Anthropomorphism-specific to God.

[Didymous]

For those unfamiliar with the term, it basically means attributing human characteristics or behaviors to God.
This is , I believe, why we have so many disagreements and and divisions amongst us.
One example that comes to mind is the belief of many that God the Father had to turn away from Jesus on the cross. Why? Because God cannot look upon sin? Really? I guess Habakkuk 1:13 says that God is "of pure eyes to behold evil, and canst not look upon iniquity. That's the first part of the verse: the rest of it make clear that God does indeed look upon sin, so Habakkuk was trying to make God the way he thought God should be. But does that make any sense?
God made us, bit He didn't make us sin. Jesus became sin, yet as God He's still perfect, and neither evil, nor affected by the sin as are we. God's perfect like that. We are not. God can do things we can't, and still be perfect-without contradiction. This is just one thing on this subject that came to mind.
I was told for years, by kind-hearted, but ignorant people that the God turned away from Jesus, and God couldn't look upon sin. When I read the Bible, I realized I'd been deceived by kind-hearted, but ignorant people.

 

[Shamah]

Habbakuk 1:13 You, whose eyes are too clean to see evil, You are not able to look on wrong. Why do You look on those who act treacherously – keep silent when the wrong devours one more righteous than he?"

It seems Habbakuk is reasoning why Yah lets evil continue. IN chapter 2 he speaks of repayment;

Habbakuk 2:16 “You shall be filled with shame instead of esteem. Drink, you too, and be exposed as uncircumcised! The cup of the right hand of יהוה shall come around to you, and great shame upon your esteem."

Well I would say YHWH allows free will and is patient;

Ezekiyl 18:23, “Have I any pleasure in the death of the wrong?” declares the Master יהוה. “Is it not that he should turn from his ways, and live?”

I agree Yah does not look upon evil:


1 Peter/Kepha 3:12, "For the eyes of YHWH are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers; but the face of YHWH is against those who do evil."


Psalm 34:12-16, “Who is the man who desires life, Who loves many days, in order to see good? Keep your tongue from evil, And your lips from speaking deceit. Turn away from evil and do righteousness; Seek peace, and pursue it. The eyes of יהוה are on the righteous, And His ears unto their cry. The face of יהוה is against evil-doers, To cut off their remembrance from the earth.”


Proverbs 15:29, "YHWH is far from the wicked, but He hears the prayer of the righteous."


Micah 3:4, "Therefore, when they cry to יהוה He does not answer them, and hides His face from them at that time, as they have made their deeds evil."

and will repay;


Revelation 6:15-17, “And the sovereigns of the earth, and the great ones, and the rich ones, and the commanders, and the mighty, and every slave and every free one, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us (Hos 10:8) from the face of Him sitting on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, because the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”


Malachi 3:2 “And who is able to bear the day of His coming, and who is able to stand when He appears? For He is like the fire of a refiner, and like the soap of a launderer.”

Also why this:

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”"

I believe it is because this is the only time the Spirit of YHWH ever departed from Him;

John 14:16-17, “And I shall ask the Father, and He shall give you another Helper, to stay with you forever the Spirit of the Truth, whom the world is unable to receive, because it does not see Him or know Him. But you know Him, for He stays with you and shall be in you.”


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:24, “And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the one guarding His commands stays in Him[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]

Psalms 51:10-11, “Create in me a clean heart, O Mighty One, And renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Set-apart Spirit from me.”

Im open to other explanations and would like Scriptual support

 

[Didymous]

Habbakuk 1:13 You, whose eyes are too clean to see evil, You are not able to look on wrong. Why do You look on those who act treacherously – keep silent when the wrong devours one more righteous than he?"

It seems Habbakuk is reasoning why Yah lets evil continue. IN chapter 2 he speaks of repayment;

Habbakuk 2:16 “You shall be filled with shame instead of esteem. Drink, you too, and be exposed as uncircumcised! The cup of the right hand of יהוה shall come around to you, and great shame upon your esteem."

Well I would say YHWH allows free will and is patient;

Ezekiyl 18:23, “Have I any pleasure in the death of the wrong?” declares the Master יהוה. “Is it not that he should turn from his ways, and live?”

I agree Yah does not look upon evil:


1 Peter/Kepha 3:12, "For the eyes of YHWH are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers; but the face of YHWH is against those who do evil."


Psalm 34:12-16, “Who is the man who desires life, Who loves many days, in order to see good? Keep your tongue from evil, And your lips from speaking deceit. Turn away from evil and do righteousness; Seek peace, and pursue it. The eyes of יהוה are on the righteous, And His ears unto their cry. The face of יהוה is against evil-doers, To cut off their remembrance from the earth.”


Proverbs 15:29, "YHWH is far from the wicked, but He hears the prayer of the righteous."


Micah 3:4, "Therefore, when they cry to יהוה He does not answer them, and hides His face from them at that time, as they have made their deeds evil."

and will repay;


Revelation 6:15-17, “And the sovereigns of the earth, and the great ones, and the rich ones, and the commanders, and the mighty, and every slave and every free one, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us (Hos 10:8) from the face of Him sitting on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, because the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”


Malachi 3:2 “And who is able to bear the day of His coming, and who is able to stand when He appears? For He is like the fire of a refiner, and like the soap of a launderer.”

Also why this:

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”"

I believe it is because this is the only time the Spirit of YHWH ever departed from Him;

John 14:16-17, “And I shall ask the Father, and He shall give you another Helper, to stay with you forever the Spirit of the Truth, whom the world is unable to receive, because it does not see Him or know Him. But you know Him, for He stays with you and shall be in you.”


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:24, “And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the one guarding His commands stays in Him[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]

Psalms 51:10-11, “Create in me a clean heart, O Mighty One, And renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Set-apart Spirit from me.”

Im open to other explanations and would like Scriptual support

You posted a lot of stuff, but I'm not sure of your point. What is your point, Shamah?

 

[Shamah]

You posted a lot of stuff, but I'm not sure of your point. What is your point, Shamah?

I was trying to be complete and touch on most of what you said, giving my view of Habbakuk verse you quoted and giving my take on Yahshua on the execution stake and why He said " why have you forsaken me" I beleive that was the only time He ever felt the Spirit of YHWH leave Him and I gave a few other verses to show it possible concerning Scriptual evidence.

 

[Didymous]

I was trying to be complete and touch on most of what you said, giving my view of Habbakuk verse you quoted and giving my take on Yahshua on the execution stake and why He said " why have you forsaken me" I beleive that was the only time He ever felt the Spirit of YHWH leave Him and I gave a few other verses to show it possible concerning Scriptual evidence.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I appreciate your take on this.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Didymous,

Thanks for posting. So far I seem to enjoy all your posts as you come across as genuine in your questions and answers. (Just wanted to say that because I have an internal motivation of "Never leave an honest compliment unspoken." )

My reply might seem to be a canned response but it's said with more of a "Hey, I'm seeing a trend in your posts and there's a single way to solve them all". And it's to point you towards God because he's way better than all of us in the BDF.

My reply is basically this:

That's a great question that I haven't yet directly asked God about. I will likely ask God (since you brought it to my attention) but rather than waiting for God to explain it to me, then me explain it to you...why don't you simply pose your question to God and continue to ponder it until he gives you the answer?

Again, my apologies if that sounds like a canned answer but once you rely on that method a time or two, you'll find that God is able to answer your deepest questions directly.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Didymous]

Didymous,

Thanks for posting. So far I seem to enjoy all your posts as you come across as genuine in your questions and answers. (Just wanted to say that because I have an internal motivation of "Never leave an honest compliment unspoken." )

My reply might seem to be a canned response but it's said with more of a "Hey, I'm seeing a trend in your posts and there's a single way to solve them all". And it's to point you towards God because he's way better than all of us in the BDF.

My reply is basically this:

That's a great question that I haven't yet directly asked God about. I will likely ask God (since you brought it to my attention) but rather than waiting for God to explain it to me, then me explain it to you...why don't you simply pose your question to God and continue to ponder it until he gives you the answer?

Again, my apologies if that sounds like a canned answer but once you rely on that method a time or two, you'll find that God is able to answer your deepest questions directly.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

No worries, Kelby. I always enjoy any input you have to offer on any thread to date. I actually did that for many of the misguided myths I was given in ignorance by sincerely loving people. For the ones I received no answer for, I deemed them unimportant in God's estimation. May peace and blessings be multiplied unto you, in His name, amen.

 

[trofimus]

What is meant by "the Father had to turn away from Jesus on the cross"?

The moment Jesus cried "Father, Father, why have you forsaken me"?

 

[Didymous]

What is meant by "the Father had to turn away from Jesus on the cross"?

The moment Jesus cried "Father, Father, why have you forsaken me"?

I'm sure you know Jesus fulfilled a prophecy from Psalm 22 when He said that. I don't need to debate the matter, and you are free to believe as you wish.

 

[trofimus]

I'm sure you know Jesus fulfilled a prophecy from Psalm 22 when He said that. I don't need to debate the matter, and you are free to believe as you wish.

My question was about your OP. What you mean by the belief that "Father had to turn away". If this event or something else.

I have not found it in the OP, just a reference to "belief of many".

 

[Johnny_B]

Habakkuk 1:13 ESV “You who are of purer eyes than to see evil and cannot look at wrong, why do you idly look at traitors and remain silent when the wicked swallows up the man more righteous than he?” The point of Habakkuk 1:13, is that the Lord is so Holy that He does not approve evil, yet He has favor on sinners by saving them and if you want to apply this verse to the death of Christ. The question is why did He stay silent when the wicked killed (swallows up) the one more holy then them? That is Christ.

As far as Jesus saying "My God, My God why have you forsaken my" Matthew 27:46 “Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. 46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” 47And some of the bystanders, hearing it, said, “This man is calling Elijah.” 48And one of them at once ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine, and put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink. 49But the others said, “Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to save him.” 50And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.” Or as Luke recorded it in Luke 23:46 “Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.”

But this was not done to fulfill the prophesy of Psalm 22, even those it did, here’s what was done to fulfill Psalm 22:16-18 “For dogs encompass me; a company of evildoers encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet—17I can count all my bones— they stare and gloat over me; 18they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.

In John 19:33-37 “But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water. 35He who saw it has borne witness—his testimony is true, and he knows that he is telling the truth—that you also may believe. 36For these things took place that the Scripture might be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken.” 37And again another Scripture says, “They will look on him whom they have pierced.”

And Matthew 27:35 “Then they crucified Him, and divided His garments, casting lots, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet: “They divided My garments among them, and for My clothing they cast lots.”

Also Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.”

These Scripture were fulfilled as was "My God, My God, why have you forsaken my." But Jesus did not say it to fulfill the Scripture, He said it because the wrath of the Father was placed on Him because "He made Him to be sin who knew no sin," Or He was made a sin offering, He suffered the wrath of God for us sinners, we need to look at II Corinthians 5:21 “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”
This sounds like Jesus became sin or partakes of sin, we need to look at the context, here's II Corinthians 5:16-21 from the J. B. Phillips Translation. “This means that our knowledge of men can no longer be based on their outward lives (indeed, even though we knew Christ as a man we do not know him like that any longer). For if a man is in Christ he becomes a new person altogether—the past is finished and gone, everything has become fresh and new. All this is God’s doing, for he has reconciled us to himself through Jesus Christ; and he has made us agents of the reconciliation. God was in Christ personally reconciling the world to himself—not counting their sins against them—and has commissioned us with the message of reconciliation. We are now Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were appealing direct to you through us. As his personal representatives we say, “Make your peace with God.” For God caused Christ, who himself knew nothing of sin, actually to be sin for our sakes, so that in Christ we might be made good with the goodness of God.”

The Father did not look away from Christ in the sense that He did not visually look at Him, the Father did place His warth on Christ so that we could be forgiven. When I say we, I am talking about those that the Father has chosen to salvation or those in His definite plan Acts 2:23 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.”

In that definite plan He chose His people as well, Ephesians 1:3-6 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.”

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

GOD looks upon sin - in his wrath.

 

[Studyman]

Habbakuk 1:13 You, whose eyes are too clean to see evil, You are not able to look on wrong. Why do You look on those who act treacherously – keep silent when the wrong devours one more righteous than he?"

It seems Habbakuk is reasoning why Yah lets evil continue. IN chapter 2 he speaks of repayment;

Habbakuk 2:16 “You shall be filled with shame instead of esteem. Drink, you too, and be exposed as uncircumcised! The cup of the right hand of יהוה shall come around to you, and great shame upon your esteem."

Well I would say YHWH allows free will and is patient;

Ezekiyl 18:23, “Have I any pleasure in the death of the wrong?” declares the Master יהוה. “Is it not that he should turn from his ways, and live?”

I agree Yah does not look upon evil:


1 Peter/Kepha 3:12, "For the eyes of YHWH are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers; but the face of YHWH is against those who do evil."


Psalm 34:12-16, “Who is the man who desires life, Who loves many days, in order to see good? Keep your tongue from evil, And your lips from speaking deceit. Turn away from evil and do righteousness; Seek peace, and pursue it. The eyes of יהוה are on the righteous, And His ears unto their cry. The face of יהוה is against evil-doers, To cut off their remembrance from the earth.”


Proverbs 15:29, "YHWH is far from the wicked, but He hears the prayer of the righteous."


Micah 3:4, "Therefore, when they cry to יהוה He does not answer them, and hides His face from them at that time, as they have made their deeds evil."

and will repay;


Revelation 6:15-17, “And the sovereigns of the earth, and the great ones, and the rich ones, and the commanders, and the mighty, and every slave and every free one, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us (Hos 10:8) from the face of Him sitting on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, because the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”


Malachi 3:2 “And who is able to bear the day of His coming, and who is able to stand when He appears? For He is like the fire of a refiner, and like the soap of a launderer.”

Also why this:

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”"

I believe it is because this is the only time the Spirit of YHWH ever departed from Him;

John 14:16-17, “And I shall ask the Father, and He shall give you another Helper, to stay with you forever the Spirit of the Truth, whom the world is unable to receive, because it does not see Him or know Him. But you know Him, for He stays with you and shall be in you.”


1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Psalms 51:10-11, “Create in me a clean heart, O Mighty One, And renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Set-apart Spirit from me.”

Im open to other explanations and would like Scriptual support

This verse came to my mind as well. Good post Shamah


Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[posthuman]

Also why this:

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”"

I believe it is because this is the only time the Spirit of YHWH ever departed from Him;

you have to believe that Jesus is not God in order to hold this view.
that He is only a man who happened to have the Spirit of God resting on Him for a short while.

 

[posthuman]

IMO the solution to this is that Christ is not talking about Himself when He quotes/sings this song.

 

[posthuman]

This verse came to my mind as well. Good post Shamah


Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Do you also think Jesus is not God?
At least, not on the cross? You think God can cease to be God?

 

[garee]

Do you also think Jesus is not God?
At least, not on the cross? You think God can cease to be God?

God is not a man as us. Never was never could be.
When the Son ofman (the temporal flesh)was approached in respect to his outward flesh , asgood teacher (Lord Master), . He immediately gave glory to God not seen.Saying only God not seen is good. We walk by faith, the unseen eternal, not inrespect to what the eyes see or human ears hear after the imaginations of ourhearts (no faith)

Before he left he left us even though some did know him in respect to hisoutward appearance he said no man could know him that way forever more . The veil isrent indicating he did come one time in the flesh. There will not be anotherveil.That ceremonial law as a shadow has been fulfilled

2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know wehim no more

 

[garee]

Do you also think Jesus is not God?
At least, not on the cross? You think God can cease to be God?

Rather than thinking God became a man as us .Do you think he was a man or could become a creature? Or was the one time demonstration simply that, an outward one time demonstration of a unseen Spirit, as that he poured out his Spirit as if it was blood ?