Abra Cadabra

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Hevosmies said:
But one thing you need to calculate into your argument that you left out is the "T" of TULIP.

Which is total depravity. So its not like people would want to be saved, and God wont save them. Its that they hate God and dont want to be saved.

Therefore the calvinist point would be to flip the fairness argument and say: You dont want fair, you want grace. Fair means everyone goes to hell
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No, I did not leave it out. Thats why God sent the HS. To teach us totally depraved beings and convict us of sin righteousness and judgment.

And PS. According to TULIP. Those who were made alive Hate God also. And have no desire to be saved. But God chose them and gave them an opportunity he never ffered the others. Thats no biblical love..

And of course I want grace, Apart from grace, The HS would never have been sent to convict he world of sin rightreousness and judgment, And even if people wanted to. They could never be saved Because they would be condemned.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
No, I did not leave it out. Thats why God sent the HS. To teach us totally depraved beings and convict us of sin righteousness and judgment.

And PS. According to TULIP. Those who were made alive Hate God also. And have no desire to be saved. But God chose them and gave them an opportunity he never ffered the others. Thats no biblical love..

And of course I want grace, Apart from grace, The HS would never have been sent to convict he world of sin rightreousness and judgment, And even if people wanted to. They could never be saved Because they would be condemned.
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So pervenient grace it is. Thanks
 
preacher4truth said:
It is simply apparent from Scripture that man does not decide his way into eternal life as so many on here teach. It is always brought up that we can choose other things "therefore..." which is begging the question and conflating the issue. It is declaring that we can also choose ourselves into the kingdom.

Jesus summed it up for us; "The Spirit gives life, the flesh profits nothing" John 6:63 and this in regard to eternal life and salvation so it is not out of context in my usage.

One illustration the choosers use is "Faith is just like this: When you sit in a chair, you have faith it will hold you! Same thing about getting saved, it's like sitting in a chair!" Utter nonsense!

This does a disservice to the fact faith is a gift, is not innate within man, and comes from God, Romans 10:12, 12:3, Ephesians 1:19 &c.
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Amen.....

a. Men are dealt faith by measure
b. Christ was not dealt faith by measure

Seems clear enough hey
 
Hevosmies said:
But one thing you need to calculate into your argument that you left out is the "T" of TULIP.

Which is total depravity. So its not like people would want to be saved, and God wont save them. Its that they hate God and dont want to be saved.

Therefore the calvinist point would be to flip the fairness argument and say: You dont want fair, you want grace. Fair means everyone goes to hell
Click to expand...

What you see these say is "But they wanted God, they loved God and wanted grace." This is a clear denial of Romans 3:9-20 and they are exalting themselves against God's word while telling others who know unconditional election is true, that because of this we were chosen though not due to self, that they're "special." What asininity! God never get's all the glory in their gospel!

Well well then, wonder where that desire to want grace came from? It didn't come from prevenient grace, which cannot be shown in Scripture, it came from regeneration, the dead quickened to life; Ephesians 2.

What they believe is that then they chose Christ which clinched salvation. But this is untrue as well, we are not saved via choice, we are saved by grace! It is not by choice, it is not because God saw that a person would do this or that. NO! That is not grace, that is merit! It is either solely by grace or one is lost in their sins for eternity. God is not obligated to give every human a choice or opportunity, that is merely man telling God how to run his business.

All these guys do is argue against God, tell him what they believe love is, what fair is, telling God how to be God then trying to get him off the hook for his Sovereign grace and election that he wills to show mercy to whomsoever he chooses.

It is unbelievable but there is an epidemic of this Romans 9:20ism in the church. The creature telling God what it means to be fair, just, loving. Unreal!
 
preacher4truth said:
What you see these say is "But they wanted God, they loved God and wanted grace." This is a clear denial of Romans 3:9-20 and they are exalting themselves against God's word while telling others who know unconditional election is true, that because of this we were chosen though not due to self, that they're "special." What asininity! God never get's all the glory in their gospel!

Well well then, wonder where that desire to want grace came from? It didn't come from prevenient grace, which cannot be shown in Scripture, it came from regeneration, the dead quickened to life; Ephesians 2.

What they believe is that then they chose Christ which clinched salvation. But this is untrue as well, we are not saved via choice, we are saved by grace! It is not by choice, it is not because God saw that a person would do this or that. NO! That is not grace, that is merit! It is either solely by grace or one is lost in their sins for eternity. God is not obligated to give every human a choice or opportunity, that is merely man telling God how to run his business.

All these guys do is argue against God, tell him what they believe love is, what fair is, telling God how to be God then trying to get him off the hook for his Sovereign grace and election that he wills to show mercy to whomsoever he chooses.

It is unbelievable but there is an epidemic of this Romans 9:20ism in the church. The creature telling God what it means to be fair, just, loving. Unreal!
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I see those teaching lessons I gave you are finally coming to fruition. By the way, my friend, you plagiarized me again. :eek::oops:

I do not see how you can shave, because there is no way you can look at yourself in the mirror.
 
There are some who like to live in the false view that God never gets credit in anyones gospel but their own. And all we want to do is take credit for ourselves and keep it from God

Lets take a look at this.

1. God did the work of setting up the covenants, and the promises, the nation and the bloodline, The law (tutor) which would lead the people to, and everything put in place to make the cross happen.
2. God, set aside his diety, Came to earth in humilation (born in a animal feeding apparatus) raised in humilation (a bastard child) rejected by his own people. And suffered the most painful, dehumanizing death one can imagine, Although he was without sin.
3. While on that cross, God took my sin, and paid the price I should have paid. So I could be redeemed from the curse of the law
4. God did the work of putting his word together (faith comes by hearing) and God did the work of putting the church together, Equiping teachers who can rightly divide the word and teach
5. God did the work of convicting me of my sin, He did the work of convicting me of my unrighteousness. He did the work of convicting me of the fact I am rightly judged, and the pentaly is death
6. He did the work of well over a year, talking to me. Convicting me. Getting me to look at him, the drawing of myself to him, Many a night I would pray the sinners prayer, but did not understand, or feel that anything had happened He did the work of drawing me to the front of the church so that I could have someone take me and show me first hand the gospel and explain to me what it meant. Then finally, he did the work of bringing me to my knees, where, like the tax collector, I realised I had no hope. And called on him to show mercy on me. Unable to even look up at him, because I had nothing to offer.
7. At that moment, He did the work of justifying me based on the redemptive work of Christ, He did the work of giving me his rightiousness based on imputation, He did the work of making me born again, and filling me with his spirit. He did the work of sealing me with his spirit. Giving me eternal life. And gave me all things in him.
8 Since that time, He has done the work of growing me, Chastening me when I need it, redirecting my path. Growing me, tearing down my pride and showing me to learn to live as his example. He even after I went prodigal, Once again took me to my knees in chastening because as he promised, He will leave the whole flock to go get the one lost sheep.
9 He continues the work today, He began a good work in me at Hope Baptist Church, and he continues today, and I have no doubt, he will do it until the day of redemption.

If this is taking credit from God. Then I guess the tax collector was working really realy hard and can boast of how he saved himself. Not giving God any credit. and jesus made a huge mistake when he said he went home justified.
 
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