Anne Frank In Hell

[renewed_hope]

Does this mean that OSAS is sinful since they assume the same thing about themselves?

Wow! Don't even know how to answer this one and since it seems like what I said has been twisted around and around. I am out! Please don't bring up OSAS...that is a topic that makes people's blood boil on here

She probably meant that it is a sin to assume that a person went to hell because that would be judging them.

Yes, thank you!

 

[Dino246]

Budman... I think you've mastered the art of the clickbait thread title.

 

[dcontroversal]

I am surprised that some in this thread actually believe one can make the kingdom without coming through the one and ONLY DOOR.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of GOD....NO ONE MAKES THE KINGDOM OF GOD without being saved by faith or safe under the blood....WOW....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It says that YOU.... may know... that YOU have... I actually originally italicized the you’s in that Scripture because I figured you'd say that, but the fact still stands John didn’t have any issue with people knowing they HAD eternal life. John didn’t even say you’re going to have, John past tenses it pointing to the moment they believed. He’s so cool and eager for them to know they have eternal life. He writes them a letter about it!

”I write these things to you so that YOU (insert readers name here) may know (confidently understand) you HAVE (currently possess) eternal life.”

What I love about johns encouragement is the fact he says it is this knowledge we have etenal life, ths security in christ, that gives us the ability to continue to believe in his name.

Which is prety much proven by the fact those who do not believe in security are the ones claiming we can fall away and stop believeing. Which makes sense, because their faith is in their ability to continue to believe, not in the one who saved them

 

[DJ2]

It says that YOU.... may know... that YOU have... I actually originally italicized the you’s in that Scripture because I figured you'd say that, but the fact still stands John didn’t have any issue with people knowing they HAD eternal life. John didn’t even say you’re going to have, John past tenses it pointing to the moment they believed. He’s so cool and eager for them to know they have eternal life. He writes them a letter about it!

”I write these things to you so that YOU (insert readers name here) may know (confidently understand) you HAVE (currently possess) eternal life.”

You are making the classic OSAS mistake. You are defending a concept that is not in question.

The issue of whether or not Christians are granted salvation is not in debate, The issue of whether or not Christians can feel assured of salvation is also not up for debate. The weak and dangerous link in unquestionable assurance is simply the assumption that we cannot be wrong about our quality of belief.

John's letter was read to the church as a whole, to assume that everyone hearing the message was being told that their salvation was guaranteed would be foolish. John was making a true but general statement that the Christians were guaranteed salvation not that all who claimed to be Christian were guaranteed salvation.

Salvation is assured to Christians not to those who sincerely believe they are Christians.

Mormons misuse the same verses as you, they too believe the "you" applies to them individually. Where the potential for false assurance exist, true assurance cannot.

 

[CS1]

I was watching a documentary on the Holocaust, and they had a small segment on Anne Frank. I'm sure most of you know who she was and probably read her diary in school, as I did. I'm also sure most of you know her fate - death in a Concentration Camp about a month and a half before the end of the war.

It troubles me greatly knowing that she, and the 6 million Jewish victims of Hitler, are now in Hades.

I know doctrine. I know that we are all sinners deserving hell. I know the holiness of God demands punishment for the lost. But I can't help thinking about that poor girl, suffering in darkness, a victim of a satanically possessed mass murderer.

She harmed no one. Loved greatly. Just a child. Yet her eternal fate is sealed.

Maybe I'm just in a melancholy mood. Maybe I don't understand as much as I think I do.

Thoughts?

you have a presumption about all the 6million Jews and this women are in “ hades” . You do not know that. IF they have not accepted the Lord then you would be correct. BUT you do not know , and that should give you some comfort

 

[BenFTW]

You are making the classic OSAS mistake. You are defending a concept that is not in question.

The issue of whether or not Christians are granted salvation is not in debate, The issue of whether or not Christians can feel assured of salvation is also not up for debate. The weak and dangerous link in unquestionable assurance is simply the assumption that we cannot be wrong about our quality of belief.

John's letter was read to the church as a whole, to assume that everyone hearing the message was being told that their salvation was guaranteed would be foolish. John was making a true but general statement that the Christians were guaranteed salvation not that all who claimed to be Christian were guaranteed salvation.

Salvation is assured to Christians not to those who sincerely believe they are Christians.

Mormons misuse the same verses as you, they too believe the "you" applies to them individually. Where the potential for false assurance exist, true assurance cannot.

What type of doublespeak is this? You say salvation is assured for the Christian, then proceed to sow doubt into the hearts of the true (Christians). Are you doing the devil's work, or will you, like John, give assurance to the brethren? True assurance can be had, or do you not fellowship with God? What do you proclaim, is it Christ and Him crucified?

The existence of false assurance does not nullify true assurance, for the Spirit does bear witness within us.

Romans 8:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[DJ2]

What type of doublespeak is this? You say salvation is assured for the Christian, then proceed to sow doubt into the hearts of the true (Christians). Are you doing the devil's work, or will you, like John, give assurance to the brethren? True assurance can be had, or do you not fellowship with God? What do you proclaim, is it Christ and Him crucified?

The existence of false assurance does not nullify true assurance, for the Spirit does bear witness within us.

Romans 8:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

What type of doublespeak is this?​

My words are straight forward and clear, there is no doublespeak.

You say salvation is assured for the Christian​

I most certainly do.

then proceed to sow doubt into the hearts of the true (Christians).​

The truth cuts the heart (Hebrews 4:12) it does not sow doubt in it.

Are you doing the devil's work, or will you, like John, give assurance to the brethren? True assurance can be had, or do you not fellowship with God? What do you proclaim, is it Christ and Him crucified?​

I can ask you the same question. Are you doing the devil's work or will you, like Paul, give warning to the brethren to watch and stand fast in the faith, be brave and strong. No one goes to hell because they were too watchful. We are to run the race, or do you not fellowship with God? What do you proclaim, is it Christ that takes away the lampstands of the body?

The existence of false assurance does not nullify true assurance, for the Spirit does bear witness within us.​

The existence of false assurance does not nullify true assurance but it certainly does nullify our ability to individually know who possesses the assurance.

Romans 8:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:​

Projecting yourself individually into a promise does not prove you are the recipient to the promise. This is the part you do not seem to grasp.

The just live by faith not personal assurance.

 

[JesusLives]

It might just be me but I don't think we really have the right to try and determine anyone's fate of heaven or hell. God only knows the heart and what goes on in the inside of a person whether they are close to Him or not. I guess I just don't feel like it is my job to determine the outcome of a person.

It is my job to love them as Christ loves us and to try and help them give their hearts to God and accept Jesus as their Savior, but God's job to know where we all end up...

 

[PennEd]

It might just be me but I don't think we really have the right to try and determine anyone's fate of heaven or hell. God only knows the heart and what goes on in the inside of a person whether they are close to Him or not. I guess I just don't feel like it is my job to determine the outcome of a person.

It is my job to love them as Christ loves us and to try and help them give their hearts to God and accept Jesus as their Savior, but God's job to know where we all end up...

I'm not sure I'm right, but I tend to understand THIS passage to mean what you say. That we shouldn't speculate if someone who died is saved or not:
ROMANS 6:

[FONT=&quot]6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).[/FONT]

 

[Cee]

I'm not sure I'm right, but I tend to understand THIS passage to mean what you say. That we shouldn't speculate if someone who died is saved or not:
ROMANS 6:

6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

Interesting viewpoint on this Scripture, the one I focus on is this one:

Romans 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

 

[DJ2]

Interesting viewpoint on this Scripture, the one I focus on is this one:

Romans 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Great verse. This cuts to the core on the claims of personal individual assurance. How can we judge ourselves or others on the issue of individual eternal assurance? This is the job of the Master not us.

I believe many will be shocked when they realize that their assurance was not as assured as they thought.

 

[Cee]

Great verse. This cuts to the core on the claims of personal individual assurance. How can we judge ourselves or others on the issue of individual eternal assurance? This is the job of the Master not us.

I believe many will be shocked when they realize that their assurance was not as assured as they thought.

This verse is actually teaching the opposite, please note it says the Lord is ABLE to make Him stand. So once again this is assurance of being upheld. Not fear of believing you are upheld.

A verse that you could use, would be take heed lest you fall, that would link up better. But even that Scripture is talking more about relationship not positional righteousness.

 

[DJ2]

This verse is actually teaching the opposite, please note it says the Lord is ABLE to make Him stand. So once again this is assurance of being upheld. Not fear of believing you are upheld.

A verse that you could use, would be take heed lest you fall, that would link up better. But even that Scripture is talking more about relationship not positional righteousness.

Anyone making a judgement on the servant of another Master is being called out in this verse, that includes ourselves. For someone to proclaim that they know their eternal fate is a judgement left not to them but God. They are simply projecting themselves into the pronouns without cause or warrant. Something that many groups do.

 

[Cee]

Anyone making a judgement on the servant of another Master is being called out in this verse, that includes ourselves. For someone to proclaim that they know their eternal fate is a judgement left not to them but God. They are simply projecting themselves into the pronouns without cause or warrant. Something that many groups do.

Believe as you wish. I'm not trying to debate, take care.

 

[tourist]

How many people have you done this for?

I dunno, maybe 10 or 12. I didn't keep a scorecard I can't give a precise number.

 

[Budman]

I dunno, maybe 10 or 12. I didn't keep a scorecard I can't give a precise number.

So, you're able to pray for God to go back in time and cause someone to receive Jesus before they would have gone to hell and you've only done this for only 10 or 12 people?

 

[BenFTW]

So, you're able to pray for God to go back in time and cause someone to receive Jesus before they would have gone to hell and you've only done this for only 10 or 12 people?

He is very selective. Only the best are allowed on his prayer list, lol. I put in my application but he didn't like the beard.

 

[BenFTW]

I dunno, maybe 10 or 12. I didn't keep a scorecard I can't give a precise number.

You know I am only joking with you Tourist (my previous post). I do wonder though, are you saying that God changed the time line of events because of your prayer retroactively, or are you saying because He knew you would make that prayer (before creating the universe) for their soul they before dying accepted Christ (on the basis of that prayer in accordance with His will)?

 

[garee]

I was watching a documentary on the Holocaust, and they had a small segment on Anne Frank. I'm sure most of you know who she was and probably read her diary in school, as I did. I'm also sure most of you know her fate - death in a Concentration Camp about a month and a half before the end of the war.

It troubles me greatly knowing that she, and the 6 million Jewish victims of Hitler, are now in Hades.



I know doctrine. I know that we are all sinners deserving hell. I know the holiness of God demands punishment for the lost. But I can't help thinking about that poor girl, suffering in darkness, a victim of a satanically possessed mass murderer.

She harmed no one. Loved greatly. Just a child. Yet her eternal fate is sealed.

Maybe I'm just in a melancholy mood. Maybe I don't understand as much as I think I do.

Thoughts?

The peace of God surpasses all understanding even when a person is in a

melancholy mood or one full of joy. ​