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EleventhHour
Guest
Stop making fun of her turtleneck. I like it.
Yeah turtle neck sweaters are coming back in style and I am always ahead of new fashion trends.
Apostasy 101
- Thread starter Chris1975
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Yeah turtle neck sweaters are coming back in style and I am always ahead of new fashion trends.
It is not possible for Jesus to shed His blood on the cross again. It is not plausible and it is not necessary. What is necessary is for us to maintain a meek, penitent heart full of appreciation for what He did on the Cross the first and only time He hung there. I am sorry if I offended you with jesting. This is a very serious thing. Please forgive.
There is nothing stated that the Galatians stopped believing in Christ for justification.
They probably did just like the legalists and judaizers do now and tell everyone they don't work at the law for justification. They just work at the law for fun.
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EleventhHour
Guest
You got that right about the cross..
Amen
And agree it is serious but lest we kill each with words I do not mind a bit of humor.
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EleventhHour
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EleventhHour
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I am terrified of English teachers. No joke.
Studied English but do not teach it, so you are safe and no need to fear.
Hebrews 10
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 [c]if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
So we all know Hebrews 6v4-6 by now. Its so obvious what this means, isn't it? But lets go further.....from verse 7-8
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
- When the bible looks at soil or earth is can represent the hearts of mankind (Parable sower - seed falls on different types of soil (hearts)).
- now look at verse 7 above - the earth (our heart) drinks in rain (water "from heaven" - representing what God supplies. His Gift as can be seen in verse 4). This rain (His Gift) supplies what we need to grow. If our earth (hearts) bring forth herbs - we receive blessing. If our earth (hearts) bring forth thorns and briers, it is REJECTED, and BURNED. This is loss of salvation.
-What is YOUR response to the Gift that has been given?
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 [c]if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
So we all know Hebrews 6v4-6 by now. Its so obvious what this means, isn't it? But lets go further.....from verse 7-8
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
- When the bible looks at soil or earth is can represent the hearts of mankind (Parable sower - seed falls on different types of soil (hearts)).
- now look at verse 7 above - the earth (our heart) drinks in rain (water "from heaven" - representing what God supplies. His Gift as can be seen in verse 4). This rain (His Gift) supplies what we need to grow. If our earth (hearts) bring forth herbs - we receive blessing. If our earth (hearts) bring forth thorns and briers, it is REJECTED, and BURNED. This is loss of salvation.
-What is YOUR response to the Gift that has been given?
There is no warning to NOT fall away from Christ.
The warning is to NOT attempt to use the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus in the same manner that they use sacrifice of animals.
Such as thinking I can do what benefits my flesh now and then just sacrifice an animal for it later.
OK Grandpa. Use this forum, with step by step scriptures to show how you come to that conclusion for Hebrews 10 (don't insert supposition). Just use the scriptures as they are. Go as far back in Hebrews as you wish. Looking for the conclusive link.
It is pretty obvious.
It starts out it is IMPOSSIBLE...
Then continues with IF....
If you look at scripture through the lens of working for your salvation or earning grace then you will see all these warnings about losing your salvation and grace being taken away. Because it is already what YOU BELIEVE.
But when you are ACTUALLY saved and realize it is not because of your works you start to see that those warnings aren't for Saved people but for people who are still trying to work for their salvation and earn Grace.
It is IMPOSSIBLE.
IF this verse was stating what you are TRYING to make it state it would say it is POSSIBLE for those once enlightened WHEN they fall away they can't return to repentance.
This is a HYPOTHETICAL situation that is IMPOSSIBLE to begin with.
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EleventhHour
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EleventhHour
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Since you will not do it .... I will..
what is impossible is to renew oneself to repentance ... the author is using the word repentance to mean be born again... one cannot be born again once again.
It is a singular event... the Jews though that like the sacrifices the new birth had to be repeated...the author is stating no because that would be like stating that Jesus had to go back to the cross...putting Jesus to open shame as if His work was not sufficient.
So read carefully do you see the author is correcting your false doctrine.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Not surprised... yet you have audacity to claim someone else practices light belief.
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EleventhHour
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And learn what fall away means in context of the salvation message... saved has one meaning.
Falling away from grace in no way means being unjustified... non existent concept.
Even in our own courts there is no double jeopardy.
Don't use your techniques? Imagination and supposition?
Hebrews 10:1-4
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Sacrificing bulls and goats didn't take away sins. It didn't purge the conscience from sin. Those who were sacrificing these bulls and goats were using them as an appeasement to God and not as a way to purge their conscience from sin.
Hebrews 10:26-29
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Verse 28 shows you that Moses Law is still what is being discussed and compared.
You can't just sacrifice Christ next Saturday and be good. Christs sacrifice doesn't work the same way they were using animal sacrifice.
How much worse would the punishment be if someone were to use Christs Sacrifice for a way to be Super Sinful? Because Christs Sacrifice is not designed to be used in such a fashion.
Someone who is saved knows this.
Only someone who is familiar with the animal sacrifice system would probably even think to use Christ in a manner that is unholy and does "despite" to the Spirit of Grace.
I must admit that I'm not very impressed with all this Exegeting. To me it just looks like another random post on CC. Is this ^^^^ the quality Exegesis and Hermaneutics that we have all been anticipating? Not very impressed. Was expecting some Greek to be thrown about. You had hyped it up too much to be honest.
It can only be lost by someone who didn't have it to begin with.
Otherwise, No, Salvation can't be lost.
This is a statement of IMPOSSIBILITY.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened IF they should fall away.
You are saying the opposite.
You are saying it is POSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened WHEN they fall away they cannot be renewed to repentance.