Animal Sacrifice

Seeker47 · Dec 15, 2023

In the First Testament, the sacrifice of animals was never intended as a means of salvation. Instead, there is a process established.

First, the sinner must be aware of the sin. Without awareness salvation is impossible. God alone gives this awareness, and he gives it to whom he will. This is his grace.

Second, the sinner must acknowledge the sin and then, in faith, repent. They must take action to correct the damage they have caused. This can range from apology and retraction to repair and restitution. The repentance can be obtained solely from the victim. The victim also establishes the damages, not the sinner.

There must also be remorse, a turning away from the action or attitudes that lead to the sin.

Finally, there is guilt. Many of us find the lingering guilt of our conduct to be both unbearable and inescapable. We can easily forgive others, yet find it very difficult to forgive ourselves. God understands and provides a way out. We must sacrifice. We need to feel some personal loss for our actions besides just trying to repair the damage. But what loss?

God set blood as the necessary sacrifice. Animals were dear and valuable, their blood and lives precious to God and to us. Animals were the sacrifice first necessary to resolve the feelings of guilt, but that blood does not bring salvation. Spill all the blood you may, but without awareness, acknowledgement, and remorse it is just murder.

The same formula exists today. Our guilt is removed by the blood of our Savior. Claim his blood without repentance or remorse and your effort is futile.

God said he does not want more blood but seeks instead a shattered spirit and a contrite heart. That has been his requirement of sinners from the beginning. He made salvation available to all his people and has further blessed us with the means of forgiveness.

Nothing has changed.

Magenta · Dec 15, 2023

From Hebrews 10:1, 4, and 1 Corinthians 5:7

glf · Dec 15, 2023

Heb 9: 13-15 "For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."

(The new testament or the law of the Spirit of life, has no curse of death for the sins of the OT law or the law of sin and death. This is why only the sins of the law require redemption.)

Heb 9: 9 "Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience."

(So, we see that the sacrifices offered according to the law, not only failed to provide forgiveness for sins, but also failed to absolve the supplicant of their guilt. These shortcomings of the law are repeated in Heb 10: 1-4.)

Matt 5: 18 "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from the law, until all is fulfilled."

Gal 3: 23-25 "Before faith we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith that should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

Rom 3: 19 "Now we know that what things soever the law says, it says unto them who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

glf · Dec 16, 2023

After studying how salvation works, this is my conclusion:
As a member of the body of Christ ministers the gospel to a lost person, the Holy Spirit calls that person to the Lord and convicts him or her of sins. If that person responds with a godly sorrow rather than a sorrow after the world, and believes the word of the Lord being ministered, and sincerely asks the Lord for forgiveness, Jesus will then plant a seed of faith into their soul. The seed being that Jesus is their savior. The Holy Spirit then indwells their spirit and baptizes said person into the body of Christ. That person becomes a babe in Christ who now has a relationship with the Lord and is able to understand the word of God and hear the Lord's still small voice.

Magenta · Dec 16, 2023

Hebrews 9:22 Leviticus 17:11

Mem · Dec 16, 2023

On one hand it would seem right that focusing on individual sins and dealing with them one by one, which somehow was adopted as the assumed formula for one's deliverance from sins but, Jesus dealt win sin collectively.

Hebrews 10:10
And by that will (of the Father v.9), we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

and :12
But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God.

glf said:

I believe the worldly repent one sin at a time and from a perspective of personal impact while the godly repents of their collective sin, their total unrighteousness, from a perspective of how that has impacted the entire world.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 16, 2023

Seeker47 said:

Christ is called the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world. The blood of Christ is also called the blood of God. So it was a divine necessity that God the Son would need to become Jesus of Nazareth, but without the taint of the sin nature. And Christ voluntarily and willingly offered Himself a sacrifice for sins. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission (of sins).

HEBREWS 10:CHRIST'S ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS FOREVER
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Judaizers should note what is stated in verse 9. "He taketh away the first" is a reference to the first or Old Covenant (called "the Law") in verse 8. God abolished the Old Covenant because of Christ's one great sacrifice for sins forever. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished* (2 Cor 3:13).

All the animal sacrifices were precursors to the sacrifice of Christ. They could only "cover" sins. Only the Lamb of God could "take away" the sin of the world.

*Strong's Concordance
katargeó: to render inoperative, abolish
Original Word: καταργέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katargeó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-arg-eh'-o)
Definition: to render inoperative, abolish
Usage: (a) I make idle (inactive), make of no effect, annul, abolish, bring to naught, (b) I discharge, sever, separate from.

glf · Dec 16, 2023

I believe the worldly repent one sin at a time and from a perspective of personal impact while the godly repents of their collective sin, their total unrighteousness, from a perspective of how that has impacted the entire world.[/QUOTE]

I was raised going to church, I but was not taught that there was more to life with the Lord than salvation. I joined the Navy and the Lord revealed that he wanted me to live for him. I didn't really know that I was being sinful. There was no internet available back then and we didn't have tv. So, after hours, I would read my bible until I fell asleep. Usually, more than forty chapters per night.
A sin, which didn't really seem wrong to me at the time, became a point of conviction, one after another and the knowledge of how bad I would feel gave the strength to stop. Then the Lord would convict me about something else and the anguish that I felt would slowly increase, until I quit it too.
Then my attitudes started to bother me, one after another, until I changed. About this time, my ship went into dry dock for around six months, and I joined a church congregation. It felt like my little fire for the Lord became a spiritual bonfire during the services.
When I got out of the Navy, I went to Christ for the Nations Inst. and graduated in 1978. The Lord is sovereign and deals with each of us as he will, and I suspect that how he moved in me is common. It's just most of us don't spend that much time in scripture when we first begin walking the path of drawing near to the Lord. I now suspect that once we get the victory over a sin that we're being dealt with, the Holy Spirit applies the blood of Jesus to our conscience which enables us to forgive our own selves for it. This process leads to the fulfilling of the following scripture, "Those whom he foreknew, he did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son."

glf · Dec 16, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

I agree with you, the scripture that you've posted here is the truth, but scripture in my post is also true. That being so, as I see it; the law is abolished in Christ, according to scripture, but for those who have not repented and asked for forgiveness and obtained faith in Jesus, they are still under the schoolmaster to bring them to Christ, then after faith is come to them, they too will no longer be under the schoolmaster of the law and it will then be abolished for them too. This will be true until heaven and earth passes in fulfillment of the promise in Matt 5: 18.

If a doctrine doesn't agree with all of the scripture, then it isn't true. If we're not in agreement with all of scripture, then we're in error because all scripture is given by inspiration of God. Sadly, error feels exactly the same as does the truth!
Is Gal 3: 23-25 true? Or is it not the truth? Because Heb 11, tells us that faith has been around long before the law with Able, Enoch, Noah, and Abraham who by faith received the promise of life from the Lord four hundred and thirty years before the law was given to Moses. So that faith in God's promises was never a sign of the law being abolished, just faith in Christ.

Seeker47 · Dec 16, 2023

OK, someone please explain to me (respectfully) how we can no longer be "under the law"?

God gave his laws directly to all his assembled people from atop a mountain in thunder, smoke and lightning. The law was given from his mouth to all his peoples ears; the only time he has spoken directly to all his people at once. He gave us ten laws, which ones are we no longer under? Can we knowingly worship idols, disrespect and abuse the elderly, murder, cheat and steal with impunity? He also told us we cannot commit blasphemy; the deliberate, willful, and conscious decision to break his laws. Later he told Moses there was no forgiveness available for blasphemy.

The rules He gave later through Moses were physical laws that were later made spiritual through Yeshua HaMashiach. They are still here.

(I know I will regret asking this question but want to hear answers, especially those that do not rely exclusively on selective bible quotes. If I am wrong convince me. I want to know the truth.)

Mem · Dec 16, 2023

glf said:

Sure, God works in us to address the entire spectrum of our sins in detail and so involve the process of our sanctification while we await our perfection, which will not be complete until the last day when our body is made as incorruptible just as our spirit has been (resurrected) (Romans 8: 22-3)
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

We groan until the present time, even now, seeing our body is yet to be redeemed and, though we may now possess incorruptible spirits we also have not, and will not, put off corruptible flesh until the resurrection. And, so, ensues the constant warring betwixt the opposing twain. However, possessing an incorruptible spirit does mean that sin is powerless of its corrosive effect upon us, even as it continues its barrage of deteriorative assaults against our body.

The very definition of the faithful is him that perseveres thoroughly by faith.

p_rehbein · Dec 16, 2023

Seeker47 said:

Read the Epistles of the Apostle Paul. He makes it very clear that we are not. Jesus FULFILLED the Law of the 1st Covenant.

Now, for those who CHOOSE to continue to live under that Law, it does still exist, and they will be judged by that Law, and not by Grace. Me thinks it won't work out too well for them.........

Believers in and disciples of Jesus are under the New Covenant Law, the Law of Grace.

Seeker47 · Dec 16, 2023

p_rehbein said:

Read the Epistles of the Apostle Paul. He makes it very clear that we are not. Jesus FULFILLED the Law of the 1st Covenant.

Now, for those who CHOOSE to continue to live under that Law, it does still exist, and they will be judged by that Law, and not by Grace. Me thinks it won't work out too well for them.........

Believers in and disciples of Jesus are under the New Covenant Law, the Law of Grace.

Thank you for the response, I am considering your words.

uncle_mike · Dec 16, 2023

Just think about what God was doing to the ancient Hebrew People under the Law. He made a "method" for sins based upon sacrifice. But God did something even more intent than just simple sacrifice. He made each person, family, raise a perfect animal. They fed it, cared for it, nursed it, put a lot of effort into making sure this animal was without spot or wrinkle and without blemish. Then they had to take this animal they had put all this work into to the Temple for a way to appease their sins. I would imagine this process caused people to be more proactive to not sin. Who would want to put so much effort and care into an animal you have to kill? God clearly used their own consciousness against them.

Now look at the Sacrifice of Jesus. We many times abuse it over idealism. We sin on purpose at times because we believe it does not effect our standing with God. But, I wonder, if we had to raise our own sin offering, would we look at our personal sins differently?

Nehemiah6 · Dec 16, 2023

Seeker47 said:

That simply means that the unsaved person is accountable to God in relation to the Ten Commandments. And according those those commandments, all are guilty before God, and as God says "There is none righteous, no not one".

Nehemiah6 · Dec 16, 2023

glf said:

Yes, That passage is true provided we understand that what was abolished was the entire Law of Moses, except the Ten Commandments (which are now under the Law of Christ). So the unsaved are accountable under the Ten Commandments.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 16, 2023

Seeker47 said:

…..the sacrifice of animals constantly reminded them of their sin and had no power to remit sin

this isn’t an opinion it’s what is plainly written down

“For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things,

can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:1, 3-

That hasn’t changed ?

“Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.

He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

she doesn’t add the second to the forst he removes the first to establish the second

We don’t sacrifice animals we don’t have levite preists who ordained the law

“If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Nothing changed except the word , the ordination , the priesthood the temple the mediator the intercession the promises the promised land ……one ended and one began

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

….Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12, 19, 23-25‬ ‭

Nothing changed…

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

safrificing an animal isn’t an act of faith you can’t find any faith in the law it’s not made of faith it’s not designed to operate by faith it’s designed to do what Paul is saying ther make sinners aware of thier sins and condemn them like this

“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:32, 35-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

where was repentance ? Where was the sacrifice ? He was never told to repent he was executed for his deed even before it was declared what to do he has no mercy that’s not lol the same as the gospel it’s the opposite one puts a sinner to death by the hands of the others commanded the. To kill this guy that picked up some sticks for a fire on a sabbath tone who doesn’t understand that’s not in any way the gospel of the same intent of the gospel simply hasn’t read the law or the gospel one is certain condemnation and death guilt without excuse the end is death

the other is a call to repentance faith and obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ and his word and the end is offered eternal life

moses word was a different covenant with a different people who later broke and defiles that covenant making it w curse like he said they would do thoroughly explained in the law itself and he then offered a New Testament given through the messiah that would save believers from the curse of the Old covenant being broken

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The New Testament os solving that offering salvstion from it

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. ( that’s going to happen because of what god declared would happen if they broke the covenant and they did )

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s the New Testament promise it’s better it’s seperate it will make sinners right and give us true hope

“But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s amazing how we humans will stand on our opinion in the face of clear and overwhelming evidence of the contrary

The Bible thoroughly explains a change of and entire covenant from the mediator to his word to the sacrifices and preisthood to the temple to the chosen people of the covenant from a single nation to all nations ….

glf · Dec 16, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

I think of the ten commandments as representing the minimum standard, that has been changed a bit to address the intent of the heart and not just the outward act. To love the Lord and to love others as one's self fulfils the law. For example; to lust for another is now adultery in one's heart. To hate another is to be a murderer. We're to turn our cheek rather than demand an eye for an eye. Even though they were unable to keep the law, we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us and being freed from the power of sin, we're able to deny the lusts of the flesh by walking in the Spirit.

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Animal Sacrifice

Seeker47

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Magenta

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glf

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glf

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Magenta

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Mem

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Nehemiah6

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