely), or the restriction, "husband of one wife" does not mean that only men may be deacons, and similarly, it does not mean that for elders either.

Further, "elder" is neither "pastor" nor "preacher".

 

[Edify]

Acts 2 says "your sons & daughters shall prophesy, and also on bondslaves, both men & women.
Thayer's lexicon
to prophesy, i. e. to be a prophet, speak forth by divine inspiration; to predict (Herodotus, Pindar, Euripides, Plato, Plutarch, others);

a. universally, Matthew 7:22.
b. with the idea of foretelling future events pertaining especially to the kingdom of God: Matthew 11:13; Acts 2:17, 18; Acts 21:9; περί τίνος, Matthew 15:7; Mark 7:6; 1 Peter 1:10; ἐπί τίνι, over i. e. concerning one (see ἐπί, B. 2 f. β'., p. 234a), Revelation 10:11; εἰς τινα (i. e. Christ), the Epistle of Barnabas 5, 6 [ET]; προφητεύειν followed by λέγων, with the words uttered by the prophet, Jude 1:14; followed by ὅτι, John 11:51.
c. to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation: Matthew 26:68; Mark 14:65; Luke 22:64, cf. 7:39; John 4:19.
d. to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or in praise of the divine counsels: Luke 1:67; Acts 19:6 (1 Samuel 10:10, 11; 1 Samuel 19:20, 21, etc.); — or, under the like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others (see προφήτης, II. 1 f.), 1 Corinthians 11:4, 5; 1 Corinthians 13:9; 1 Corinthians 14:1, 3, 4, 5, 24, 31, 39.
e. to act as a prophet, discharge the prophetic office: Revelation 11:3. (On the word see Trench, N. T. Synonyms, § vi.)

Now, why would I use these verses, to speak about women preachers? Because the OT prophets prophesied, preached , taught the people, reproved, & comforted just like this lexicon says.
Does that mean every man & woman in the church will do all these things? No, not necessarily. Only when the Holy Spirit prompts them to, and I for one will not try to determine what He wants us to do at any given time.
But since the OT had men & women prophets that told kings what God said & what they needed to do, I see no reason why men & women prophets can't do the same today, you know, under a better covenant established on better promises.

All this is ministry that edifies the body of Christ. Just because a particular denomination or 4 or 8 doesn't believe that anymore isn't my fault. The Bible says it, and anyone who doesn't believe what God's Word says is foolish at least & I'd be afraid to say at most.

Stating that 1/2 the church or so can't speak to the world about their salvation is something I'd be afraid to do, because only the Godhead has such authority.

You want to argue about somebody "usurping" authority, why not discuss why all these people saying women can't preach based on preconceived notions are usurping authority on Christ's church? How dare someone argue against God! How dare someone judge the servant of God! She will stand, for God is able to make her stand, with you or without you.

 

[JesusismyKing2]

I am not taking a side now, were we not told go into the world preaching the Gospel? Could a woman teach , other women while under the authority of men. I have wondered about this?

 

[Dino246]

I am not taking a side now, were we not told go into the world preaching the Gospel? Could a woman teach , other women while under the authority of men. I have wondered about this?

Welcome to CC.

In answer to your question, Yes, absolutely, though the "authority" of a man is certainly not required for one female believer to teach another.