Abrahamic Covenant? God giving abundance to his people

blueluna5 · Nov 30, 2023

A covenant in the Bible is the deepest truth or promise provided. It's impossible for God to break it.... and it has nothing to do with you. It has to do with him making the promise and the fact that God can't lie. If he lies, he dies and so do we.

Here it is:
Gen. 12:2
I will make you you into a great nation, and I will bless you.
I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse. And all people on earth will be blessed through you.

Later... Abraham lies and says Sarah is his sister. Despite this, he continues going to God and is blessed. It's an obligation God has to fulfill because of his own words.

Gen. 13:2 Abraham had become very wealthy in livestock, silver, and gold.

Do you understand that abundance belongs to the children of God yet?

Replace Abraham with Jesus. Of course Jesus was also rich. A caravan of camels sent by 3 kings of gold was given to him! God made this promise to Abraham and God doesn't change! Now do you understand why king Herod was so mad about another king being born and set to overthrow him?

How does the Abrahamic covenant apply to you?

Gideon300 · Dec 1, 2023

blueluna5 said:

I wonder how Christians in North Korea are getting on. No one apart from the ruling elites has even enough to eat. Christians in Iran? Iraq? How about Afghanistan? How about Paul? 2 Corinthians 6:10

'....sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything."
1 Timothy 6:8-10
"But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with these. Those who want to be rich, however, fall into temptation and become ensnared by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. By craving it, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows.…

My wife and I are comfortable. By many standards, we could be said to be rich. We are nothing like Abraham or Solomon."

I got caught up in this prosperity business about 40 years ago. It is deceptive. Those who preach it get rich at the expense of whose who fall under the spell. All I got out of it was broke. I began instead to give biblically, to the leadership of the fellowship I was involved with and my lot is now vastly better. Kevin Hagin snr was one of the first to preach prosperity. He warned against exactly what has happened to the movement.

Chester · Dec 1, 2023

blueluna5 said:

Jesus was rich? He had no place to lay his head: owned no property.

Does abundance belong to the children of God?

Absolutely - but this abundance is not the gold and silver of the world that corrodes and corrupts! It is the abundance of spiritual blessings, character, and relationships of the Kingdom of God.

Sorry, I will not bite at your bait of wealth - I much prefer the wealth of eternal life and relationships with Jesus Christ. Neither will I become a part of or support a system of church that gives money, position, and wealth, and ease to a few and leaves the rest in a spiritual and material whirlwind of lost dreams and ambitions.

Aaron56 · Dec 1, 2023

Chester said:

This ^

Cameron143 · Dec 1, 2023

Chester said:

Jesus was rich? He had no place to lay his head: owned no property.

Does abundance belong to the children of God?

Absolutely - but this abundance is not the gold and silver of the world that corrodes and corrupts! It is the abundance of spiritual blessings, character, and relationships of the Kingdom of God.

Sorry, I will not bite at your bait of wealth - I much prefer the wealth of eternal life and relationships with Jesus Christ. Neither will I become a part of or support a system of church that gives money, position, and wealth, and ease to a few and leaves the rest in a spiritual and material whirlwind of lost dreams and ambitions.

^^^^^^
Triple double this

Aaron56 · Dec 1, 2023

As we mature in the Lord, with increasing trust in Him, He blesses us with His presence. In this, we become carriers of the grace we preach, or rather, our everyday life reveals the grace we've been given. This is why the "hope of glory" is "Christ in us": He appears through us to a world in darkness. As the children of God arise corporately, we appear as the "city on a hill": a reality in which all men are invited to dwell.

blueluna5 · Dec 1, 2023

Gideon300 said:

North Korea? Really. The evil are obviously stealing from the children of God. They do that here in America too believe it or not. We are just a lot more blessed bc our country was founded on biblical principles and nations like this are blessed.

You still mention nothing about Jesus receiving caravans of gold. I wonder why? 3 kings or 3 wise men close to the kings would no doubt have a ton of wealth.

I don't understand why Christians want Jesus to be poor. The manger was symbolic for him being the lamb of God. They had money for an inn... they had no room.

When Jesus says he had no place to lay his head... that's because he was essentially acting as a missionary. All he's saying is they are on the road a lot. If he was some poor guy he wouldn't even need to explain that. They had a money bag. He was invited to weddings. It even says he was rich.

"Though He was rich, for your sake He became poor, so that by His poverty you might become rich."

Obviously referring to when he died on the cross he become poor. They even divided his garments among the soldiers bc they were worth money.

The love of money is the root of all evil. We already know that bc people can get rich by biblical principles, but not having morals. That's why the love of money is the root of all evil. It's not saying money is evil.

God said "the gold of that land is good." Gen 2:12

God literally calls gold good and yet Christians still try to say "no no God meant spiritually blessed, not in regards to riches." Pretty sure he said gold was good.

Then we know how rich Solomon and Abraham were but people still say Jesus was poor. As if Jesus didn't understand biblical principles of wealth. He was given wealth, earned it through carpentry, and then became a teacher where rich people followed him.

Yet he didn't tell all the rich people to go away bc they're rich and therfore must love money and be evil.

blueluna5 · Dec 1, 2023

Chester said:

You still mention nothing about Jesus receiving caravans of gold. I wonder why? 3 kings or 3 wise men close to the kings would no doubt have a ton of wealth. Normal people can't just go up to a king like they did with king Herod. Only the rich could go to a king.

I don't understand why Christians want Jesus to be poor. The manger was symbolic for him being the lamb of God. They had money for an inn... they had no room.

When Jesus says he had no place to lay his head... that's because he was essentially acting as a missionary. All he's saying is they are on the road a lot. If he was some poor guy he wouldn't even need to explain that. They had a money bag. He was invited to weddings. It even says he was rich.

"Though He was rich, for your sake He became poor, so that by His poverty you might become rich."

Obviously referring to when he died on the cross he become poor. They even divided his garments among the soldiers bc they were worth money!

The love of money is the root of all evil. We already know that bc people can get rich by biblical principles, but not having morals. That's why the love of money is the root of all evil. It's not saying money is evil.

God said "the gold of that land is good." Gen 2:12

God literally calls gold good and yet Christians still try to say "no no God meant spiritually blessed, not in regards to riches." Pretty sure he said gold was good.

Then we know how rich Solomon and Abraham were but people still say Jesus was poor. As if Jesus didn't understand biblical principles of wealth. He was given wealth, earned it through carpentry, and then became a teacher where rich people followed him.

Yet he didn't tell all the rich people to go away bc they're rich and therfore must love money and be evil.

Cameron143 · Dec 1, 2023

If Jesus received caravans of gold, wouldn't He need caravans to move it from place to place?

Nehemiah6 · Dec 1, 2023

blueluna5 said:

For Christians the Abrahamic Covenant applies in two ways: (1) we are justified by grace through faith just as Abraham was: And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. (Gal 3:8,9).

(2) That the Lord Jesus Christ is the promised "seed" or descendant of Abraham: Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal 3:16)

There is a lot more that is included in the Abrahamic Covenant as applied to the twelve tribes of Israel.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 1, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Another joke?

Nehemiah6 · Dec 1, 2023

blueluna5 said:

Abraham's wealth is really not the focus of the Abrahamic Covenant. So you are off on a tangent.

Also Christ did not come to earth to become wealthy. He owns the universe. But He did come to suffer, and shed His blood, and die, and then be resurrected in order to give us the gift of eternal life (which cannot be measured in dollars and cents).

Chester · Dec 1, 2023

blueluna5 said:

North Korea? Really. The evil are obviously stealing from the children of God. They do that here in America too believe it or not. We are just a lot more blessed bc our country was founded on biblical principles and nations like this are blessed.

You still mention nothing about Jesus receiving caravans of gold. I wonder why? 3 kings or 3 wise men close to the kings would no doubt have a ton of wealth.

I don't understand why Christians want Jesus to be poor. The manger was symbolic for him being the lamb of God. They had money for an inn... they had no room.

When Jesus says he had no place to lay his head... that's because he was essentially acting as a missionary. All he's saying is they are on the road a lot. If he was some poor guy he wouldn't even need to explain that. They had a money bag. He was invited to weddings. It even says he was rich.

"Though He was rich, for your sake He became poor, so that by His poverty you might become rich."

Obviously referring to when he died on the cross he become poor. They even divided his garments among the soldiers bc they were worth money.

The love of money is the root of all evil. We already know that bc people can get rich by biblical principles, but not having morals. That's why the love of money is the root of all evil. It's not saying money is evil.

God said "the gold of that land is good." Gen 2:12

God literally calls gold good and yet Christians still try to say "no no God meant spiritually blessed, not in regards to riches." Pretty sure he said gold was good.

Then we know how rich Solomon and Abraham were but people still say Jesus was poor. As if Jesus didn't understand biblical principles of wealth. He was given wealth, earned it through carpentry, and then became a teacher where rich people followed him.

Yet he didn't tell all the rich people to go away bc they're rich and therfore must love money and be evil.

Acts 3:6 ESV
But Peter said, “I have no silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk!

Did Peter miss out on something? No, I do not think so!

Cameron143 · Dec 1, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Actually it was exaggeration. Jesus wasn't rich in material things. Part of the qualification for being Messiah was that He would suffer great humiliation. This would have included His position within humanity.

blueluna5 · Dec 1, 2023

Cameron143 said:

The humiliation was the torture and dying on the cross.

Jesus didn't suffer humiliation all his life. In fact he humiliated a lot of Pharisees in his day.

He was born a king....received from the 3 wise men. Judas bought a field for 30 pieces of silver. Gold was brought to Jesus in a caravan or multitude of camels. A caravan of camels is typically 500 and can go to 12,000. It was not just a small bag delivered. In the ancient world a king had to be rich. King Herod saw the caravan of camels carrying gold, frankincense, and myrrh.... what happens next? He kills off any child that age. When you understand Jesus was rich you understand the Bible. No king would care about a baby in stable claiming to be king. He'd be like... okay enjoy finding him.

Jesus lived in a house. The 3 wise men or kings came to Jesus at his house. Joseph was the carpenter. This would have been a high demand job. But even still.... gold was delivered to Jesus. Hello child support. I think it's funny we think at humans we give money to our kids but God doesn't.

blueluna5 · Dec 1, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

That's just apples and oranges. I never said Jesus came to earth to be wealthy. He was already wealthy in heaven. His wealth followed him here on earth. The Bible says Jesus was rich:

"Though He was rich, for your sake He became poor, so that by His poverty you might become rich."

There's an earthly and spiritual meaning to this. But if he lied about being rich it would have been called out back then. They knew he was rich and so it says so.

But obviously giving us eternal life was a greater gift.

Cameron143 · Dec 1, 2023

blueluna5 said:

I understand your position. Jesus was indeed a king; in fact, the King of kings. But He laid that aside when He became like us. I'm not against wealth. Jesus never condemns it. And you are correct; God blessed many with wealth. But riches are deceptive and the more you have, the more you want. And riches can easily distract us from their giver. Usually when someone desires wealth or defends it, they do so because they love their riches more than God. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but I believe you should be sure yourself.
And Jesus was despised and rejected of men. This wasn't just true of His death, but in life. Every part of being subject to the very creation He created was humiliation. Laying aside His glory was humiliating. Being made like us engendered humiliation. Even being a manual laborer was humiliation. And trust me, carpenters didn't make a lot of money back then.

Blik · Dec 1, 2023

Even though the Jews have been treated horribly, they have also been blessed. The world's population of Jews is only 2%, yet 59% of then have college degrees, 22% of Nobel prize winners are Jews, they average a higher IQ than those of any other race.

Part of this is because of their lifestyle. They begin memorizing scripture when they are little more than babies, as an example.

The Jewish accomplishments in all fields in so great. Now, they have been leaving the orthodox Jewish lifestyle. It will be interesting to see how this affects the Jewish race.

Magenta · Dec 1, 2023

Cameron143 said:

From a recently previous thread:

blueluna5 said:

Cameron143 · Dec 1, 2023

Magenta said:

It's a theme.

Abrahamic Covenant? God giving abundance to his people

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member