Anne Frank In Hell
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One thing I have noticed about you is that you are a deep thinker and I appreciate that about you. Trust but verify? I was a fan of President Regan too. He will go down in history as a great president.
If God were restricted to the time restraints the rest of us experience, then He would be lying when He calls things that are not as though they were:
Rom. 4:17 "(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were."
When He does that He is calling the future. It gives Him license just like it gives us. We call ourselves saved, but until God raises us to immortality it is not a done deal.
As speculating on any past persons salvation, it is not wise. Nobody is going to be tortured in flames forever. That is a tradition of man. Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death. Death is death, you cease to exist.
Tourist, did you pray that he saves all people?
By what you say, then let's go home, no more witnessing/missionaries. Just pray and presto!
Am I understanding you correctly?
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AuntieAnt
Guest
If someone asked me to write down a few things I've accomplished in this life that I thought were worthy contributions, compared to the holiness of God, I'd write absolutely nuttin'! I haven't done anything of myself that's holy enough for the Lord God Almighty. In fact, I can't even pat myself on the back for coming to Christ. He redeemed me in spite of myself.
Like Saul (Paul), I was headed in the opposite direction when God intervened and put an end to my drifting into nowhere.
Anything that’s been accomplished for the glory of the Lord thru my person is all due to the Lord Himself. I'm hardly aware when He uses me, really. The rare times I do recognize that Christ manifested Himself to another thru me is so amazing, so supernatural, I'm overjoyed because I know I had nothing to do with it except to be present to see it! I get no credit, I know that. But I do get Jesus Christ as my best Friend and Savior. That’s everything!
I don’t think God loves me more than He loves Anne Frank. I don’t know much about her except for what’s been published. I certainly know God though, and He’s absolutely faithful to save. Jesus didn't go thru what He did to leave people at the mercy of the world. I believe God for His faithful, saving grace and miraculous love before I believe a person is doomed forever.
God is able. I don’t know much else.
Like Saul (Paul), I was headed in the opposite direction when God intervened and put an end to my drifting into nowhere.
Anything that’s been accomplished for the glory of the Lord thru my person is all due to the Lord Himself. I'm hardly aware when He uses me, really. The rare times I do recognize that Christ manifested Himself to another thru me is so amazing, so supernatural, I'm overjoyed because I know I had nothing to do with it except to be present to see it! I get no credit, I know that. But I do get Jesus Christ as my best Friend and Savior. That’s everything!
I don’t think God loves me more than He loves Anne Frank. I don’t know much about her except for what’s been published. I certainly know God though, and He’s absolutely faithful to save. Jesus didn't go thru what He did to leave people at the mercy of the world. I believe God for His faithful, saving grace and miraculous love before I believe a person is doomed forever.
God is able. I don’t know much else.
Perhaps there will be eternal suffering...If God were restricted to the time restraints the rest of us experience, then He would be lying when He calls things that are not as though they were:
Rom. 4:17"(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were."
When He does that He is calling the future. It gives Him license just like it gives us. We call ourselves saved, but until God raises us to immortality it is not a done deal.
As speculating on any past persons salvation, it is not wise. Nobody is going to be tortured in flames forever. That is a tradition of man. Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death. Death is death, you cease to exist.
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
(Rev 14:9-11)
Would GOD tell someone she wasn't saved or would deciding If she was saved or not saved be putting confidence In self to make that judgement?
Yes sir you are understanding correctly as far as salvation is concerned but we are commanded to witness in God's name to all people. It's not so easy as pray and presto as there is a great cost to be paid for each answered prayer. Those of us who remain should continue to humbly love and serve the Lord as we allow ourselves to be led by the Holy Spirit doing the work that our Heavenly Father has prepared for us to accomplish beforehand.
I am not the arbiter of who lives and dies, it is up to God to decide. It is only my desire that all should be saved. I also believe in every single word, jot and tittle of the Word of God and that all will be fulfilled that was ever written. Jesus made it clear that no one comes to the Father except through Him. This will always hold true.
There is a tremendous amount of pain and suffering that needs to be addressed in the world besides worrying about who lives eternally basking in God's love and who dies and is permanently separated from the love of God. Endless separation without end.
As for prayer, I know that the Holy Spirit prays continuously to the Father on our behalf. I wonder that if we say a prayer that is aligned with God's will and desire the Holy Spirt would then pray to the Father this same prayer. Maybe God won't answer my prayer but the Father will certainly answer the prayer of the Holy Spirit and would then give His son the authority to accomplish the work that answers the prayer.
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You are not wrong about the character of God. Do not think of the judgement as God just passing sentence on sinners. The people God isn't calling in this dispensation have no chance to serve Him. Their whole life was a vain experience.
Ecc. 1:14 "I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit."
Ecc. 2:17 "Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought under the sun is grievous unto me: for all is vanity and vexation of spirit."
The White throne judgement is when the babies and all the people ignorant about Christ will be given a chance to serve Him. This is not universal restoration dogma, for there are some in this life that have loved evil and will never serve God. God is in the process of purging evil out of His universe. God is going to destroy even Satan when He is done with him (see Eze. 28:14-19).
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AuntieAnt
Guest
Right, if there were witnesses there declaring she had flat out denied Jesus on her deathbed, then perhaps one could say she perished.
I really don't want to pursue this as it involves a lot of speculation but I'll leave you with this thought about your view.
What if Jesus Himself had prayed for the whole world to be saved? And why not, if what you said is true? John 17 seems to indicate otherwise.
How do you know that this is not something preserved on tape, film or archived digitally. The same holds true for other references that seem to counter scripture:
Mark 9:47, 48 "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
Why would God allow a maggot to live forever? It doesn't make sense. Either all scripture fits together or none of it is valid.
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Okay, so you are a universalist. Everyone saved in the end, not dependent on receiving the Holy Spirit in this life. All it takes (which I'm sure has already happened) is for one man or woman at some time in history to pray that no one be lost.
I'm not mad at you for being a universalist, by the way. Not going to scream at you or start a nasty.
If God were restricted to the time restraints the rest of us experience, then He would be lying when He calls things that are not as though they were:
Rom. 4:17 "(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were."
When He does that He is calling the future. It gives Him license just like it gives us. We call ourselves saved, but until God raises us to immortality it is not a done deal.
As speculating on any past persons salvation, it is not wise. Nobody is going to be tortured in flames forever. That is a tradition of man. Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death. Death is death, you cease to exist.
I fully concur with your estimation and perception.
Because other Scripture attests to it...without using metaphors.
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
(Rev 14:9-11)
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
(Mat 25:46)
This is an old way of thinking.
For 2,000 years, its church. The name of Jesus Christ is placed in church, not in secular state of Israel created by United Nations resolution in the 20th century.
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Okay, so you are a universalist. Everyone saved in the end, not dependent on receiving the Holy Spirit in this life. All it takes (which I'm sure has already happened) is for one man or woman at some time in history to pray that no one be lost.
I'm not mad at you for being a universalist, by the way. Not going to scream at you or start a nasty.
What I desire and what actually happens can be two different things altogether. I would not tell anyone to go on sinning because I have prayed for their salvation as that would be a foolish thing to say and would harm the one that I would say that to.
It is clear in the bible that you must be born again to receive salvation. By that, my understanding is that you must confess you sins to God and repent, or in other words, change completely in your thoughts and actions in no longer preferring to live in sin. God is a God of justice and there must be a price paid for the sins committed. The price of this is God's son Jesus dying on the cross for these sins by His shed blood, and that by taking on the sins of the world he would experience the pain and suffering of having His father, whom He has always known, to turn his back on him. Jesus was dead for 3 days and nights, each day is as a thousand years in His eyes and a thousand years a day. That must have seemed like an eternity for Him as he suffered from the separation of the love of His heavenly father.
Is it wrong to pray for those that you love? Does not God love everybody and tells us as well that we are to love our enemies? If God were to answer only one prayer of mine I would chose that He answer the one that all be saved.
It is clear in the bible that all will not be saved. It is also clear that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus. This is a statement of biblical truth and will not be changed regardless of who or what one prays for including myself.
As I have said before, I believe that the entire Word of God will be fulfilled exactly as stated. In interesting thing though is perhaps the bible does not contain as of yet the complete Word of God because in the book of Revelation John was told not to write down what the Seven Thunders said, but yet all will be revealed at the proper time. Another interesting thing is what exactly did Jesus write on the ground with his finger while the crowd was ready to stone the woman caught in adultery? It is possible that what the Seven Thunders uttered and what Jesus wrote was pertaining to salvation and that may change the dynamic of what we currently believe regarding this matter and possibly many other matters as well.
Even so, whatever is revealed will not change a single iota of the Word of God for His word will stand. What may change however is our understanding of the Word of God. Rest assured though that the God that we know and love is a God of love. This will never change because God changes not.
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