They all understood salvation.
Not just paul.
They all preached grace salvation. Even Jesus preached it.
Its like saying the Holy Spirit didnt understand salvation when HE moved on peter,james,john, and Jesus
Are there two gospels or ONE?
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Not just paul.
They all preached grace salvation. Even Jesus preached it.
Its like saying the Holy Spirit didnt understand salvation when HE moved on peter,james,john, and Jesus
The ot saints are in heaven now.To be clear, yes, I believe "the Church which is His body" will have been in heaven since [the point in time of] "pre-trib" (that is, before the first SEAL [parallel with the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 / Matt24:4/Mk13:5] is opened).
But the "Rapture" pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" (NOT to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints [Daniel was told he would "stand in thy lot at the end of the days [the days of that context]"]; not to Trib saints [Rev20:4]; not to MK saints).
We ("the Church which is His body") return "WITH Him" (FOR the earthly MK time period [or at least its inauguration]). The "guests [plural]" and the "10 virgins [even the 5; plural]" are still on the earth when He "RETURNS" there (following "the MARRIAGE" itself, pertaining solely to "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" Rev19:7.... Rev19:9's PLURALS are distinct [and correlate with all the "BLESSED" passages from the gospels (I'd listed) and even Daniel 12:12's "BLESSED is he that cometh to the 1335 days"... because that's the point in time when the promised and prophesied earthly MK will commence. He (this person/persons) is not lifting off the earth, in this passage, because they are not slated for "Rapture"!])
They were resurrected alongside or after Christ. Taken to heaven.
The bride in 1 thes 4 pretrib.
The "5 foolish bride" martyred by ac
And seen in heaven as the innumerable number.
The 144k are jews and arrive in heaven in rev 14
The jews arrive also in rev 14.
All groups arrive in heaven for a single reason. The gathering to the groom and the feast.
All in heaven as Jesus clearly,clearly depicts.
Not before the resurrection. None of Jesus' disciples understood eternal salvation before the cross. It was hid from them. If they knew that eternal salvation would come through Christ dying on the cross, Satan would have never initiated the cross. This truth was hid from all man until after Christ's resurrection.
Jesus did.
Way before paul
All in the upper room were born again.
Even thomas called him lord and God.
Paul had no exclusive handle on salvation
They had no idea of the cross. The gospel is all about the truth of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The disciples were not anticipating the resurrection. Even when told, they thought it was an idle tale. Peter defended the Lord's arrest. Why would Peter do this if he understood God's plan? Simple, he did not.
I hope you dont think Jesus did not understand the gospel of grace.
Of course the disciples did not preach his death or resurrection.
But the " kingdom vs grace" deal is taken past its truthful dynamic in the pauline only adherants.
For one, grace first came through Jesus
Then peter and paul.
Probably peter first.
Trying to make some point about the disciples not knowing the future is to me a NA.
The question remains,do the pauline emphacisers have a point?
Faintly.
But take a simple dynamic and beat it into a non potable drink.
Grace came through Jesus.
Not paul.
Kingdom vs grace is basically a doorway to despise non pauline writings
How can anyone read the 4 gospels and conclude Jesus only operated outside of grace and no grace was offered to the gentiles??????
Thats what the paulines want us to believe
Thats what the paulines want us to believe
The whole debate has been over the gospel the disciples preached prior to the cross (and only to the Jews) versus the gospel that was taught after the cross (and the whole of this gospel was given to Paul).
Of course, Jesus understood. If I implied that, I apologize.
Prior to the cross, what gospel was he preaching? The gospel of the Kingdom. That's not the same as the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection for sins he preached after the cross.
Dallas "Theological" Seminary (DTS) has done much harm to the church with its teachings. Wronglydivided is a poster child of its error. Andy Stanley is another. And Zane Hodges. John Walvoord. Charles Ryrie. There are more...famous big names who are given a pass because they've been listened to for years, how could they be wrong and in error?
DTS? "Distorting The Scriptures."
There has always been only one Gospel, and it is and has always been that salvation is by grace.
DTS? "Distorting The Scriptures."
There has always been only one Gospel, and it is and has always been that salvation is by grace.
Amen brother. ONE GOSPEL. Lets get it straight.
What was the early church reading? the gospels and the epistles! You expect them to differentiate between two different gospels? They were LUCKY and BLESSED to have the gospel of Luke or ANY gospel!
The Dallas theological cemetary is what it is.
I am currently doing a thesis on 27 gospels, (every epistle/book has a different one). They rotate for every day of the month, but on three days there is no gospel at all, it symbolizes the three days Jesus spent in the grave.
The thesis will be released along with the hyper-dispensational bible translation with notes from all the experts, it will be translated from the codex decepticus.
Is salvation about believing the message of the gospel? Is not believing that message how grace is afforded to the believer? What is that message?
Well, what they DID know (and understand correctly) was the message that Jesus gave them to share (Matt10:7), "As ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of the heavens is at hand."
[this involves Jesus' tangible Personal Presence]
ADDING THIS:
[quoting]
Three Spheres of Christ's Glory - Andrew Miller [source: Bible Truth Publishers]
"In 1 Cor. 10:32 the apostle furnishes us with a classification of mankind which greatly helps not only to the understanding of prophecy but to the whole word of God. "Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God." Here we have the three great spheres in which the glory of Christ is displayed. As it respects man's condition before God in reference to eternity, there are but two classes, the saved and unsaved-those who have been really born again, and those who are still in nature's darkness and unbelief. But with regard to God's government of the world there are three classes-Jews, Gentiles, and the church; and no one can rightly divide the word of God who overlooks this division. To trace through scripture God's purpose concerning these three classes is the surest way to ascertain the order of God's dispensations, and the harmony of all portions of the holy scriptures with each other. At present we can only refer to a few passages of scripture by way of introducing the reader to this threefold purpose of God."
https://bibletruthpublishers.com/th...f-their-origin-progress-and-testimony/la58744
[end quoting; bold and underline mine--with certain caveats to remainder of article]
[tried to post the following over at BF but due to present "glitches" in the system, I was unable to get it posted there and am prevented from posting or PM'ing at all]
From William Kelly:
[quoting]
"But, this is not the only point of interest in this appendix to the prophecy. For the Lord has given us the positive proof, by the way in which verse 32 stands here, that "this generation" cannot mean a mere chronological space of thirty or even one hundred years, for it is brought in after the running out of Gentile times and the coming of the Son of man with power and glory, events still unfulfilled. Its force is moral; not exactly the nation of Israel but that Christ-rejecting race which then refused their Messiah as they do still. This will go on till all these solemn threats of judgment are accomplished. It is profitable to remark that here, not in doctrine or in practice only, but in these unfoldings of the future, the Lord pledges the impossibility of failing in His words. The Lord does not say that this generation "shall not pass away till the temple is destroyed or the city taken, but till all be fulfilled. Now, He had introduced the subsequent treading down of Jerusalem to the end of Israel's trials at His appearing, and He declares that this generation shall not pass away till then; as indeed it is only then grace will form a new [future] generation, the generation [yet] to come. The more we hold fast the continuity of the stream of the prophecy, as distinguished from the crisis in Matthew and Mark, the greater will be seen to be the importance of this remark."
--William Kelly, Luke 21 Commentary
[end quoting; bold, underline, and brackets mine]
So "gospel" means "good news" and "this gospel OF THE KINGDOM" will [futurely] NECESSARILY INCLUDE that "IT IS NEAR!" (when they "SEE" these things [listed/named in the Olivet Discourse--starting with the INITIAL BP: Matt24:4/Mt13:5 'A CERTAIN ONE' (parallel with SEAL #1) and 1Th5:2-3/2Th2:8a]--things which cannot be said PRESENTLY, and will not be in existence until 7b/2:3/2:1 [2Th] takes place [those others will occur "IN THAT DAY" (which is a time period), not in "this present age [singular]"])
From William Kelly:
[quoting]
"But, this is not the only point of interest in this appendix to the prophecy. For the Lord has given us the positive proof, by the way in which verse 32 stands here, that "this generation" cannot mean a mere chronological space of thirty or even one hundred years, for it is brought in after the running out of Gentile times and the coming of the Son of man with power and glory, events still unfulfilled. Its force is moral; not exactly the nation of Israel but that Christ-rejecting race which then refused their Messiah as they do still. This will go on till all these solemn threats of judgment are accomplished. It is profitable to remark that here, not in doctrine or in practice only, but in these unfoldings of the future, the Lord pledges the impossibility of failing in His words. The Lord does not say that this generation "shall not pass away till the temple is destroyed or the city taken, but till all be fulfilled. Now, He had introduced the subsequent treading down of Jerusalem to the end of Israel's trials at His appearing, and He declares that this generation shall not pass away till then; as indeed it is only then grace will form a new [future] generation, the generation [yet] to come. The more we hold fast the continuity of the stream of the prophecy, as distinguished from the crisis in Matthew and Mark, the greater will be seen to be the importance of this remark."
--William Kelly, Luke 21 Commentary
[end quoting; bold, underline, and brackets mine]
So "gospel" means "good news" and "this gospel OF THE KINGDOM" will [futurely] NECESSARILY INCLUDE that "IT IS NEAR!" (when they "SEE" these things [listed/named in the Olivet Discourse--starting with the INITIAL BP: Matt24:4/Mt13:5 'A CERTAIN ONE' (parallel with SEAL #1) and 1Th5:2-3/2Th2:8a]--things which cannot be said PRESENTLY, and will not be in existence until 7b/2:3/2:1 [2Th] takes place [those others will occur "IN THAT DAY" (which is a time period), not in "this present age [singular]"])
If they didn't understand it, what gospel message were they preaching prior to the cross?
Oh, bosh! There is no rapture in Rev. 14. The 144,000 Israelis are flesh and blood of their respective tribes that God is planning to keep alive through the GT.
Rev. 7:3, 4 "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."
No one is in heaven and no one is going there (John 3:13).
There is no Pre-trib rapture, there are no humans in heaven, there are no humans going to heaven. Heaven "The Kingdom of" is coming to earth with Jesus Christ. There are only two resurrections (not counting Christ's): 1. At His coming. 2. After the 1000 years.
Yes!
After the cross (and His resurrection)… 1 Corinthians 15:1-17 informs us that (NOW) "His Resurrection" (believing THAT aspect as well) is an ESSENTIAL ASPECT of "the faith" and "salvation" (they did not know this even at the time of John 20:9 [Peter and that other disciple at the empty tomb], where it says, "For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." [at which time, by the way, it only says that "that other disciple" saw [the grave clothes] "and believed"... it does not state this of Peter])