Ananias and his wife....aren't we all like that.....

[Dino246]

When a person makes a vow to do something it depends on whether they make that vow to people or to God.
It is better to not vow than vow and not pay it.
But they vowed unto God to give all the money to the Church but kept some of the money so it became a sin unto them and they lost their life because of it.
But I do not believe God causes people to collapse and die today if they vow and do not keep it but it is still a sin that needs to be repented of.
But Ananias and his wife knew for sure they would get money for their land and it was a sure deal but they vowed to God and kept some of the money so they sinned.

It is obvious that they vowed to God and did not keep that vow.

In which verse did Ananias and Sapphira make the vow?

 

[JohnDB]

You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
9 Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord?

 

[montana123]

In which verse did Ananias and Sapphira make the vow?

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

It seems like Ananias would of vowed to God because he lied to God which had to be about giving the money to the Church because he kept some of the money for himself.

If he lied to God it can only mean he vowed to God to give the money for the land but he kept some of the money.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

are we so different than early christians....is it part of God's plan..? Am I wrong about the Scriptures? Correct me. Thanks.

The actions of the early Jerusalem Church indicate a level of focus, and sold-out dedication to the things of God (getting rid of your stuff, and having everything common) that the comtemporary church is 1000 miles away from, for the most part. None of it, however is a surprise to God, who's plan for the age in ON SCHEDULE, and in Budget till the end of the age. He can bring it all together through the Holy Spirit very rapidly - when it's time. WE had a small taste of that in the '70s.

 

[Dino246]

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

It seems like Ananias would of vowed to God because he lied to God which had to be about giving the money to the Church because he kept some of the money for himself.

If he lied to God it can only mean he vowed to God to give the money for the land but he kept some of the money.

No, lying does not require a vow to have been made at all. You are speculating that there was a vow, and your reasoning does not support your assertion.

There was no vow made. Peter accused A & S of lying to the Holy Spirit because they lied to the Church about the value of the land they sold. It's that simple. You don't need to commit eisegesis to interpret this passage; you only need read the text carefully. Lying to the Church is lying to the Holy Spirit.

By the way, it's "would have lied", not "would of lied".

 

[Scarlett7297]

When a person makes a vow to do something it depends on whether they make that vow to people or to God.

Deu 23:21 When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.
Deu 23:22 But if thou shalt forbear to vow, it shall be no sin in thee.

If a person vows to God to do something then they should do it for if not then it is a sin.

But if you do not vow it then it is not sin which it is obvious that this is an option for the person.

Which means God did not require it of them until they made the vow.

So if you vow to God to donate so much to the Church and you do not do it then it is sin.

But I believe Ananias and his wife were an example for the early Church and God does not punish a person by death today but it is still a sin that they need to repent of.

It is probably better not to vow to God that you will do anything so then if you do not own up to it you will not have sinned.

Ecc 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
Ecc 5:5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.

It is better to not vow than vow and not pay it.

Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Peter said the land was their own and in their own power to do what they want with the land which means Ananias and his wife could of sold the land and kept all the money for themselves because God did not require the money of them.

But they vowed unto God to give all the money to the Church but kept some of the money so it became a sin unto them and they lost their life because of it.

If they had vowed to the apostles they would do it and did not vow unto God they could of kept some of the money and it would of been alright for they would of lied to people and not to God.

But I do not believe God causes people to collapse and die today if they vow and do not keep it but it is still a sin that needs to be repented of.

If a person vows to God and does not keep it then then they lied to God but He understands that some people might of been hasty and did not think it through or maybe it was out of their control and they thought they could do it but could not but actually tried to come through on the vow.

But Ananias and his wife knew for sure they would get money for their land and it was a sure deal but they vowed to God and kept some of the money so they sinned.

It is obvious that they vowed to God and did not keep that vow and that they said they would give all the money to the Church for if they vowed to the disciples and kept some of the money they would not of died.

And they could of sold the land and kept all the money and not died if they did not vow to God for He did not require that they give it to the Church but it was their own land and in their own power to do whatever they wanted to do with that land whether not sell it or sell it and keep all the money.

where is it mentioned the vow was to God

 

[Evmur]

The actions of the early Jerusalem Church indicate a level of focus, and sold-out dedication to the things of God (getting rid of your stuff, and having everything common) that the comtemporary church is 1000 miles away from, for the most part. None of it, however is a surprise to God, who's plan for the age in ON SCHEDULE, and in Budget till the end of the age. He can bring it all together through the Holy Spirit very rapidly - when it's time. WE had a small taste of that in the '70s.

eh? "in the 70s?"

kindly elucidate ... I'm just afraid I missed something ...

 

[Evmur]

I mean who among us has sold a property and paid the whole amount of it to a church...? Yes I think that the problem was that they lied about keeping the money to themselves. Is that all that was about...? Was it about us selling our property and giving that much amount of money to a church. This is one difference I feel our churches today have....we are not having one single bank ...and I believe the early believers sold everything and had only one money bank for all who had need. but all of us are different. we go have jobs , we have not left it to be in the church all the time...we may give 1/10th of our money perhaps but not all of our money and have a single bank for all christians distributing to everyone as needed. what changed..? y are we so different than early christians....is it part of God's plan..? Am I wrong about the Scriptures? Correct me. Thanks.

Tithing is Abrahamic not Moses, Abe paid a tenf of all the spoils that God had empowered him to win, who was the tithe paid to? Melchizadek King of peace, King of righteousness =The Lord Jesus Christ, this make tithing a kingdom affair [in my humble view]

Paul did not teach tithing, he taught we should decide what to give and set it aside on the first day of every week .. oh uh er just a minute isn't that a tithe with [Paul hopes] the upper limit of a tenth removed?

Tithing [in my humble view] is God's golden key to prosperity, to everyone who believes.

 

[pottersclay]

Generally I agree with your posts, but you're going way outside of Scripture here. There is no requirement to tithe for Christians, PERIOD. Your implication is clear, that Christians ARE expected to tithe, and will suffer if they disobey.

Kindly make the clear distinction between voluntary offerings, which are strongly encouraged and even expected under the new covenant, and tithing, which is required under the OLD covenant but a non-issue under the new.

Tithing is not a requirement in the new covenant it is up to the individual and what GOD places on their heart to do.
A cheerful giver is the requirement, not to do begrudgingly or exalt ones status and importance to the church.
Trusting God in all your ways is the example we are to follow which is spiritual, physical, and financial.
Does God frown on one that does not tithe....no.... but then again one might experience a lack of blessing of promise the Lord may bestow. Not that we should expect to be compensated but that we have entered in to the nature of GOD.

The above event in acts is a reminder that God hates a lying tongue. Being truthful no matter the situation is key to approaching the Lord. One could of said " I have given a portion of the sum" but in order to keep their appearance of sold out for the church sorta speak they both choose to lie.
God knows the heart and truth....why lie to him that knows you best?
As the Centurion said so truthfully to Jesus " i believe but please help with my unbelief.

Pretty sure i did dino 🙄🙄

 

[Dino246]

You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
9 Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord?

"Conspiring" has nothing to do with "vowing".

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

eh? "in the 70s?"

kindly elucidate ... I'm just afraid I missed something ...

It was called the "Charismatic outpouring", and for a brief time, "Denominational differences" became irrelevant, and we were "just Christians" - until the outpouring ended in the late '70s, and we went back to our separate little boxes again.

 

[Evmur]

It was called the "Charismatic outpouring", and for a brief time, "Denominational differences" became irrelevant, and we were "just Christians" - until the outpouring ended in the late '70s, and we went back to our separate little boxes again.

Oh right, yes I was part of all that, I always plumped for the Pentecostals mesself because they had a little discipline in their doctrines but folks were getting saved and baptised in the Holy Ghost sure enough.

But the charismatic church has itself become a distinct entity ... some good stuff going on.

... I don't care too much about denomination. I think what has happened is a preparation ...

 

[Runningman]

I mean who among us has sold a property and paid the whole amount of it to a church...? Yes I think that the problem was that they lied about keeping the money to themselves. Is that all that was about...? Was it about us selling our property and giving that much amount of money to a church. This is one difference I feel our churches today have....we are not having one single bank ...and I believe the early believers sold everything and had only one money bank for all who had need. but all of us are different. we go have jobs , we have not left it to be in the church all the time...we may give 1/10th of our money perhaps but not all of our money and have a single bank for all christians distributing to everyone as needed. what changed..? y are we so different than early christians....is it part of God's plan..? Am I wrong about the Scriptures? Correct me. Thanks.

Mark 3:28
28"Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme..."

Jesus said that all sins would be forgiven, but that does not always exclude us from physical consequences up and and including death.

Luke 13:4,5
4Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

In my view, Jesus basically said that when the tower of Siloam fell on 18 people and killed them that their spiritual status was irrelevant. The point is repenting is more important.

If you read between the lines a bit, contrasting and comparing, the story of Ananias and his wife Sapphira in Acts 5, the story of the tower of Siloam, the question is were these people given a chance to repent before their deaths? Or had they already repented and therefore didn't need an opportunity to repent?

Ananias and Sapphira were saved members of the early church. What insight can we glean from their fate and what repentance is exactly? Repentance a one time event or a process that must be repeated as often as necessary?

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Oh right, yes I was part of all that, I always plumped for the Pentecostals mesself because they had a little discipline in their doctrines but folks were getting saved and baptised in the Holy Ghost sure enough.

But the charismatic church has itself become a distinct entity ... some good stuff going on.

Oddly, the "Charismatic movement HASN'T generated "Denominational groups" in the same way that the Pentecostal revival did back in 1910 - 1920. The AG was launched in 1914, and they tossed McAlister's "Jesus Only" lunatic fringe in 1916 with their proclamation of the trinity.

I don't care too much about denomination. I think what has happened is a preparation ...

Agree.

I've been Assembly of God for most of the last 59 years since about 1964 or so, and the AG BEFORE the Charismatic outpouring was a VERY legalistic, "Clothesline holy", "One strike and you're OUT", "our way or the highway" bunch.

The "Assemblies of God" were dead set AGAINST the Charismatic outpouring (not Clothesline Holy enough for 'em. There were women cutting their hair, and wearing PANTS!! Folks were having alcohol, and there were Spirit filled Presbyterians, and Lutherans, and Episcopalians, and even Spirit filled Catholics involved in it - ( Horrors!!! )

AFTER the "outpouring", when Charismatics started flowing back into their old churches, the AG picked up MANY former charismatics, which had the effect of "Un-legalizing" the denomination, and making it more liberal than it was. SO I agree that "Preparation" (demonstrating to us the relative unimportance of our "Denominational fences") was a major effect.

 

[John146]

One more reason why to be careful getting doctrine from the book of Acts. It's a transition book.

 

[Evmur]

Oddly, the "Charismatic movement HASN'T generated "Denominational groups" in the same way that the Pentecostal revival did back in 1910 - 1920. The AG was launched in 1914, and they tossed McAlister's "Jesus Only" lunatic fringe in 1916 with their proclamation of the trinity.




Agree.

I've been Assembly of God for most of the last 59 years since about 1964 or so, and the AG BEFORE the Charismatic outpouring was a VERY legalistic, "Clothesline holy", "One strike and you're OUT", "our way or the highway" bunch.

The "Assemblies of God" were dead set AGAINST the Charismatic outpouring (not Clothesline Holy enough for 'em. There were women cutting their hair, and wearing PANTS!! Folks were having alcohol, and there were Spirit filled Presbyterians, and Lutherans, and Episcopalians, and even Spirit filled Catholics involved in it - ( Horrors!!! )

AFTER the "outpouring", when Charismatics started flowing back into their old churches, the AG picked up MANY former charismatics, which had the effect of "Un-legalizing" the denomination, and making it more liberal than it was. SO I agree that "Preparation" (demonstrating to us the relative unimportance of our "Denominational fences") was a major effect.

A little known fact about Smith Wigglesworth is that he never joined a Pentecostal denomination, he never spoke against them when they were formed, it would have been out of character for him to critisize but his not joining speaks volumes. He belonged to what was known as the Pentecostal union an interdenominational movement.

This is less surprising when we learn that he himself received the baptism of the Holy Spirit after the laying on of hands by an Anglican vicar's wife.

He told the vision he had toward the end of his life of a mighty out pouring of the Holy Spirit yet to come.

 

[oyster67]

I think that the problem was that they lied

Yes.