A reasonable question
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I can see you do seem to be using characteristic traits and possibly some psychological evaluation to determine it was Satan who sinned in the Garden of eden.
If I'm wrong please say so
I know people associated the serpent to be the old serpent the dragon that was described in revelation.
But there's also many others beliefs on this matter and none of them clearly suggest that it was Satan who sinned in the Garden.
For this reason I can'take a decision either way.
I'm on the fence with this.
Because the most convincing scripture Ezekiel 28 suggests Satan never sinned in the garden.
But still ezekiel 28 doesn't say point blank it was Satan but suggests more than any other theory Ezekiel 28 was about Satan, when it comes to him being there in eden.
It suggest it more than his chararistic traits or any revalation about a serpent.
"The serpent of old" is not clear enough for you?
Satan does nothing but evil. He's been sinning from the beginning of time because his nature is sin. We should expect nothing else from him.
He was created to serve the House of God. But God chose beings, who were inferior to angelic spirits, humans, to be His heirs. Lucifer and his lot would not serve "inferior" humans so they rebelled. They then lost their station in the 3rd heaven.
Everything created was to reveal the nature of God in time and space. Everything was created through the Son. This necessitates God wanting to be known as "Father" (there is no "son" without a "father"). So, the whole purpose of creation is to host this relationship as it expands upon the earth and in all of creation.
In Genesis 1, the "beginning" means "when God began to roll out the plan for His house, His family". Everything was in place before the first sons, destined to take up the affairs of God in time and space, arrived on the scene (Adam and woman). Before they arrived, everything was in place, including the servants of the house, the angels. This included Lucifer and his lot. Lucifer sinned from this time on. "From the beginning".
ah ok that's one example of a beginning.
The beginning could also relate to the true begining for humanity is when the ten commandments where given.
Another begining for humanity could be after Noah's flood.
Noah's flood was the end of an era and start of a new beginning.
Then the ten commandment was also the start of a new chapter.
But I really mentioned the old serpent hoping you would see something
Satan is referred to an old serpent in one passage
But in the eden passage it was just a serpent, with no mention of it being old.
In another passage Jesus informs his deciples to be as wise as serpents, but what serpent would that be ?.
In terms of Satan and his sin, Satan is the original sinner and the father of sin, and the father of lies Jesus did say. Genesis 3 is what Jesus refers to and is when Satan became and did evil. What Satan is is written therein too. As well as the prophecy of the Virgin Bride birthing Jesus to slay that old dragon and the curse of God upon him which gave him the name Satan and Devil, his fate is fixed no redemption for the Devil, he dies in the end of the whole Bible just like God told him at the beginning of the Bible and gets cast to the Lake of Fire, PRAISE JESUS!
again in genesis 3 there's no mention of the old serpent.
Just a serpent.
And what serpent was Jesus telling his deciples to be as wise as a serpent ?
That does not compute.
The true beginning of humanity was a son (Adam) walking and talking with his Father (God).
To carry it further, when a man and woman (Adam and woman) walked and talked with their Father who was spirit. In this example (the woman being taken from man) the entire purpose of creation is framed. Adam was the first son of God. Woman was the first "son of God, son of man" on the earth. Their union was the original expression (in the earth) of the union between Christ and the church.
The serpent is not "old". He's the "serpent of old", as in "old times past".
Well if Genesis is the beginning of time, especially the first three chapters, and Revelation is the prophecy of the end of times when the Father's face is revealed and Satan gets destroyed, he'll be pretty old by then. Maybe he is arrogant, stupid, and ignorant and lies to himself and thinks he won't see the day, but on the day the angel Michael throws him down he'll know on that day, he'll know his time is short and that Jesus is coming back to slay him and there is nothing he can even do to prevent it now that Jesus is born to the Virgin Bride, crucified, resurrected, ascended, and foretold to return. Satan is doomed, death to Satan. PRAISE JESUS
that depends on when it was written.
Or how old satan was when he fell.
If he fell old he could not have sinned from his beginning
It's a metaphor I think the old dragon term used for satan.Well if Genesis is the beginning of time, especially the first three chapters, and Revelation is the prophecy of the end of times when the Father's face is revealed and Satan gets destroyed, he'll be pretty old by then. Maybe he is arrogant, stupid, and ignorant and lies to himself and thinks he won't see the day, but on the day the angel Michael throws him down he'll know on that day, he'll know his time is short and that Jesus is coming back to slay him and there is nothing he can even do to prevent it now that Jesus is born to the Virgin Bride, crucified, resurrected, ascended, and foretold to return. Satan is doomed, death to Satan. PRAISE JESUS
Because we could put a picture of a star in place of the dragon
Seeing as satan was referred to as morning star.
Or was it he was a morning star first befor he became the dragon.
As then we see Jesus was also a morning star.
So therefore satan could not have been a liar and a murderer from his beginning.
No yes ?.
And I'm still waiting for both of you to answer what serpent was Jesus telling his deciples to be as wise as.
It's not a metaphor because in the chapter as well as the other chapters it emphasizes and textually confirms and identifies the red dragon with the same serpent from the Garden and the names Satan and Devil, it's a positive identification within the text itself. Then going to Genesis 3 to cross reference it we find the same description as a serpent, which can also mean a dragon in ancient tongues, as well as how he got those names. Devil because that's the first sin, the Lies, and then Satan because God cursed him with Enmity with man. And also Satan's doom is woven into our salvation and the prophecy and PROMISE, ergo Word of God, to have Jesus born of the Vrign Bride to defeat the Devil's kingdom.
In terms of the Morning Star, the Morning Star is just what it is the literal morning stars in the dawntime ltieral sky that can still be observed in the sky to this day, i nespeciality the primary Mornign Star that our culture calls it Venus. The morning stars are featured directly singing in the courtyard of the heavens to God in the book of Job. The Morning Star is an epithet of the Bible (as well as Near East ancient cultures) likening to someone being bright, a herald of the dawn, intelligent, wise, etc. This epithet is applied to the King of Babylon in the book of Isaiah, likely Nebuchadnezzar, and indeed our Lord and Savior and guiding light Jesus Christ in the book of Revelation. The Morning Star additionally is one of the spiritual tools/weapons given to those that hearken and overcome Jezebel's Spirit and refuse to commit or condone fornications, adulteries, and idolatry in the letter to the Spirit of the Church of Thyatira in the book of Revelation. Praise Jesus he is the bright and morning star!
You say the serpent is the same type of serpent as the old serpent in the garden of eden.
But you still have not answered what serpent Jesus was telling his deciples to be as wise as.
Just a serpent in general of course. The serpent is the most subtle beast of the field that God created, that's all he has to him.
None of this is hypothetical, you can read the Bible for yourself, I highly encourage that because then either way the text will stand and you may know and praise Jesus!
Your not playing fair friend.
The serpent you just referred to was the same serpent that had a curse put upon its self and it's off spring.
So Jesus was telling his deciples to be as wise as a cursed serpent ?.
Congratulations friend you must surely see you can't make one scripture fit this example you've just given