I'm a fan of the band but I don't know anything about him personally. Is there something outside of him being 60 years old dating an 18 year old woman that makes you think he's a creep out of curiosity?
Age Difference
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I'm a fan of the band but I don't know anything about him personally. Is there something outside of him being 60 years old dating an 18 year old woman that makes you think he's a creep out of curiosity?
unwarranted accusations are not appropriate
You are full of kaka because you are a Mormon. This is a Christian site not a Mormon site.
He's a Mormon? That's not what his about page says...
Is this how you discuss/make your arguments? I'm a non-denominational Christian for the record. What made you so hostile for asking a valid question?
Definitely not a Mormon as I speak out against their teachings and false prophet. This person is highly confused and chose to personally attack me rather than engage in a good faith discussion about age gap relationships. She offers no moral counter argument, only ad hominem.
At least she is consistent. That is definitely on brand for her.
I was just wondering if I had missed something somewhere. But apparently not.
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daisyseesthesun
Guest
Smoke, perhaps you should re-examine post 58-60. If you see it from the female perspective, is there anything you might find offensive?
In a male or female lens, I don't think there is anything offensive that I said. In post #60, I did share my anecdotal perception on people I've engaged in discussion with over this particular topic and perhaps someone who fits in that description would be offended. This wasn't a personal attack to anyone but rather a testimony of the type of person who disapproves with age gap relationships that I have discussed this topic with.
May I ask your personal opinion? Do you think there was anything offensive in those posts?
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daisyseesthesun
Guest
Smoke the fact that women who have previously been in similar relationships discouraged it so is that young women are at such a severe disadvantage in such relationships.
What women mean by their just children at 18 is that we are so immature at that age.
What women mean by their just children at 18 is that we are so immature at that age.
Just chipping in my vote, for what it's worth. (It's not.)
I went back and reread the cited posts. I didn't see anything wrong with them. He stated his observation of the demographics he has seen tend toward certain behaviors.
I don't know anything about those groups of people or those behaviors, and if I did I still don't know what it's like where he lives. Things people do in Seattle seem quite strange to us down here in Southwest TN. So I consider it very probable that he was in fact just stating what he has observed.
Sure, perhaps in a particular case the 18 year old is at a disadvantage. It's certainly possible. Nevertheless, was there anything offensive in what I said?
To engage in your point though, anything is possible, right? Maybe the older adult is at a more disadvantage in terms of resources but otherwise doesn't mind. If it's that 18 year olds are too immature, then we should really consider the age of consent and when a human becomes an adult. I don't disagree than generally, there is a correlation with "age" and "maturity", but that isn't really what we are talking here. Where is the moral argument in two consenting adults with an age gap? Is there one?
My opinion comes directly from observation. People find it "icky" that a young adult and an older adult are together. I 100% understand the ick factor. However, I find country/rap music extremely icky. I find pineapple on pizza icky. Sushi is pretty icky to me. Nevertheless, there isn't a moral argument against any of that. What we don't have the right to do is make up fake moral positions on things we simply find "icky" though.
You went too far with the sushi example. I can eat my weight at a sushi buffet...
Wait, if I ate my weight, wouldn't that add to my weight and create an ever-moving goal?
Well, I can eat a whole lot of sushi. Icky... HMPH!
D
daisyseesthesun
Guest
If you find the needle in the haystack, that is a good Christian man, then go for it, but for the majority of women, it is probably not a good idea.
I think maturity directly correlates with age. As for mood, I see men get more grouchy as they get older, while women tend to get calmer.
What does a man go after an 18-year-old, anyway? From my experience ( my mom was a hair salon owner), men who chase after one 18-year-old, then the woman gets older, he divorces her now in his 50s- 60s, and he goes and marries a woman who looks just like his wife but is way younger. This has happened so many times. But the flip side of this: these men and their egos, it may surprise you how many of them, even into their 70s, think they could get an 18-year-old...
I think maturity directly correlates with age. As for mood, I see men get more grouchy as they get older, while women tend to get calmer.
What does a man go after an 18-year-old, anyway? From my experience ( my mom was a hair salon owner), men who chase after one 18-year-old, then the woman gets older, he divorces her now in his 50s- 60s, and he goes and marries a woman who looks just like his wife but is way younger. This has happened so many times. But the flip side of this: these men and their egos, it may surprise you how many of them, even into their 70s, think they could get an 18-year-old...
Studies indicate people in general, men and women, get calmer as they age. They can regulate emotions better, appreciate the important things in life, focus more on the present, etc... This is especially true in marriages but especially not true with single women as they age though. In fact, never-married women tend to only be slightly happier than widowed and divorced women.
With single people, what happens is we accumulate baggage from one failed relationship after another. We also get really comfortable being single (which isn't necessarily a good thing) and we resist changes that a relationship would otherwise command. Men have the luxury of dating younger women who tend to have less baggage. Society is even more forgiving of such age gap relationships. Women on the other hand, do not get the social pass that men do. Women tend to be less interested in dating men significantly younger than them. Of course they exist and they call them things like "cougars", but comparatively, it's not nearly as common. I could understand the appeal of wanting to date someone with less baggage. There are of course a multitude of other factors that people look towards in finding a significant other. I don't want to focus too much on the physical attributes, but studies indicate men find women 19-23 at their peak beauty. The data shows this is true for men of all age types 18 and older. The studies for women tend to vary between 30-35 for men being at their peak beauty.
I just don't understand how it's morally wrong for a man to be attracted to an adult female at the peak of her beauty especially when we consider she is at her prime to carry his children. I'm all ears though.
I didn't respond to this paragraph as it didn't properly load.
I agree this probably happens often. No-fault divorce has ruined marriage in this country. Feminism has infected the church.
For the sake of discussion, lets say a 30 year old man marries an 18 year old woman. 20 years later, they divorce because the wife cheated. What is wrong exactly for the man dating/marrying a younger women who happens to resemble his ex wife? Is having a physical type immoral?
If they divorced for reasons outside biblical standards, then I would easily disagree with the man dating/marrying ANYONE else, regardless of the woman's age or physical likeness.
As for men being delusional in their 70s by thinking they can get an 18 year old woman, I'm sure they exist. However, men tend to be a lot more rational than women when it comes to what they can get. There is a reason for this and if you're interested, I'll explain.
This is especially true in secular society, but men will often "date down". By "dating down", I'm referring to dating someone who is less physically attractive than they are. Now, this doesn't mean that men will COMMIT to someone who is below him in physical attractiveness, but she will be used as companionship and perhaps immoral things I won't get into.
Women often don't date down unless the guy has a disproportional amount of resources for her to overlook his lack of physical attractiveness. In fact, women can often match up with "higher tier" men (socially speaking) because men do in fact date down (but may not commit). So imagine a pro athlete who is worth millions and is in top physical shape being lonely one night and one of these single women hit's him up on social media. She is an average woman in every way lets say. She offers up herself to his desires and he takes her up on her offer. The next day, she is telling her girlfriends that she hooked up with the "high tier" man and she thinks they are a thing now.... Only... he never talks to her again. She becomes upset but quickly gets over it because some other guy is hitting her up (albeit not on the same social tier as the other man). She NOW thinks her floor with men is an attractive man in the peak of his fitness worth millions... She is delusional. She isn't going to get commitment from someone like that, but she could be used for a night. Sure...
Men often get rejected, even by women comparable to them in social status. In fact, men tell other men the truth even if it hurts their feeling more often. Women love to gas each other up to be "nice" and supportive. This further adds to their delusion.
To be fair, this is primarily towards secular society, but this type of garbage is finding it's way inside the church. This is why it's important we date people who are equally yoked and have a biblical understanding and expectation towards roles as husband and wife.
The problem is, what happens when men are attracted to women at their peak beauty at a young age -- and the woman, as everyone does, grows past that stage?
It seems a lot of people, both men and women, look for someone at their "peak beauty" -- so what happens when that beauty begins to slide downhill? They generally get replaced for shinier, newer model who is also at their "peak." (But again, what happens when that one ages out as well?)
I think the main protest against couples with large age gaps is that you usually don't find a 50-year-old man who is still a virgin and marrying a 20-year-old as his first wife or sex partner.
Now of course, maybe the 20-year-old isn't a virgin either. But what I'm getting at is that he's usually already had at least one wife and kids -- and is replacing his current wife with the 20-year-old -- whereas this may be the 20-year-old's first time ever marrying and/or having children.
So the issue is more than the age gap -- it's about women being replaced once they're past, say, 30 years old and no longer at "peak beauty."
I've often told the story of a guy on a Christian dating site whose profile said "not to waste is his time if you didn't have the body of a model, cheerleader, or gymnast" (these were his exact descriptions and yes, he really did say not to waste his time,) because, "God made men visual," so he saw that as his right to a hot wife.
The one thing I'll give him credit for is that if the picture he posted was real, he was very overweight and had an obvious double chin, so I applaud him for being upfront. But by golly, he was convinced he DESERVED a model-looking wife from God because he was made to appreciate beautiful women!
My inner-thought reply to that was, "If God made men visual, does that mean He made women blind?"
My prayer for this kind of thinking is always that the person will be blessed with someone who has equal demands -- though possibly in different ways. And I do pray that if I meet someone, we can meet a set of standards that will hopefully equal each other out, rather than one demanding things they don't live up to themselves.
The reality that Christian women are facing is that unless they are "at peak beauty" or a "peak age" -- they are completely dismissed as not being suitable for anyone. I've seen this myself in the dating world, though I seem to get both older and younger guys who ask me out (but it's only because people say I look younger than I am.)
And if these women dare to live past that peak beauty or peak age -- they are often replaced when their spouse decides God's "best" for him is someone young and new. On the female side, some women decide God's best for them is a man who makes more money -- and so they replace their husband with someone they see as "a better provider."
Christian or not, just about all of us know someone this has happened to -- or are themselves the someone who's gone through it.
I understand what you're saying about age-gapped relationships. But you have to think of it on the opposite side.
On the male side, if men decide they can be with women half their own wives' age, and other men are ok with that, what about when women who decide they want to be with a man who has twice her current husband's salary?
The men will argue that there's nothing wrong with a man going after a beautiful woman because that's how God made them, and besides, they need a younger woman to have their children. (This argument gets sketchy if the man is say, 50 and up.)
But the women could also argue that God made them to look for the best provider, and a man making $400,000 will surely be a better provider for a family than one making $40,000, right?
It's unfair to either side, but those who feel they can benefit from it will justify their side and feel completely vindicated. However... if the standards shifts against them, that's when people will start to protest.
Everyone likes when the coin toss lands in their favor -- but no one wants to be on the losing side.
Let's assume it does generally happen. It doesn't necessarily mean it WILL happen. Some people do only look at the physical and I can see this happening when they do this. But, it's possible to find a God fearing woman who is young and at her peak physical appearance. That shouldn't be all you look for. I think we would mutually agree on this.
What would be the problem in finding a repentant partner who is no longer a virgin? I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.
If this is the issue, then I would agree that is wrong. But people don't really point to this as you have. They typically point to it being "icky". That is their argument against it. No moral argument whatsoever. You brought a moral issue by stating that the man purposely replaced his ex wife with a new model. If that was done... in THIS scenario, then you didn't give me a moral argument against age gaps, but a scenario where there was something outside the age related variable that makes it immoral. But I genuinely appreciate the way you're engaging with me on the topic. <3
He does women a service by making it easier for women with righteous desires to swipe left. Sorry you experienced that.
I feel bad for him honestly.
I'm surprised to read this because the above picture is what I see with many single women who claim it's hard to find anyone interested in them. I obviously can't refute your lived experience, but I pray everyone can get their righteous desire answered by God.
Once again, thank you for your input. I will engage more tomorrow. God bless you sister.