against Grace Only preaching

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#61
I have nothing against the Sabbath.

if anyone wants to honor the twilight fri.-through twilight sat., then that is fine.

however, it is a choice. it is NOT a command for gentile Christ followers.

Christians keep the Lord's day. ( Jesus did NOT rise on the Sabbath, that is another judeaizer lie),

nine of the 10 commnads were repeated in the N.T., with the exception being Shabbat.
Well, love is not a commandment for Jews only but everyone.

When you say the NT has 9 out of 10 commandments, are you suggesting that it is ok to keep the 9 except the sabbath? How about this:

Gal 5:14The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Whenever people asked Jesus how to inherit the kingdom of God, He always told them to keep the commandments. Jesus never said keep 9 out of 10. IOW, Jesus was saying love others as you have been loved. The bad news is, love is never a thought but a work.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
#62
Just another religious hoop jumping thread.....
Actually it's a missunderstanding of Grace, much like yours, and there is only one thing we can do about it. Walk in the Light we have to get more Light. Grace is the influence of God to do one thing. "This one thing I do, forgetring what lies behind I press on,"...
Wen we have "Grace through Faith," "Nothing shall be impossible, to you if you believe." I can do all things through Christ who strengtens me."
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#63
Actually it's a missunderstanding of Grace, much like yours, and there is only one thing we can do about it. Walk in the Light we have to get more Light. Grace is the influence of God to do one thing. "This one thing I do, forgetring what lies behind I press on,"...
Wen we have "Grace through Faith," "Nothing shall be impossible, to you if you believe." I can do all things through Christ who strengtens me."
The more you flap the more obvious it becomes that you have no understanding of Grace....!
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#65
Actually it's a missunderstanding of Grace, much like yours, and there is only one thing we can do about it. Walk in the Light we have to get more Light. Grace is the influence of God to do one thing. "This one thing I do, forgetring what lies behind I press on,"...
Wen we have "Grace through Faith," "Nothing shall be impossible, to you if you believe." I can do all things through Christ who strengtens me."
Yes "Grace through Christ's work of Faith,"

Whose light do we have and whose do we need more of?

If his light is not the influence as our confidence .Then who will work in us till the last day? The light reveals it in Philipiapian1:16

Philippians 1:6 having been confident of this very thing, that He who did begin in you a good work, will perform it till a day of Jesus Christ,

God is light. Not only that he can create it but its what makes God, God. A lamp unto our feet. a light on our path all in one.( batteries included...)
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
#66
Bateries included, where do we find this in rhe bible. I just had to look.
"Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; the coming to Me never shall hunger, and the believing in Me shall never thirst."
You bean batwries that dont wear out. lol
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#67
Actually it's a missunderstanding of Grace, much like yours, and there is only one thing we can do about it. Walk in the Light we have to get more Light. Grace is the influence of God to do one thing. "This one thing I do, forgetring what lies behind I press on,"...
Wen we have "Grace through Faith," "Nothing shall be impossible, to you if you believe." I can do all things through Christ who strengtens me."
Grace is giving something to someone that they do not deserve, forgiving someone who does not need forgiven, chosing someone who does not deserve to be chosen.

you have a misinformed view of what grace is.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#68
Dont be so hard on yourself, God must have shown His influence to you at one time.
The question is, has he shown it on you?

it does not appear so
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#69
Bateries included, where do we find this in rhe bible. I just had to look.
"Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; the coming to Me never shall hunger, and the believing in Me shall never thirst."
You bean batwries that dont wear out. lol
when are you going to believe this promise given to ALL who trust Christ?
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
#70
Grace is giving something to someone that they do not deserve, forgiving someone who does not need forgiven, chosing someone who does not deserve to be chosen.

you have a misinformed view of what grace is.
Grace according to the dictionary, a part that you left out, that is overlooked and I begin to underatand: Divine influence upon the heart, to act change in Life.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
#71
The question is, has he shown it on you?

it does not appear so
I will incluse my own experience: since I was asked a similar question by ElevenHour. What would I tel someone who need salvation.
"All things work for good to them who Love the Lord." We learn to be confident in Him and not teust in man who can not help, and avoid those who desure to be in charge, to run the race aet before us, "Looking to Jesus, the Autor and finisher of our Faith." Will copy here.
That he needs to call on Jesus. This is how I met Jesus 42 years ago. I was saying the name of Jesus as a mantra for about an hour a day. Not actually expecting Him to actually answer, but for protection against opresion of evil. This is the only time He spoke in a loud voice, He said: Behold if you call upon the name of the Lord He will come. His word pearced my heart like a sword and I fell unconacious. I thought i died but I knew He did this and that I was in His care. I felt Loved and accepted, it was good to be there. At the time was living with a woman that I was not married with, it was not adressed. I woke up on the floor in the morning and my first thought was: something happened last night but what was it. As it sais "The natural man can not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are spiritually diacerned. About three weeks laiter in a quiet voice: Everywhere you look you'll see the cross. At that time I understood I had to make my choise in life, wether I was going to live for myself or for the Lord. Now the meaning of everywhere you look, is a constant choise to deny myself and daily bear the cross that ends my selfish existance (idolising women), to follow Him. A couple monts after the experience I met a christian who had been told by the Holy Spirit to go to a drop in center, wher he met me and helped me realise I could not try to please 2 masters. I still had sorcery and eastern religion perspective, seeing Jesus as my spiritual master. I was then involves in the pentecostal Church he was in and in a charismatic renewal where I received the Holy Spirit who touchced me with an intence power that stoped when I bcame scared. Ihear the Lord practically every day, more so recently in the past year. One important word that still gives me perspective on the Journey: Stay on the cross. Just before this word at the time had read about a womans encojnter with the Lord in a dream, He tild her: Stay on the Roc. Its possible that abiding in Him is diferent for men and woman and children. A child was tild that woman and children dont havr to fight in thebdinal battle (the battle is already won). I will include words he told me 6 monts ago over a period of 3 weeks, when I decided in prayer to quit my job, to have time alone with Him first. (Now back to work until I retire in 6 to 8 monts). He did tel me that i was not ready (to see Him), but to go. The learning experience to face my shallow prayer life.

Directions received in preparation for Journey:
"We will give ourselves to prayer."
Withhold nothing, take nothing, you have to be determined to succeed. Your prayer life must increase, content to participate in the mystery of God. Go, this is a time of prayer; it’s the only way you'll succeed. Keep yourself in the Love of God, don't give up: you’re not ready. Be still: know that I Am with you. "Wait on the Lord and He will strengthen your heart." Your prayer life has to extend in all areas of your life. What you do not realize is that the war is accomplished: it's not as simple as you getting the power, you have to Love the Truth. Give up your life, no more going back to idols.
Don't be afraid, above all surrender (give Him your fear). Don’t stay outside, don’t worry, Psalm 118. Be Faithful unto death. Seek Me more than your necessary food. Don’t fight against the Holy Ghost, give yourself to prayer. Give yourself to Him, you need to change, no longer desire earthly things, come and be reconciled. Make the most of your time, live in Prayer, don't want anything else. Don’t forget.

Please understand that there is no limit to our growing experience in Christ, this is what is controversial. Our salvation does not fit in a box of our u derstanding but is oart of the Mistery of . To overcome this present evil world and have part in the first Resurrection. "Many are called but few are chosen." These are refered as "Called, Chosen, and Faithful."
About 8 Monts after the first experience, as I was seeking the Lord for a Word for my life: Be wholehearted in My word and I will accord the a portion with the great (I was reading old English at the time, He also speaks in french when I read in French).
These are the servants of the Lord who become His friends.
About 2 mont laiter, while taking pride in hearing Him heard: Your going to fall that you may learn to continually repent. To keep this brief, 22 years laiter after marriage break, fell in drug adiction and chasing ungodly women. The Lord srill spoke to me encouraging words even then. One word of reproof while living for pleasure: You disqualify youself as a priest. I understand this mostly as an intercessor for now and neither am I profiscient. We are "Living letters," that none can argue wirh: desent mattee what anyone sais, we are what we are in His Name: I Am. Habing the Grace we need. That, no one can argue. I felt quite disqualified from being called, until the Lord ashured me it wasent the case. Before coming out of drug adiction, at a time we were encouraged to fast for direction in the Church. I was surprised by a Word: Do the work of an evangelist, the rest dis not surprize me: Fear not I am with you. Then: Pray for the Anoimting. This is ongoing and have notbreceived, except glimpses of the refreshing of revival. Everything will be easier and more chalenging when that happens. this will be for the final time of trouble that He told me of 36 years ago. Behold I am with you in a time of trouble such as neverv was and shall never be again. I'm glad my story is not simple and believable.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#72
Grace according to the dictionary, a part that you left out, that is overlooked and I begin to underatand: Divine influence upon the heart, to act change in Life.
Grace does change lives
whoever recieves grace and salvation is changed

if only you believed this.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#74
Against Bible preaching! Shut it down!
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,320
1,448
113
#75
Let's start with:
"S-- Search the New Testament especially for the 1050 commandments. (Need to know what pleases God.)"
Even the Pharisees, whom Jesus judged as workers of woe, (Luke 11:37-54) only had to obey 611 commands to be righteous. This is a completely works based statement.

Yes, we do have to obey God, and his Word, but phrased like this, it is a work list that you must check off to be saved, so I object to it!

Then there is:
"I-- Intellectualism is not very important compared to Christian Sanctification."

Stupidest thing I have read in a LONG time! Besides the fact that it is clear part of our sanctification is dependent on the renewing of our mind (Romans 12:2) and studying the Word. (2 Tim. 3:16-17) Sorry buddy, you don't get sanctified without learning and studying the Bible. In fact, most people here, except perhaps, new Christians, have spent a lot of time using their brains (also known as intellect) to study the Bible! That includes everyone from all stripes and theologies, including the ones I don't agree with!

Then, we move to the hysterically absurd in the next acronym:

"B-- Bible understanding and obeying is so important."
I don't disagree at all. But seriously, it is saying the exact opposite of the letter one above it. Anti-intellectual means you do not study the Bible to show yourself a worker approved. So, a complete conflict with the letter I.

A little more thought would have helped this acronym stay faithful to the Bible, instead of a bunch of made up nonsense.
Now that was a very well-informed and well-written post and it very much helps me understand why people react to the OP.

I do, though, feel a bit of venom flowing out of (maybe warranted?) it though? And giving me a "disagree" for asking to point out what in the acrostic makes people think this is works based? I don't understand that, but every person is entitled to their opinion.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#76
Well, love is not a commandment for Jews only but everyone.

When you say the NT has 9 out of 10 commandments, are you suggesting that it is ok to keep the 9 except the sabbath? How about this:

Gal 5:14The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Whenever people asked Jesus how to inherit the kingdom of God, He always told them to keep the commandments. Jesus never said keep 9 out of 10. IOW, Jesus was saying love others as you have been loved. The bad news is, love is never a thought but a work.
It "seems", some people get "hung up" over things "spiritual", simply due to the fact that what is "seen in print", must be "obeyed" "by the flesh!"

To which Jesus' words to Nicodemus "rings", all the truer: "What's flesh, is flesh." "What's Spirit, is Spirit."

To be "solely dependent", on the "Word of God", to be "passed on", by "word of mouth", or as Israel called it "oral traditions?" Is the precise reason of the WHY God's Letter to us, through His faithful servants the Prophets, and "in and through" Christ Jesus, and His Disciples, and Apostles?
HAD to be "put in print!"

The "reason?" The "falling" and "drifting away!" The "love of God waxing cold!"
These words of Paul were not so much "prophecy" concerning the "end times", as they were a "testimony" of that which had, and is still happening, from the "garden of Eden incident" (yea, even before the foundations of this current earth/heaven age), up until his (Paul) time on earth, and even to this very day. And tomorrow too! And the day after that etc.etc.
This is the "beauty" of God! As He "reveals" this to those that have eyes to see and ears to hear! That "truths" can be both "HIS-story" and "Spiritually ACCURATE" simultaneously, in the SAME relating of! Depending on one's
(how can I say) "level/s of understanding." ("My Words shall NEVER pass away!")
Meaning, it isn't "subject" to "Majority rule of interpretation, nor application!"
See what happened to Israel?
And Christendom is so "arrogant" to believe: "THAT!" "CAN'T happen to us?"
How so dangerously naive, for the "willfully ignorant!"


Something to which "hard core" "contextual literalist's", cannot "fathom." A "truth", they cannot "handle!" (to turn a phrase from "A Few Good Men")

To which I say, they may be winning "Skirmishes" in the the "war for the preservation of the saints."
As "love covers" a multitude of sin.
But, in their "zeal" of winning with love only?
They have "lost sight" of the TOTAL WAR, occurring all around them, but especially within themselves.
Which is where "cessation doctrines" have devolved from.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#77
It "seems", some people get "hung up" over things "spiritual", simply due to the fact that what is "seen in print", must be "obeyed" "by the flesh!"

To which Jesus' words to Nicodemus "rings", all the truer: "What's flesh, is flesh." "What's Spirit, is Spirit."

To be "solely dependent", on the "Word of God", to be "passed on", by "word of mouth", or as Israel called it "oral traditions?" Is the precise reason of the WHY God's Letter to us, through His faithful servants the Prophets, and "in and through" Christ Jesus, and His Disciples, and Apostles?
HAD to be "put in print!"

The "reason?" The "falling" and "drifting away!" The "love of God waxing cold!"
These words of Paul were not so much "prophecy" concerning the "end times", as they were a "testimony" of that which had, and is still happening, from the "garden of Eden incident" (yea, even before the foundations of this current earth/heaven age), up until his (Paul) time on earth, and even to this very day. And tomorrow too! And the day after that etc.etc.
This is the "beauty" of God! As He "reveals" this to those that have eyes to see and ears to hear! That "truths" can be both "HIS-story" and "Spiritually ACCURATE" simultaneously, in the SAME relating of! Depending on one's
(how can I say) "level/s of understanding." ("My Words shall NEVER pass away!")
Meaning, it isn't "subject" to "Majority rule of interpretation, nor application!"
See what happened to Israel?
And Christendom is so "arrogant" to believe: "THAT!" "CAN'T happen to us?"
How so dangerously naive, for the "willfully ignorant!"


Something to which "hard core" "contextual literalist's", cannot "fathom." A "truth", they cannot "handle!" (to turn a phrase from "A Few Good Men")

To which I say, they may be winning "Skirmishes" in the the "war for the preservation of the saints."
As "love covers" a multitude of sin.
But, in their "zeal" of winning with love only?
They have "lost sight" of the TOTAL WAR, occurring all around them, but especially within themselves.
Which is where "cessation doctrines" have devolved from.
So many things being taught today by the so called 'qualified teachers' that sound so good as if truth but misleading. I wish people could just read the bible with no preconceived doctrine.
 

Matthew55

Active member
Dec 29, 2018
117
30
28
#78
Yep. Most think they need to park their brains when they become "Christians." This is why so many are lost in out of context "Christian" beliefs and balk when presented with truth. As Peter said, grow in grace AND knowledge, 2 Peter 3:18. 2 Peter 1:5 as well, and this knowledge is not verses out of context as many of the non-Reformed practice in a simpleton-esque belief system.
If Jesus gives us his grace freely, why does Peter say that we must grow in grace?

And how do we grow our grace?
 

Matthew55

Active member
Dec 29, 2018
117
30
28
#79
Grace is giving something to someone that they do not deserve, forgiving someone who does not need forgiven, chosing someone who does not deserve to be chosen.

you have a misinformed view of what grace is.
How do we grow our grace? 2 Peter 3:18?
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
#80
If Jesus gives us his grace freely, why does Peter say that we must grow in grace?

And how do we grow our grace?
Give me what it means biblically in your mind first and we can go from there.