Are martyrs who are in heresy saved or not?
- Thread starter Hakawaka
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Let's expand the scope to see if it makes sense:
If a Moslem dies for their cause, are they saved? If a Communist dies for their cause, are they saved? If an atheist dies for their cause, are they saved?
The answer in all cases, including those you proposed, is No. There is one and only one way to be saved: to trust in Jesus Christ, His atoning death, and His resurrection. None of the above believe that without corrupting or rejecting them somehow.
If a Moslem dies for their cause, are they saved? If a Communist dies for their cause, are they saved? If an atheist dies for their cause, are they saved?
The answer in all cases, including those you proposed, is No. There is one and only one way to be saved: to trust in Jesus Christ, His atoning death, and His resurrection. None of the above believe that without corrupting or rejecting them somehow.
-
3
- Show all
I can't think offhand of any scriptures that address this exact question; but I do know that many people have strong convictions they are willing to die for. That doesn't mean those convictions are in accordance with the truth. Many people profess Christ but deny Him by their actions. Many Catholics would no doubt die for Christ's name; but the Christ they profess to know is a false Christ.
"They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work." Titus 1:16
"They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work." Titus 1:16
-
1
-
1
- Show all
We need to expand the question all of the way, which we can do as follows:
We can denote GRFS by the use of the Greek word kerygma, meaning proclamation or preaching, referring to the good news (Gospel) concerning salvation to heaven and from a just hell (the DOD, cf. RM 1:16, GL 1:6-12, CL 1:21-23). This Gospel was preached by Peter (in ACTS 2:22-24) and summarized by Paul (in 1CR 15:1-8). The salient points include: Jesus was a man, accredited by God (to be Messiah), who died on a cross, but who was raised or resurrected from the dead. Messiah is the Way to heaven.
An obvious question to ask at this point is, “What is GRFS for those who have never heard of Jesus?” (which includes everyone living B.C. and millions of people who have lived A.D.) If God loves the world (JN 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (2TM 2:4), then He must provide an opportunity. God’s just judgment is illustrated by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents (MT 25:14-29), which indicates that God will judge souls on the basis of the truth (Word = Christ per JN 1:1f.) they have received.
Three ways God/Christ is encountered include:
1. general revelation, which includes meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work. Paul says men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (RM 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (CL 1:23, RM 10:13-18, GL 3:8).
2. the inner conscience, a natural or “common” sense (RM 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture; and
3. special revelation (1PT 1:8-12), which refers to the biblical and especially NT teaching regarding God’s history of salvation. Again, the Parable of the Talents indicates that souls are saved via faith in God/ Christ as revealed (cf. 1CR 10:1-5). Truthseekers around the world in all times are pilgrims at various places along the road of life, and all true roads eventually lead to the Way to eternal life in heaven (JN 14:6, ACTS 24:14, PHP 2:10-11). All truth leads to One Way.
Regarding the third mode of revelation (NT), the kerygma or GRFS can be stated in various ways, which may cause confusion. Some statements (e.g. ACTS 16:31, quoted previously, & EPH 2:8-9) are in terms of believing right, and others (e.g. MT 7:21, “only he who does the will of my Father will enter heaven”, cf. GL 6:7-9 & EPH 2:10) are in terms of behaving right. This prompts the question: Is salvation obtained by believing God’s words or by doing God’s works? The answer is indicated by John 6:29: “The work of God is to believe in the one [Messiah/Christ] He has sent.” As Jesus stated (in JN 14:6): “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (JN 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1JN 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son. If a moralist truthseeker (on the basis of general revelation) is taught about God (perhaps via the OT or Qur’an), then he/she may choose to believe in God or become a theist. If theists are taught the Gospel (NT), then they may choose to believe/accept Jesus as Christ. In both cases salvation is a gift from God received by faith “from first to last” (RM 1:17).
Thus, regarding those we do not know personally only God knows who satisfied His RFS, but regarding our acquaintances
we should be able to discern whether their beliefs contradict faith in the Gospel, "Jesus is Messiah and Lord".
We can denote GRFS by the use of the Greek word kerygma, meaning proclamation or preaching, referring to the good news (Gospel) concerning salvation to heaven and from a just hell (the DOD, cf. RM 1:16, GL 1:6-12, CL 1:21-23). This Gospel was preached by Peter (in ACTS 2:22-24) and summarized by Paul (in 1CR 15:1-8). The salient points include: Jesus was a man, accredited by God (to be Messiah), who died on a cross, but who was raised or resurrected from the dead. Messiah is the Way to heaven.
An obvious question to ask at this point is, “What is GRFS for those who have never heard of Jesus?” (which includes everyone living B.C. and millions of people who have lived A.D.) If God loves the world (JN 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (2TM 2:4), then He must provide an opportunity. God’s just judgment is illustrated by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents (MT 25:14-29), which indicates that God will judge souls on the basis of the truth (Word = Christ per JN 1:1f.) they have received.
Three ways God/Christ is encountered include:
1. general revelation, which includes meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work. Paul says men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (RM 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (CL 1:23, RM 10:13-18, GL 3:8).
2. the inner conscience, a natural or “common” sense (RM 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture; and
3. special revelation (1PT 1:8-12), which refers to the biblical and especially NT teaching regarding God’s history of salvation. Again, the Parable of the Talents indicates that souls are saved via faith in God/ Christ as revealed (cf. 1CR 10:1-5). Truthseekers around the world in all times are pilgrims at various places along the road of life, and all true roads eventually lead to the Way to eternal life in heaven (JN 14:6, ACTS 24:14, PHP 2:10-11). All truth leads to One Way.
Regarding the third mode of revelation (NT), the kerygma or GRFS can be stated in various ways, which may cause confusion. Some statements (e.g. ACTS 16:31, quoted previously, & EPH 2:8-9) are in terms of believing right, and others (e.g. MT 7:21, “only he who does the will of my Father will enter heaven”, cf. GL 6:7-9 & EPH 2:10) are in terms of behaving right. This prompts the question: Is salvation obtained by believing God’s words or by doing God’s works? The answer is indicated by John 6:29: “The work of God is to believe in the one [Messiah/Christ] He has sent.” As Jesus stated (in JN 14:6): “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (JN 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1JN 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son. If a moralist truthseeker (on the basis of general revelation) is taught about God (perhaps via the OT or Qur’an), then he/she may choose to believe in God or become a theist. If theists are taught the Gospel (NT), then they may choose to believe/accept Jesus as Christ. In both cases salvation is a gift from God received by faith “from first to last” (RM 1:17).
Thus, regarding those we do not know personally only God knows who satisfied His RFS, but regarding our acquaintances
we should be able to discern whether their beliefs contradict faith in the Gospel, "Jesus is Messiah and Lord".
When the Covid 19 vaccine was enforced where you couldn't work if you didn't receive it, some unsaved people said that if the mark of the beast is like the vaccine, that they would rather die.
I told them, well, you should get saved then because if you die without making Jesus your Lord and Savior, you'd have died for nothing!
🚟
I told them, well, you should get saved then because if you die without making Jesus your Lord and Savior, you'd have died for nothing!
🚟
-
1
- Show all
I think( just my belief )that it’s gonna eventually come down to this for every person so I couldn’t really say
“For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Romans 14:9-12 KJV
“Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.”
1 Corinthians 4:5 KJV
We can’t see people’s hearts and motives and understandings but God knows us from within. It’s hard to make a judgement about someone’s salvation even if we know what they think is wrong regarding some doctrine .
Jesus earned that when he suffered on the cross and he really wants to save everyone who will be saved They too will all have to face the judgement seat of Christ to a Man but will they have remission of thier sins in his name when they appear ?
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
But together with that remember this
“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
Acts 10:34-35, 42-43
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38
“For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Romans 14:9-12 KJV
“Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.”
1 Corinthians 4:5 KJV
We can’t see people’s hearts and motives and understandings but God knows us from within. It’s hard to make a judgement about someone’s salvation even if we know what they think is wrong regarding some doctrine .
Jesus earned that when he suffered on the cross and he really wants to save everyone who will be saved They too will all have to face the judgement seat of Christ to a Man but will they have remission of thier sins in his name when they appear ?
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
But together with that remember this
“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
Acts 10:34-35, 42-43
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38
-
1
- Show all