T
theanointedsinner
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for thy word is thy lamp on my feet and a light onto my pathWords of wisdom
Angry, can't sleep, need to vent
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I read about someone calling for every single Catholic clergyman, including the Pope, to resign. And I heartily agree. While it may be unrealistic, it's certainly not unreasonable. And Jesus certainly wasn't being "reasonable" when he went into the temple courtyard and unleashed on the moneylenders.
And before you remind me of the so-called good things the Catholic church has done, let me remind you of all the terrible things it's done as well. Bride of Christ my eye!
1. Multiple Crusades
2. The Inquisition
3. Pogroms
4. Witch Hunts
5. Torching of "heretics" and men of science
6. Passively standing by while Hitler and Mussolini ruled Europe
7. The molesting of thousands of kids in the past few decades
8. The massive cover-ups of the previously mentioned molestings
9. Enforced peonage of unwed mothers in Ireland
10. Baby sales in Spain
11. Money laundering via the Vatican Bank
12. Rampant AIDS in Africa because of Catholicism's irrational opposition to condoms
13. Endemic slums in Latin America due to overpopulation
14. Giving the death penalty to gays and women/girls who've aborted children (even those who were raped and otherwise would've died if they didn't) in Latin America
15. General denigration of women as not fully human
Of the two great evil, corrupt, greedy, misogynistic, authoritarian, dehumanizing organizations that have spread their tentacles from Italy over the rest of civilization, why is it that only the less pernicious one, the Mafia, has the bad reputation?
And no, I don't believe Protestants are much better. Despite all the "good" the church in general may do this already sick world, all it's doing is just making it sicker. If this is the "Bride of Christ," I want nothing to do with it. I will gladly take Jesus over an institution or a "body" any day. And I can't wait for Judgment Day to come and for all of those monsters masquerading as saints to get the justice they deserve.
And before you remind me of the so-called good things the Catholic church has done, let me remind you of all the terrible things it's done as well. Bride of Christ my eye!
1. Multiple Crusades
2. The Inquisition
3. Pogroms
4. Witch Hunts
5. Torching of "heretics" and men of science
6. Passively standing by while Hitler and Mussolini ruled Europe
7. The molesting of thousands of kids in the past few decades
8. The massive cover-ups of the previously mentioned molestings
9. Enforced peonage of unwed mothers in Ireland
10. Baby sales in Spain
11. Money laundering via the Vatican Bank
12. Rampant AIDS in Africa because of Catholicism's irrational opposition to condoms
13. Endemic slums in Latin America due to overpopulation
14. Giving the death penalty to gays and women/girls who've aborted children (even those who were raped and otherwise would've died if they didn't) in Latin America
15. General denigration of women as not fully human
Of the two great evil, corrupt, greedy, misogynistic, authoritarian, dehumanizing organizations that have spread their tentacles from Italy over the rest of civilization, why is it that only the less pernicious one, the Mafia, has the bad reputation?
And no, I don't believe Protestants are much better. Despite all the "good" the church in general may do this already sick world, all it's doing is just making it sicker. If this is the "Bride of Christ," I want nothing to do with it. I will gladly take Jesus over an institution or a "body" any day. And I can't wait for Judgment Day to come and for all of those monsters masquerading as saints to get the justice they deserve.
C
claysmithr
Guest
Catholics shouldn't be representative of Christianity, there was a reformation for a reason.
HP, catholicism is NOT Christianity. Not even close. They use rosaries and pray to Mary and other dead people. They bow to statues of Mary and the pope. They create shrines. They believe Mary can hear and answer prayer. She is their intercessor, or so they believe..
Christians do NONE of those things. We pray only to Jesus, and believe that He alone is our intercessor. We don't pray using rosaries. We don't bow to statues.
Catholicism is a false, evil religion.
C
claysmithr
Guest
While Catholic's attempt to label themselves Christians and have vast resources for marketing themselves that way, I wouldn't consider them as such, and there have been rumor's of Pope's being involved in freemasonry and probably other abominable things.
The RCC is currently the most likely candidate to be the Mother of Harlot's in Revelations, see:
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/roma...-indeed-mother-harlots-mystery-babylon-bible/
Ask yourself, what kind of "Church" actively covers up for its priests concerning sexual child abuse and then tries to blame Satan for exposing sin in it? There is even a film about it called Spotlight.
If you get a copy of Fox's Book of Martyr's you can see how bad Catholic Rome persecuted Christians historically.
Catholics also incorporated Pagan traditions into their Church, Mary became their new "Queen of Heaven." Queen of Heaven was mentioned once in the Bible and God was not happy about it.
Here's another resource: http://www.eaec.org/cults/romancatholic.htm
Rome has always been the enemy of Christians, and it still is today. There is so much wrong with the RCC that I couldn't write a post big enough to cover all of it, but please research into this topic yourself.
I'm not sure who that was meant to be directed at, but it couldn't have been me. Nothing I've said suggests in any way I think the ways you stated.
Though it's odd how you're justifying anger at people that commit some sin but those here that haven't you treat with an equal amount of disdain.
I haven't defended any sin or sinner but suggested that, by biblical standards, your anger is no longer righteous and out of the bounds of what God would see as acceptable. And you somehow see this as supporting sin. In your anger you're unable to be rational and seem to feel justified in mistreating others who have done nothing wrong. Even people trying to help.
It's not just "some sin." It's mistreating children in the worst possible way, and ENJOYING it. And the Bible tells us to "be angry but sin not." Apparently by your standards Jesus was being irrational by going into the temple courtyards and driving out the moneylenders with a corded whip. He was angry, and rightly so, yet he never sinned.
I appreciate your anger and I totally get it. I suspect He, Himself, will be expressing that emotion in His time of wrath. I appreciate that you are so invested in the importance and value of what it means to follow our Lord and Savior, that salvation is a state, a condition, that should be applied in our actions and thoughts. With that said, I most definitely consider myself a Christian, an imperfect follower of the perfect Son of God, Yeshua, Christ. Now to those who give our faith and the One we believe in a tarnished name, those to me, point to why it is important to remain true ambassadors for Him and His Name. I take comfort knowing everything is in His hands. If the church, the body of Christ, is filled with only true believing, life transforming believers, Christians, then those letters wouldn't have been addressed to the assembly of believers.
I think it does matter what believing looks like, how it is measured. Do we really believe? If we do, way down deep in our knowing, it should be evident in our actions.
I think it does matter what believing looks like, how it is measured. Do we really believe? If we do, way down deep in our knowing, it should be evident in our actions.
And another thing, the idea that celibacy is what's making these priests do these things is a flat out LIE. Married men molest kids too. It's not about sex, it's about getting enjoyment from hurting others.
Celibacy unfortunately has a bad rap in evangelical culture. Evangelicals bemoan our sexualized culture and it makes me want to say, "You do the same thing, just in a different way." A.K.A. Marriage and kids. The fact that Jesus and Paul would not be able to get the senior pastor position simply because they weren't married should make us pause.
Besides, it's an unfortunate fact of life, but not everyone will be married, either by choice or by circumstance. While I don't agree with gay marriage, I believe it could serve as a wakeup call to the church. Why do gays want to get married? They want to have someone to love and someone to love them. The big crisis we're facing is not that gays can now get married. It's that people are no longer finding relationship satisfaction apart from marriage and romance.
It's especially tough for men. Fathers tend to stop being physically affectionate with their daughters when they reach puberty, 'cause our society is very suspicious of older men being around teenage girls, even if they are related. Every affectionate touch between anyone now has to "mean" something. Parents are now questioning the role of affectionate touch in relating to their own children. Clearly, something isn't right.
It's funny because before the 20th century, there was concern for not loving your spouse too little, but loving them too much. It was considered dangerously anti-social to be too emotionally attached to one's spouse. Men and women formed deep friendships outside their marriage, and when couples started going on honeymoons in the 19th century, they took their families with them.
But of course, nowadays, even talking fondly about someone of the same sex can be seen as evidence of being gay.
Marriage cannot possibly fulfill all your relationship needs. So why do we keep acting like it does? It's funny that with all the focus in evangelical churches on marriage, our marriages aren't any better. In fact, they're slightly worse. Moreover, single people tend to be treated not as family or human beings, but as threats. For the record, if a married person is going to cheat, it's more likely going to be with another married person than a single person.
Celibacy and friendship in the Bible are esteemed as much as marriage. Why can't we do the same? Celibacy shouldn't have to carry a greater sacrifice than giving up sex. But today, in our incredibly mobile and hyper-individualistic society, more often than not, it does.
It's ironic that whereas marriage is esteemed nowadays while celibacy is not, in the early days of the church, it was actually the opposite. Celibacy was seen as a higher, holier calling than marriage, which, while not a sin, was seen as giving into the flesh.
Have you ever noticed that there are a lot more early church saints who weren't married than those who were? And many of these unmarried saints were women? Why is this so significant?
In the ancient world, marriage was the holy grail, the only thing to guarantee that your line would continue. And it was only there to provide legitimate heirs. Other than that, people slept around, but I digress.
Marriage and family in the ancient world were of ultimate significance. The most important thing to a person's life. The idea that anyone, especially a woman, would choose to forego marriage, would've been seen as not only betraying your family but your country. It was inconceivable.
Celibacy unfortunately has a bad rap in evangelical culture. Evangelicals bemoan our sexualized culture and it makes me want to say, "You do the same thing, just in a different way." A.K.A. Marriage and kids. The fact that Jesus and Paul would not be able to get the senior pastor position simply because they weren't married should make us pause.
Besides, it's an unfortunate fact of life, but not everyone will be married, either by choice or by circumstance. While I don't agree with gay marriage, I believe it could serve as a wakeup call to the church. Why do gays want to get married? They want to have someone to love and someone to love them. The big crisis we're facing is not that gays can now get married. It's that people are no longer finding relationship satisfaction apart from marriage and romance.
It's especially tough for men. Fathers tend to stop being physically affectionate with their daughters when they reach puberty, 'cause our society is very suspicious of older men being around teenage girls, even if they are related. Every affectionate touch between anyone now has to "mean" something. Parents are now questioning the role of affectionate touch in relating to their own children. Clearly, something isn't right.
It's funny because before the 20th century, there was concern for not loving your spouse too little, but loving them too much. It was considered dangerously anti-social to be too emotionally attached to one's spouse. Men and women formed deep friendships outside their marriage, and when couples started going on honeymoons in the 19th century, they took their families with them.
But of course, nowadays, even talking fondly about someone of the same sex can be seen as evidence of being gay.
Marriage cannot possibly fulfill all your relationship needs. So why do we keep acting like it does? It's funny that with all the focus in evangelical churches on marriage, our marriages aren't any better. In fact, they're slightly worse. Moreover, single people tend to be treated not as family or human beings, but as threats. For the record, if a married person is going to cheat, it's more likely going to be with another married person than a single person.
Celibacy and friendship in the Bible are esteemed as much as marriage. Why can't we do the same? Celibacy shouldn't have to carry a greater sacrifice than giving up sex. But today, in our incredibly mobile and hyper-individualistic society, more often than not, it does.
It's ironic that whereas marriage is esteemed nowadays while celibacy is not, in the early days of the church, it was actually the opposite. Celibacy was seen as a higher, holier calling than marriage, which, while not a sin, was seen as giving into the flesh.
Have you ever noticed that there are a lot more early church saints who weren't married than those who were? And many of these unmarried saints were women? Why is this so significant?
In the ancient world, marriage was the holy grail, the only thing to guarantee that your line would continue. And it was only there to provide legitimate heirs. Other than that, people slept around, but I digress.
Marriage and family in the ancient world were of ultimate significance. The most important thing to a person's life. The idea that anyone, especially a woman, would choose to forego marriage, would've been seen as not only betraying your family but your country. It was inconceivable.
I totally get this! I, myself, try and put myself in other people's shoes in most situations. This is very hard to do in circumstances like these and other horrible acts committed by others.
I find that it's only by the grace of God that I was not born into a household that led me to do the very same crimes these people have committed. It's only by God's grace that I wasn't born with a family that led to me be a prostitute or a drunkard, or an abuser of someone else physically, sexually, or otherwise.
It's very difficult to understand anyone that do these things, but I must see myself blessed that I was never put into a series of events that would of led me to do the very same things they have done. I know I see this differently than most, but I see that all things can be forgiven; no matter what the sin is. This is why Christ came; for the sick, not the healthy.
These priests who do these things, under the name of God are no different than Paul doing what he did under the name of God. Both are and were vile in God's eyes! Look what was done under the name of God all throughout history! These people need the one true God just as much as we still need Him on a daily basis in our own lives.
With this said, I pray they find God before time runs out, but I also know that God is a just God, and that things do not go unpunished either. A man will reap what he sows!
I certainly hope you don't address them as such when engaging in a conversation about our Lord and Savior... ( they might think that you are one of them.. LOL..)
Why do you say you 'totally get this' and then say 'God is a just God'? Why do you compare Paul with these priests?
Quantrill
Because I understand feelings. We all have them! As far as comparing, it is no difference imo. We tend to say one thing is worse than another, when ALL sin is reviled in the eyes of God. So although I understand the feelings and emotions that play a part in our flesh, I also understand that God is a just God. We will reap what we sow. But God is also a merciful God as well. If He were not, we'd all burn in hell.
Fair enough question, hmmmm? Very good, let me ponder here....
Maybe because Paul refers to Himself as a Chief of a sinner, the worst of the worst. God is just God sounds offensive, maybe, but I say God does what God does, His order in mercy and Justice, are just who He is.
Well, HistoryPrincess doesn't want to call herself Christian anymore. She sees herself above such things. She is too good to be identify with the Christian people who are a bunch of redeemed sinners. Paul on the other hand was quite different. He always took the position of a sinner before God. And not just a sinner...but the 'chief of sinners'.
HistoryPrincess is coming against Christians as if she is better. Paul always came as one who was the least, and unworthy. Big difference here.
The truth is that every believer is capeable of every sin ever done under the sun. To see yourself as above anyone who does it, is to not understand the fall of mankind. As Christians we don't condone such behavior, but we neither do we see ourselves above such behavior.
You are correct. God could have sent us all to hell and be just in doing so. His righteousness would not be infringed at all. Instead He made it so that we who are such sinners are brought into a righteous state to the degree that it would be unjust for God to send us to hell and not let us in Heaven. God is just now in bringing us to Himself in Heaven. (Rom. 3:26)
Thus I don't believe we ever, as believers, cease to identify with God and Jesus Christ and His people.
Quantrill