Angels

[Slimsumo]

Oh i just noticed, is this a Celine Dion thread?
This is my favorite live performance of her. Amazing voice range while live.
Anyway, sorry for the interruption. Carry on.

Why is a Christian listening to worldly satanic music? You know what the Bible warns in Revelation about being not POLLUTED by the world and soiling your garments.

 

[armchairscholar]

I suffer from an incurable care of etymologitis. I have to see how words develop into what they are today. I usually start at wiki to get a general idea of the conversation on any particular topic and go from there if I'm especially interested in following the citations provided. And, according to wiki, in regard to the etymology of 'angel', "The word arrives in modern English from Old English engel (with a hard g) and Old French engele. Both of these derive from Late Latin angelus, which in turn is borrowed from Late Greek, angelos (literally "messenger")...According to a Dutch linguist R.S.P. Beaks, angelos itself may be "an Oriental loan, like... (angaros, "Persian mounted courier")" and in regard to the Background, "The idea of angels in early Hebrew scripture as supernatural beings is absent. Instead, the Hebrew diety intervenes in human affairs...."
And, indeed, the AI overview offering of the engine search for "angel etymology hebrew" retrieved the following:

The Hebrew word for "angel" is mal'ākh (מַלְאַךְ), which is derived from the root l-'-k (ל-א-ך) meaning "to send with a message". The word is often translated as "messenger" when referring to humans, but in post-biblical Hebrew it is used exclusively for superhuman messengers.

In the Bible, angels are beings that God sends to communicate his messages to humans, warning, comforting, and guiding them. They are also seen as attendants to God, similar to courtiers to an earthly king.

The word mal'ākh was translated into the Greek word angelos, which also means "messenger". In the Latin Vulgate, the word angelus was used when referring to supernatural beings, while nuntius or legatus were used when referring to human messengers. This differentiation was adopted by later translations of the Bible, and eventually by modern scholars.

And the rest is history...
And now, there is hardly anyone that feels the need to take personal responsibility since it all happens "out there."

I find your final comment particularly thought-provoking – about people abdicating personal responsibility because "it all happens out there." You've touched upon something I've observed as well. The modern conception of angels as autonomous supernatural beings intervening in human affairs is quite different from the original Hebrew understanding of mal'ākh as simply divine messaging or communication.

This shift has had interesting psychological implications. Where the ancient Hebrews saw direct divine-human communication (requiring active engagement and responsibility), many modern believers have adopted a more passive stance, waiting for supernatural intervention through intermediary beings. It's a subtle but major shift from active spiritual dialogue to passive expectation of rescue.

I often see how this externalization of spiritual agency can become a form of psychological avoidance. It's easier to wait for an angel to solve our problems than to engage with the difficult work of personal growth and moral responsibility.

Yet, ironically, the original etymology you've shared suggests something more empowering – the idea of direct divine-human communication, where messages (whether through natural or supernatural means) require our active interpretation and response.

 

[GWH]

Why did He send fallen lucifer and his angels to the earth realm and let them wander free instead of sending them to a nether realm and locking them away forever? Why did He give angels the ability to even reproduce with humans when Jesus later said there is no 'marriage' in Heaven or with spirit beings? There are many questions out there and their answers are not logical. Hebrews 4:16 says to go boldy before the throne of Grace. You can go ask Him these questions yourself and keep asking until the answers start raining (misting) down.

Yes, there are many questions that will not be answered until we get to heaven, but one you can answer now is, Why did you say this thread entitled "Angels" is not about angels "in particular"? You jest?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Because, when Abraham spoke to the three beings who visited Abraham, he addressed them in the 2nd person singular and scripture is written that "They" answer him in the first person singular as, likewise, also did Lot when the two went into Sodom. Imo, this is enough of a peculiarity to take note of and consider the possibilities this might involve.

It says plainly in Genesis 19:1 that there were 2 angels. So the lord + 2 angels = 3 men as described in Genesis 18:2. Obviously the 3 "men" weren't mortals. The LXX has plural in Lot's addressing them

 

[glf]

I like Genesis, John, and Hebrews basically start with "God" and How Hebrews starts, "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, in these last days has spoken to us by His Son." God spoke His Word (and will and ways) through many people before Jesus, but He made Jesus the Final Word making Jesus's example, lifestyle, teachings, and works the Pattern for everyone from His time until the end of time.

1 Jn 5: 7:
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Jn 1: 14:
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jn 16: 13:
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Jn 14: 9-11:
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Heb 1: 2-3:
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Jesus spoke on behalf of the Father even as far as all things that were made during the creation, with only a very few exceptions: such as at Jesus' baptism by John the baptist and again at his transfiguration on the mount the night before his crucifixion. The Holy Spirit illuminates scripture making it to be Jesus speaking to us, Spirit to spirit and we learn of him. I only add this, as my understanding sees Jesus' word to be even more than just the final word... I don't mean to be picky, I'm just in awe at what Jesus has to say! Praise the Lord in the name of Jesus, both now and forever!!!
2 Pet 1: 2-3:
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[GWH]

1 Jn 5: 7:
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Jn 1: 14:
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jn 16: 13:
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Jn 14: 9-11:
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Heb 1: 2-3:
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Jesus spoke on behalf of the Father even as far as all things that were made during the creation, with only a very few exceptions: such as at Jesus' baptism by John the baptist and again at his transfiguration on the mount the night before his crucifixion. The Holy Spirit illuminates scripture making it to be Jesus speaking to us, Spirit to spirit and we learn of him. I only add this, as my understanding sees Jesus' word to be even more than just the final word... I don't mean to be picky, I'm just in awe at what Jesus has to say! Praise the Lord in the name of Jesus, both now and forever!!!
2 Pet 1: 2-3:
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Nice editing (sewing Scripture together :^)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Angels have whatever roles God gives them. The spirit realm is complex. I was once shown a dream in which three angels were acting as a believer's attorneys. They sat in a meeting in the room that jurors meet in to decide cases and punishments. I didn't notice them till they came out. They looked fatigued from the meeting and went and gave 'their client' some good and bad news, telling him their case would turn out in their favor (good news) but the attorneys didn't know when that would be or how long it would take (bad news). Then I woke up.

I assumed that the three attorneys symbolized the Godhead, but as I thought about it that didn't make sense: a.) they were fatigued and God never gets tired (but angels can get tired: Daniel 10), and b.) they didn't know when their client's case would be decided while God knows everything. I then understood that they were angels and not the Godhead (this is more believable in that many angels are triads (ie. they move in threes)). These angels aren't taking this man's case to God; they're handling this man's case as concerns other angels (ie. angels vs. fallen angels: not God but an angel confronted the fallen angel in Daniel 10, and not "the Lord" but Michael confronted satan in Jude 1:9). It is different. The natural realm has natural laws (law of physics, law of engineering, law of mathematics, law of attraction, etc) and so the spirit realm also has laws that govern the way things work, operate, and function. God has angels for all His own reasons (He sets them over regions and territories but doesn't have to). We don't know 1/10 of those reasons.

Also, angels don't have to become human to understand humans. (That would almost be like assuming that all the angels who were allowed to appear in human form understand more about humans than the rest of the angels.) For one, they are spirit beings, so they know a whole whole whole lot. Secondly, we have on earth something called 'empathy' which is a sense or ability that gives one person the ability to 'feel with' another person as if they were inside the person and feeling the person's feelings for them (this is the type of 'agreement' the Bible says grants answers from God when christians pray for/with each other); it gives the ability to feel even with a person you don't know and with whom you have nothing at all in common. Empathy can allow a man to 'experience' a woman's reality carrying and bearing a baby; empathy can allow a five-year-old girl to understand just how her grandfather is feeling after losing his wife. It's able to cross boundaries and allow people to relate intimately with each other. People can also 'feel with' God. The Bible says angels are mightier (greater) than humans. Since we humans can pull off this supernatural feat of 'entering in with others' or 'bearing others' burdens', angels can certainly 'feel with' humans. You also wrote, "[Angels] aren’t very empathetic towards man..." Angels have to be empathetic toward humans because they have the ability to empathize (feel with) human beings, God, each other, other beings; God also created them to serve Him which means He gave them tools to do just that: one of those tools is love for mankind.

Alrighty

 

[Webers.Home]

.
An archangel's voice is mentioned in connection with 1Thess 4:13-18.
However; the angel's name isn't given, which presents a bit of a challenge to
identify because we know from Dan 10:12-13 that there's more than one
archangel.
_

 

[GWH]

Alrighty

I'm at that stage where I cannot remember what I just dreamed 10 seconds ago, so angels had better make their appearance while I am awake--even then I will need to take notes on what they say.

 

[Mem]

I find your final comment particularly thought-provoking – about people abdicating personal responsibility because "it all happens out there." You've touched upon something I've observed as well. The modern conception of angels as autonomous supernatural beings intervening in human affairs is quite different from the original Hebrew understanding of mal'ākh as simply divine messaging or communication.

This shift has had interesting psychological implications. Where the ancient Hebrews saw direct divine-human communication (requiring active engagement and responsibility), many modern believers have adopted a more passive stance, waiting for supernatural intervention through intermediary beings. It's a subtle but major shift from active spiritual dialogue to passive expectation of rescue.

I often see how this externalization of spiritual agency can become a form of psychological avoidance. It's easier to wait for an angel to solve our problems than to engage with the difficult work of personal growth and moral responsibility.

Yet, ironically, the original etymology you've shared suggests something more empowering – the idea of direct divine-human communication, where messages (whether through natural or supernatural means) require our active interpretation and response.

I only have to capability to show like for this post on this browser but think that it is worth jumping back on to the other browser just so that I can show love to it!

 

[Mem]

It says plainly in Genesis 19:1 that there were 2 angels. So the lord + 2 angels = 3 men as described in Genesis 18:2. Obviously the 3 "men" weren't mortals. The LXX has plural in Lot's addressing them

Could you offer your thoughts on how to resolve that scripture say, when Abraham spoke to the three, he addressed the LORD but "they" answered. Do you take it that they" answered Abraham in unison with the LORD, or did they each speak a word in succession to complete the specific declaration which "they" spoke?

Also, to the so-called Vulgate, of which I am not that studied other than hearing other's claims in regard to it, would the LXX somehow be related?

 

[Webers.Home]

.
To my knowledge; Michael the archangel is first mentioned by name in the
book of Daniel.

● Dan 10:12-13 . . Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set
your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God,
your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. But the
prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael,
one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with
the king of Persia.

Michael is said to be one of the chief princes so I think we may safely assume
he's not the only chief prince out there.

Plus:

● Dan 10:20-21 . . So he said, "Do you know why I have come to you? Soon
I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of
Greece will come; but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth.
(No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince.

"your prince" would indicate Michael is particularly associated with Moses'
people; the Jews.

● Dan 12:1 . . And during that time Michael will stand up, the great prince
who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people. And there will certainly
occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there
came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will
escape, every one who is found written down in the book.

Michael's first mention in the new testament is located within Jude's epistle.

● Jude 9 . . But when Michael the arch angel had a difference with the Devil
and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment
against him in abusive terms, but said: May the Lord rebuke you.

That incident is mentioned in Deut 34:5-6 wherein is said:

"Moses the servant of The Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to
the word of The Lord. And He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab,
opposite Beth-peor; but no man knows his burial place to this day."

It's been suggested that the Devil objected to secrecy. In other words; it's
possible that he wanted Moses' body enshrined in a sort of Church of the
Holy Sepulcher where the Jews could be lured into idolatry by adoring Moses'
remains as a sacred relic.

That's actually a very plausible suggestion. There's an incident mentioned in
2Kings 18:4 telling of the Jews' devotion to the fiery serpent Moses
constructed in Num 21:5-9.

Anyway; there again Michael was busy with Jewish business; leading me to
suggest that his duties are mostly related to them as a people rather than
Gentiles.
_