Apostasy 101
- Thread starter Chris1975
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Simple. Matthew 5v48 is answered by 1 John 1v7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Then we are perfect. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.
However,
1 John 1v6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
No. This just shows your ongoing confusion.
You are stuck on thinking that YOUR WORK fulfills the Righteousness required of God.
Matthew 5:48 is answered by Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
It takes a lot of labour and its a heavy load to be Perfect like our Father in Heaven is Perfect.
Matthew 11:28 is further explained in John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
This is where the fruit of obedience and righteousness is produced. Not a requirement that must be met but a gift that is given by Christ.
Strawman.
I think you know that Christ1975 does not believe that He is saved by work. Is this the last and only straw you have left to muddy the waters with?
I think you are not understanding what strawman means.
I'm not the one manufacturing these requirements that must be met. And if they aren't met then Salvation is lost.
This is Chris1975 that is showing this.
And I definitely do NOT know that Chris does not believe that he is saved by his work. Its sure pointing that way. Of course it is really easy to say "I don't believe I am saved by my work" but then go on to list all the things you have to do in order to gain salvation.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
You can not read his posts and think he does not preach works. That’s impossible
It is clear that many OSASers have retreated far back to this line of 'defense'. Perhaps the truth has won out and they are just trying to save face and cover tail by erecting a doctrinally unsound STRAWMAN that doesn't understand salvation by grace and faith, then accusing all those that refuse to follow OSAS as being that STRAWMAN. I will let you have the last word here if you think it will help you.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Naw. I do not need the last word
This post is the perfect example of a straw man. As it has nothing to do with what I said but is just a. Well a strawman
You showed it well and for that I thank you
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
well confusing working for your salvation with actually BEING one who is a 'doer of the word' is par for the course for quite a few it seems
it will not matter how many times you agree that salvation is by faith, the minute you want to put that faith into action you are going to be accused for working for your salvation
then you will be told that yes, you should act as becomes a believer, so confusion takes over
I don't get into this outrageously detrimental debate because it gets real ugly
and it doesn't have to
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
already here it would seem
I just read James again this am and there is no way you can walk away from that book thinking you do not play a part
and no one says, including James, that you work for salvation
basically James is saying your actions state what you really believe
not hard to understand at all
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
he recently made a thread in which he stated James was not written to believers
so ...
Its a fleshly gospel. You can have a superficial belief in Christ as saviour (but not as Lord). You don't need to repent because you repented sometime at conversion (if at all). You don't need to CONTINUE to BELIEVE because you can throw the law-book at God and demand that He fulfills the promise of salvation as a free gift. Also obtained at some point around conversion. No cross for you. No dying to self. No heeding the calls to holiness (because that would be works). Denying the plain word of God when confronted with it. Ignore the biblical warnings to believers....and the list goes on and on. Yet they comfort themselves that they have the truth, whilst missing all the above. Instead of humbling themselves and sincerely going to God in prayer and asking Him to show them the truth, whatever the outcome. If change is needed, then make the change. But yet they walk the tightrope. And the clock is running out.
Who cares if you have been vigorously defending what you thought to be the true gospel for the last few years. If God (the Holy Spirit) shows you the error, why not embrace the truth. Forget what's behind. Welcome the word of God. The entirety of scripture. The scriptural calls to holiness are BEAUTIFUL and ENCOURAGING. Yes, at times fearful (The Fear of the Lord is the Beginning of Knowledge, Understanding and Wisdom). But these Fear not the Lord. And we see these three things missing.....Knowledge, Understanding and Wisdom. And this comes through so evidently in these discussions.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
we have all those flavors offered around here
now I am not a 'Lordship Salvation' a la Monsieur MacArthur, but as Jesus said, do not call me Lord if you do not do the things I tell you
some will tell you that we do not have to accept Christ's words anymore because he was under law at the time and that is all Old Covenant stuff.
and this is not to say that the same people do not try to live as they should, but it is head banging confusing to read some of the comments that pass for biblical doctrine
and you see if you even wish to discuss anything to the contrary, you are almost immediately labelled a 'works salvationist'
I think the Calvinists are worse though
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them for this is the law and the prophets.
Do you do, or do you not do it this way? Is this a requirement? (And I am not asking if it is about doing it in love, I am asking if it is about DOING).
This obviously has nothing to do with RECEIVING the GIFT of Salvation, because it is through that gift that you DESIRE to do the will of God.
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat
Who are the many being spoken of here?
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Is this "the narrow way" a requirement? Do you think God considers the "narrow way" consisting of more than "love" our way?
Do you believe there are evil spirits in the world whos ONLY MISSION, it to seduce you to TURN AWAY from, or BE DECEIVED by?
Where does this fit in? How is it you phrase the doing of works of God?
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
I absolutely preach works, though the works I preach have nothing to do with God gracing me with salvation. Well, for one, it would be impossible to be doing any works for God if I had NOT ALREADY received the gift. And two, it would not do any good to work for something He had already given. It's just common sense to me.
So, for the record yes, I believe that the gift of salvation can be lost or thrown away. And I believe we are commanded to do works as sons of God. I also believe we must keep and obey commands given us. I don't believe it is hard at all, because of the holy Spirit and my loving Him back just make for a peaceful and joyous life. And though I don't believe there is some minimum amount you must do or lose their salvation, I do believe those who don't do much will be very naked in the future.
I believe those who lose their salvation lose it only because THEY CHOSE to. I also believe He is long suffering and gives a person every chance, even corrections to guide them back but at some point, the point He feels he is being mocked, then that is it, He is done and that is why we were given this verse
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
God gives the eternal gift into our hands. If we then QUIT, then He is just going to say I never knew you. (Blotted out) No doctrine gonna change that for me.
Whomsoever WOULD, not Whomsoever WOULD NOT, and that isn't on God. He isn't going to MAKE us do anything. If that were true then what would be the point. He would have just assigned everyone their positions and went from there. Free will.
Follow Gods way and you are assured, not a single doubt.
Do it Gods way OR choose the way of the world.
We are straight up told the Word falls upon all different kinds of ground. Some doesn't take root, some does but dries up, some go all the way. God offered the gift and some didn't cherish it.
Satan followed God, and then he chose not to. God didn't change. Satan did. God no longer owes ANYTHING to him no matter what God may have ever promised because SATAN went from loving God to hating him and killing Christ. It was Satan who threw it all away. Satan probably believed in some doctrine that told him God could never do that.
Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived God is not mocked for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. (GOD remains the same)
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Galatians 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
The bible isn't written to "unbelievers", they can't even understand it, no it is written to us, and
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
No matter how many people say "you are just a works salvationist".
So, for the record yes, I believe that the gift of salvation can be lost or thrown away. And I believe we are commanded to do works as sons of God. I also believe we must keep and obey commands given us. I don't believe it is hard at all, because of the holy Spirit and my loving Him back just make for a peaceful and joyous life. And though I don't believe there is some minimum amount you must do or lose their salvation, I do believe those who don't do much will be very naked in the future.
I believe those who lose their salvation lose it only because THEY CHOSE to. I also believe He is long suffering and gives a person every chance, even corrections to guide them back but at some point, the point He feels he is being mocked, then that is it, He is done and that is why we were given this verse
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
God gives the eternal gift into our hands. If we then QUIT, then He is just going to say I never knew you. (Blotted out) No doctrine gonna change that for me.
Whomsoever WOULD, not Whomsoever WOULD NOT, and that isn't on God. He isn't going to MAKE us do anything. If that were true then what would be the point. He would have just assigned everyone their positions and went from there. Free will.
Follow Gods way and you are assured, not a single doubt.
Do it Gods way OR choose the way of the world.
We are straight up told the Word falls upon all different kinds of ground. Some doesn't take root, some does but dries up, some go all the way. God offered the gift and some didn't cherish it.
Satan followed God, and then he chose not to. God didn't change. Satan did. God no longer owes ANYTHING to him no matter what God may have ever promised because SATAN went from loving God to hating him and killing Christ. It was Satan who threw it all away. Satan probably believed in some doctrine that told him God could never do that.
Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived God is not mocked for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. (GOD remains the same)
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Galatians 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
The bible isn't written to "unbelievers", they can't even understand it, no it is written to us, and
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
No matter how many people say "you are just a works salvationist".
we have all those flavors offered around here
now I am not a 'Lordship Salvation' a la Monsieur MacArthur, but as Jesus said, do not call me Lord if you do not do the things I tell you
some will tell you that we do not have to accept Christ's words anymore because he was under law at the time and that is all Old Covenant stuff.
and this is not to say that the same people do not try to live as they should, but it is head banging confusing to read some of the comments that pass for biblical doctrine
and you see if you even wish to discuss anything to the contrary, you are almost immediately labelled a 'works salvationist'
I think the Calvinists are worse though
I agree, but this is about the smiley comments and is there any chance that we will get them?
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
Actually most if not all of those so called OSASers here, believe that James ch2 saying, that good works must be shown after you believe, in order for you to be truly saved.
There is not really significant differences between that, and those who believe that you need believe and do works, in order to be saved.
If B must follow A in order to show C, how is that different from saying you need A + B to get C?
Works do not increase salvation. I will say if you lack works, you do not grow and produce good fruit. There is a chance that a person can fall back into their old ways if they are not examining themselves to see if they are still in the faith. The real question with ragards to works should be is “ Am I doing this because I love my neighbor and want to glorify God or am I doing this for my own self gratification.”?