A question about original sin
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yes and death to the flesh passed on to all, everyone. Each of us born with the knowledge of good and evil to choose which one to do freely. To get made alive in God's Spirit and Truth being willingly dead to the first birth here on earth
That is the amazing grace for us to see and be new in love to all or not. being of selfishness or not
Phil 3 has much to say in our choices. Which only Father in risen Son reveals as in Hebrews 6:3 or not yet
Read that from Hebrews 5:12- Chapter 6
Be willing to God to learn new not necessary from others, (yet listen) take all to Father in risen Son for you to hear truth over errors in this world we all are in. Treat others as if they are better than you, yet know, no one is better than anyone else, at least for me standing in trusting God above everything else, thanks as I see this going on in you too, thank you
God straightens each of God's children out as in Romans 14:1-4. That I see to stand in trust to God, no matter what I might think of others, God having no respect of persons, loves us all, that is the call, for me at least
Love get that imputed in us by God to us 1 Cor. 13:4-7 ask, receive and be new in love to all over the few I grew up in first birth is
I now see as false, thank you God for this love and mercy from you by Son for us all to believe and stand in as risen where new life begins in us each, by your done work once for us all to either believe it or not
That is the amazing grace for us to see and be new in love to all or not. being of selfishness or not
Phil 3 has much to say in our choices. Which only Father in risen Son reveals as in Hebrews 6:3 or not yet
Read that from Hebrews 5:12- Chapter 6
Be willing to God to learn new not necessary from others, (yet listen) take all to Father in risen Son for you to hear truth over errors in this world we all are in. Treat others as if they are better than you, yet know, no one is better than anyone else, at least for me standing in trusting God above everything else, thanks as I see this going on in you too, thank you
God straightens each of God's children out as in Romans 14:1-4. That I see to stand in trust to God, no matter what I might think of others, God having no respect of persons, loves us all, that is the call, for me at least
Love get that imputed in us by God to us 1 Cor. 13:4-7 ask, receive and be new in love to all over the few I grew up in first birth is
I now see as false, thank you God for this love and mercy from you by Son for us all to believe and stand in as risen where new life begins in us each, by your done work once for us all to either believe it or not
Unfortunately you are not getting it, Jesus never promoted himself as God only one with God, whom he went in trust to only, that be for us all in my honest thought opinion
yes, Jesus was, is good and is God, One with Father who won for us to be new too and be one with them in love to all and mercy to all as in
Authorized (King James) Version
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Living Bible
Love is very patient and kind, never jealous or envious, never boastful or proud, never haughty or selfish or rude. Love does not demand its own way. It is not irritable or touchy. It does not hold grudges and will hardly even notice when others do it wrong. It is never glad about injustice, but rejoices whenever truth wins out. If you love someone, you will be loyal to him no matter what the cost. You will always believe in him, always expect the best of him, and always stand your ground in defending him.
it is amazing to me how God continues to simply continue to love us all
Amazing
yes, Jesus was, is good and is God, One with Father who won for us to be new too and be one with them in love to all and mercy to all as in
Authorized (King James) Version
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Living Bible
Love is very patient and kind, never jealous or envious, never boastful or proud, never haughty or selfish or rude. Love does not demand its own way. It is not irritable or touchy. It does not hold grudges and will hardly even notice when others do it wrong. It is never glad about injustice, but rejoices whenever truth wins out. If you love someone, you will be loyal to him no matter what the cost. You will always believe in him, always expect the best of him, and always stand your ground in defending him.
it is amazing to me how God continues to simply continue to love us all
Amazing
.
● Mark 10:17-18 . . As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and
fell on his knees before him. Good teacher-- he asked --what must I do to
inherit eternal life? Jesus answered: Why do you call me good? No one is
good except God alone.
* Luke adds that this man was a ruler (Luke 18:18) which could've been a
political position but I rather think it was a religious position (e.g. John 3:1)
which, if so, would mean the man was a Jew; and not just a common Jew but
one that was an Old Testament expert.
Anyway, that passage is often perceived as a disclaimer, but I think there
was something going on in that incident that doesn't readily meet the eye.
If the ruler was a Jew, then his religion was based upon Moses, the
Prophets, and the Psalms. Now; in that religion, there are no good men.
● Gen 6:5 . . And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the
earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
continually.
● Isa 53:6 . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one
to his own way
● Ps 14:2-3 . . The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men,
to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all
gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth
good, no, not one.
So then, what I see in the encounter is Jesus reprimanding the ruler for
being inconsistent with his own God-given religion.
Jesus then goes on to remind him of some of its instructions.
● Luke 18:20 . .You know the commandments:
That's right; as one of the Jews' religious heavyweights, the man would've
already known the answer to his own question.
_
● Mark 10:17-18 . . As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and
fell on his knees before him. Good teacher-- he asked --what must I do to
inherit eternal life? Jesus answered: Why do you call me good? No one is
good except God alone.
* Luke adds that this man was a ruler (Luke 18:18) which could've been a
political position but I rather think it was a religious position (e.g. John 3:1)
which, if so, would mean the man was a Jew; and not just a common Jew but
one that was an Old Testament expert.
Anyway, that passage is often perceived as a disclaimer, but I think there
was something going on in that incident that doesn't readily meet the eye.
If the ruler was a Jew, then his religion was based upon Moses, the
Prophets, and the Psalms. Now; in that religion, there are no good men.
● Gen 6:5 . . And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the
earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
continually.
● Isa 53:6 . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one
to his own way
● Ps 14:2-3 . . The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men,
to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all
gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth
good, no, not one.
So then, what I see in the encounter is Jesus reprimanding the ruler for
being inconsistent with his own God-given religion.
Jesus then goes on to remind him of some of its instructions.
● Luke 18:20 . .You know the commandments:
That's right; as one of the Jews' religious heavyweights, the man would've
already known the answer to his own question.
_
Adam and Eve were created knowing God so they were created with an innocent nature in flesh.
The Old Testament says Adam created in the image of God.
The New Testament says Adam was made in the figure of Christ.
The image of God is the image of Christ which God created Adam in the image He would show up in the future an innocent nature in flesh.
God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden for He gave them a choice but it would of never entered their mind to eat of the tree unless an outside source tempted them with an alternate reality for the only reality they knew is what God told them.
So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve which she said plainly that they could not eat of the tree for that is all she think so he tempted her with an alternate reality that if they eat of the tree they would be greater than their current position so she ate of the fruit and sinned.
Then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam showing him she did not die, and no harm came to her, and he ate of the fruit and sinned.
It could not of come from Eve alone for the only reality that she could think is the reality God gave her and Adam and nothing else.
The Old Testament says Adam created in the image of God.
The New Testament says Adam was made in the figure of Christ.
The image of God is the image of Christ which God created Adam in the image He would show up in the future an innocent nature in flesh.
God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden for He gave them a choice but it would of never entered their mind to eat of the tree unless an outside source tempted them with an alternate reality for the only reality they knew is what God told them.
So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve which she said plainly that they could not eat of the tree for that is all she think so he tempted her with an alternate reality that if they eat of the tree they would be greater than their current position so she ate of the fruit and sinned.
Then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam showing him she did not die, and no harm came to her, and he ate of the fruit and sinned.
It could not of come from Eve alone for the only reality that she could think is the reality God gave her and Adam and nothing else.
I believe that we are all born sinful due to Adam & Eve's fall, but not born guilty of their (or more specifically Adam's, as he is our representative) sin. We become guilty before God once we sin based on our corrupted nature.
As for the temptation that Adam & Eve gave in to, the tree of knowledge of good & evil wasn't evil in and of itself. However, God had told them to not eat of it or else they would die. Satan lied when he told Eve that she and Adam wouldn't die and that they would become like God "knowing good and evil".
Not a direct analogy, but I'm reminded of Romans 14 in which Paul wrote that while something may not be sinful by itself, it would be a sin for someone to have it or engage in it if that person feels within him/herself that it's wrong. Such a person would be going against his/her conscience (or more likely, the Holy Spirit).
$0.02
As for the temptation that Adam & Eve gave in to, the tree of knowledge of good & evil wasn't evil in and of itself. However, God had told them to not eat of it or else they would die. Satan lied when he told Eve that she and Adam wouldn't die and that they would become like God "knowing good and evil".
Not a direct analogy, but I'm reminded of Romans 14 in which Paul wrote that while something may not be sinful by itself, it would be a sin for someone to have it or engage in it if that person feels within him/herself that it's wrong. Such a person would be going against his/her conscience (or more likely, the Holy Spirit).
$0.02
It's long but take the time to read:
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure/TUPOS of him that was to come.
I can surely see how Adam and Christ are compared, albeit as opposites...one brought in death, the other brought in life. But how exactly is Adam the "figure"/TUPOS of Him to come?
The word figure is Tupos, which means a type or similar likeness. So how exactly was Adam a type of Christ? Wasn't he really the opposite of a type of Christ? Isn't Adam actually a type of one who fell out of paradise through sin? Isn't Adam really a type of satan/lucifer?
Here is TUPOS used in various verses to demonstrate the similarity not UN-similarity.
1 Peter 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples TUPOS to the flock.
Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern TUPOS of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
1 Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example TUPOS of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
2 Thessalonians 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample TUPOS unto you to follow us.
1 Thessalonians 1:7 So that ye were ensamples TUPOS to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
Philippians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. TUPOS
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples:TUPOS and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1 Corinthians 10:6 Now these things were our examples TUPOS , to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure TUPOS of him that was to come.
So who showed an example or a type of Christ, Adam or Moses? Who's key aspects of their life resembles what Christ would do? The man who fell from grace and was kicked out of Paradise and whom brought in death? Or was it the LEADER, who led Israel out of captivity, through the wilderness TO the promised land, the same man who brought the rules regarding blood sacrifices that cleansed them?...could it be him that was a type of Christ? It's really not very difficult when It's all spelled out.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Why does it say death reigned from Adam TO Moses...as if it stopped there? "from Adam to Moses" would seem to indicate that an opportunity for life came with the giving of the law, that there might be a chance through the forgiveness of sins allowed for through the law, at life. And that is true!
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
It was difficult but not impossible. The opportunity was there through the law, through Moses.
Romans 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Exodus 29:36 And thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it.
Leviticus 4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.
Leviticus 4:21 And he shall carry forth the bullock without the camp, and burn him as he burned the first bullock: it is a sin offering for the congregation.
The new testament has a better way but eternal life was possible to achieve under the old covenant.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
"who is the figure of him that was to come"
Lets make this as clear and as plain as we can:
"whose life mirrored Christ's life in many important ways?"
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, whose life mirrored Christ's life in many important ways.
In this verse, the two being compared are compared as similars, not compared as opposites. That's what the Greek says, nothing in the grammar alters that.
"The shadow of him to come" -what that means is that someone acted in a Messiah like way in the past like a forerunner or early version of a Messiah. Who fits that better? Adam or Moses? Remember it is Christ casting a shadow of himself to the past and a shadow is definitely not a perfect representation but it should have a likeness of the caster. So, who "looks like" a Messiah between those two men?
I don't see Adam as a type of Christ. Adam sinned and was greatly punished and cast from the garden. What kind of type of Christ is that?? There is much written to distinguish the very differences between the first Adam who was flesh, and the last Adam who was spiritual. Scripture makes clear how very different the two were. Adam was the first, Christ was the last. They are opposites in what they represent. When we think of Adam it is failure, sin, death, rebellion, denial, nakedness and shame. I do not think of these things when I think of Christ.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Last
G2078
e?´s?at??
eschatos
es'-khat-os
A superlative probably from G2192 (in the sense of contiguity); farthest, final (of place or time): - ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost.
We know Jesus wasn't literally the last or "final" man/adam but the term can mean "farthest" as in the "furthest Adam". I would interpret it closer to meaning Jesus would be the farthest from what Adam was and this naturally would be in a spiritual way. Adam symbolizes the worst in us all, the fallen sinner trying to hide his sins from God, blaming others, even blaming God. God punished him with a life time of hardship ending in death. That is a far fall to take from being the man in a "paradise" who did not have to worry about dying, someone who walked with God and then lost it all in an intentional sin. Jesus would be the farthest from that kind of a man, the opposite of that kind of example. This is why Adam does not represent or figure an early type of Messiah. Nothing he did was Messiah-like in the slightest but many others have shown these similar qualities. Moses certainly did in more ways than anyone else.
Moses was the one who led Israel to the promised land, spoke for God on many occasions, wrote the law and was the chief priest basically...all things Christ would be and fulfill.
Adam is a type for all sinners who fall short, while Moses was the type for Christ (yes Moses did sin as we all do but it was the ways God used Moses that makes him the proper type)
Adam was formed innocent and sinless. He lived with God in Paradise (The Garden). He was tempted with sin and fell from God's grace, and was cast out of that Paradise and sentenced to hard labor and eventual death. In no sense is Adam ever a type of Christ. He is a type of Lucifer, first sinner, fallen creation, a rebel against God, cast from paradise, sentenced to death for his crime...it's impossible to make Adam into a type of Christ.
Is Adam a Tupos or a type of our Lord Jesus Christ? NO!
Is Adam an "ensample" of what would be found in the life of our Saviour? NO!
That's more like what happened to satan/Lucifer. Adam died for his OWN sins, Christ died for OUR sins. Adam is not a type of the Messiah, he was a type of the fallen man/soul who needed saved by the Messiah. And in that, we are all similar to Adam, all types of Adam....yet none of us are types of Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1 Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
They were baptized unto Moses because he was the type, but now we are to be baptized unto Christ.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure/TUPOS of him that was to come.
I can surely see how Adam and Christ are compared, albeit as opposites...one brought in death, the other brought in life. But how exactly is Adam the "figure"/TUPOS of Him to come?
The word figure is Tupos, which means a type or similar likeness. So how exactly was Adam a type of Christ? Wasn't he really the opposite of a type of Christ? Isn't Adam actually a type of one who fell out of paradise through sin? Isn't Adam really a type of satan/lucifer?
Here is TUPOS used in various verses to demonstrate the similarity not UN-similarity.
1 Peter 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples TUPOS to the flock.
Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern TUPOS of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
1 Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example TUPOS of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
2 Thessalonians 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample TUPOS unto you to follow us.
1 Thessalonians 1:7 So that ye were ensamples TUPOS to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
Philippians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. TUPOS
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples:TUPOS and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1 Corinthians 10:6 Now these things were our examples TUPOS , to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure TUPOS of him that was to come.
So who showed an example or a type of Christ, Adam or Moses? Who's key aspects of their life resembles what Christ would do? The man who fell from grace and was kicked out of Paradise and whom brought in death? Or was it the LEADER, who led Israel out of captivity, through the wilderness TO the promised land, the same man who brought the rules regarding blood sacrifices that cleansed them?...could it be him that was a type of Christ? It's really not very difficult when It's all spelled out.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Why does it say death reigned from Adam TO Moses...as if it stopped there? "from Adam to Moses" would seem to indicate that an opportunity for life came with the giving of the law, that there might be a chance through the forgiveness of sins allowed for through the law, at life. And that is true!
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
It was difficult but not impossible. The opportunity was there through the law, through Moses.
Romans 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Exodus 29:36 And thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it.
Leviticus 4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.
Leviticus 4:21 And he shall carry forth the bullock without the camp, and burn him as he burned the first bullock: it is a sin offering for the congregation.
The new testament has a better way but eternal life was possible to achieve under the old covenant.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
"who is the figure of him that was to come"
Lets make this as clear and as plain as we can:
"whose life mirrored Christ's life in many important ways?"
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, whose life mirrored Christ's life in many important ways.
In this verse, the two being compared are compared as similars, not compared as opposites. That's what the Greek says, nothing in the grammar alters that.
"The shadow of him to come" -what that means is that someone acted in a Messiah like way in the past like a forerunner or early version of a Messiah. Who fits that better? Adam or Moses? Remember it is Christ casting a shadow of himself to the past and a shadow is definitely not a perfect representation but it should have a likeness of the caster. So, who "looks like" a Messiah between those two men?
I don't see Adam as a type of Christ. Adam sinned and was greatly punished and cast from the garden. What kind of type of Christ is that?? There is much written to distinguish the very differences between the first Adam who was flesh, and the last Adam who was spiritual. Scripture makes clear how very different the two were. Adam was the first, Christ was the last. They are opposites in what they represent. When we think of Adam it is failure, sin, death, rebellion, denial, nakedness and shame. I do not think of these things when I think of Christ.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Last
G2078
e?´s?at??
eschatos
es'-khat-os
A superlative probably from G2192 (in the sense of contiguity); farthest, final (of place or time): - ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost.
We know Jesus wasn't literally the last or "final" man/adam but the term can mean "farthest" as in the "furthest Adam". I would interpret it closer to meaning Jesus would be the farthest from what Adam was and this naturally would be in a spiritual way. Adam symbolizes the worst in us all, the fallen sinner trying to hide his sins from God, blaming others, even blaming God. God punished him with a life time of hardship ending in death. That is a far fall to take from being the man in a "paradise" who did not have to worry about dying, someone who walked with God and then lost it all in an intentional sin. Jesus would be the farthest from that kind of a man, the opposite of that kind of example. This is why Adam does not represent or figure an early type of Messiah. Nothing he did was Messiah-like in the slightest but many others have shown these similar qualities. Moses certainly did in more ways than anyone else.
Moses was the one who led Israel to the promised land, spoke for God on many occasions, wrote the law and was the chief priest basically...all things Christ would be and fulfill.
Adam is a type for all sinners who fall short, while Moses was the type for Christ (yes Moses did sin as we all do but it was the ways God used Moses that makes him the proper type)
Adam was formed innocent and sinless. He lived with God in Paradise (The Garden). He was tempted with sin and fell from God's grace, and was cast out of that Paradise and sentenced to hard labor and eventual death. In no sense is Adam ever a type of Christ. He is a type of Lucifer, first sinner, fallen creation, a rebel against God, cast from paradise, sentenced to death for his crime...it's impossible to make Adam into a type of Christ.
Is Adam a Tupos or a type of our Lord Jesus Christ? NO!
Is Adam an "ensample" of what would be found in the life of our Saviour? NO!
That's more like what happened to satan/Lucifer. Adam died for his OWN sins, Christ died for OUR sins. Adam is not a type of the Messiah, he was a type of the fallen man/soul who needed saved by the Messiah. And in that, we are all similar to Adam, all types of Adam....yet none of us are types of Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1 Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
They were baptized unto Moses because he was the type, but now we are to be baptized unto Christ.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses
This below is a side comment on the above but does not change the focus going to Moses.
(even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression)--this is a parenthetical statement and should not distract the reader from the actual subject.
who is the figure of him that was to come. <---this speaks back to Moses.
It should be understood like this:
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses...who is the figure of him that was to come.
Or this:
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of THE ORIGINAL transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
If I said, "Jesus himself was baptised, the man who did that was John, and he was our savior and God's begotten son. Why in the world would you think "he was our savior and God's begotten son" referred to John just because his name appeared last?
Adam is never the subject here, he is only mentioned because of his sin and the death that followed, but something happened when Moses came to be that changed things in a similar way (similar as in a type, figure, TUPOS) that happened when Christ came and died for us. What Moses and what Christ accomplished affected how death affects us. If you don't get that from the verse you are missing the entire point.
4872
04872 Mosheh {mo-sheh'}
from 04871; TWOT - 1254; n pr m
AV - Moses 766; 766
Moses = "drawn"
1) the prophet and lawgiver, leader of the exodus
Moses lead Israel in the exodus out of bondage, and now Christ leads us out of the bondage of eternal death.
Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Interesting that in the eternity the song of Moses AND the song of Christ are sung. That is how important Moses was in God's plan and how closely Moses is related to Jesus. Moses was a kind of messiah to the Israelites. God spoke his words to Moses and Moses spoke the word of God to the people just as Christ would do in the NT. Moses was the OT version of the Word of God! Adam is not a kind of messiah in any sense but Moses fits the pre-mold of a messiah (a type or figure of Christ) in many many ways.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Here Paul refers to Gods law as "Moses' law"...and we all know that Christ fulfilled the law.
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Joh_5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Moses wrote of Christ!
Acts 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Moses signifies the first covenant, while Christ signifies the second.
Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Hebrews 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
Hebrews 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Again, Christ and Moses being compared.
Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Moses as well as God are saying the Messiah would be like Moses and then fast forward to the NT and we have Moses mentioned in the same sentence where *someone* had been a figure of Christ in his life.
Act_3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
"like unto me"
Moses declares that Jesus would be "like unto me" meaning Jesus would be like Moses!
Moses is saying that he is the figure of the Christ to come. It could not be easier to understand.
Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Moses was speaking of Christ and comparing himself to Christ.
Any decent commentary will support that this future prophet spoken of by Moses, who would be like Moses, was actually Christ, solidifying the Tudos between them.
John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
And lastly:
Exodus 32:30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.
Moses went to God and atoned for the sins of the people, just as Christ would do, but not on as grand of a scale.
Moses was the figure of Christ to come, not Adam.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses
This below is a side comment on the above but does not change the focus going to Moses.
(even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression)--this is a parenthetical statement and should not distract the reader from the actual subject.
who is the figure of him that was to come. <---this speaks back to Moses.
It should be understood like this:
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses...who is the figure of him that was to come.
Or this:
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of THE ORIGINAL transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
If I said, "Jesus himself was baptised, the man who did that was John, and he was our savior and God's begotten son. Why in the world would you think "he was our savior and God's begotten son" referred to John just because his name appeared last?
Adam is never the subject here, he is only mentioned because of his sin and the death that followed, but something happened when Moses came to be that changed things in a similar way (similar as in a type, figure, TUPOS) that happened when Christ came and died for us. What Moses and what Christ accomplished affected how death affects us. If you don't get that from the verse you are missing the entire point.
4872
04872 Mosheh {mo-sheh'}
from 04871; TWOT - 1254; n pr m
AV - Moses 766; 766
Moses = "drawn"
1) the prophet and lawgiver, leader of the exodus
Moses lead Israel in the exodus out of bondage, and now Christ leads us out of the bondage of eternal death.
Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Interesting that in the eternity the song of Moses AND the song of Christ are sung. That is how important Moses was in God's plan and how closely Moses is related to Jesus. Moses was a kind of messiah to the Israelites. God spoke his words to Moses and Moses spoke the word of God to the people just as Christ would do in the NT. Moses was the OT version of the Word of God! Adam is not a kind of messiah in any sense but Moses fits the pre-mold of a messiah (a type or figure of Christ) in many many ways.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Here Paul refers to Gods law as "Moses' law"...and we all know that Christ fulfilled the law.
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Joh_5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Moses wrote of Christ!
Acts 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Moses signifies the first covenant, while Christ signifies the second.
Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Hebrews 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
Hebrews 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Again, Christ and Moses being compared.
Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Moses as well as God are saying the Messiah would be like Moses and then fast forward to the NT and we have Moses mentioned in the same sentence where *someone* had been a figure of Christ in his life.
Act_3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
"like unto me"
Moses declares that Jesus would be "like unto me" meaning Jesus would be like Moses!
Moses is saying that he is the figure of the Christ to come. It could not be easier to understand.
Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Moses was speaking of Christ and comparing himself to Christ.
Any decent commentary will support that this future prophet spoken of by Moses, who would be like Moses, was actually Christ, solidifying the Tudos between them.
John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
And lastly:
Exodus 32:30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.
Moses went to God and atoned for the sins of the people, just as Christ would do, but not on as grand of a scale.
Moses was the figure of Christ to come, not Adam.
Wow that is long. OK so you're comparing Adam to Christ. Yeah I don't think Adam is a type of Christ, but I've never thought of Moses being one either. I've always seen Moses as typifying the law and Joshua as typifying Christ; same name, leading his people into promised land, whereas Moses signifying the law couldn't
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That is an astute observation and welcome insight. I just looked at your prrofile and saw you were here before as
HeRoseFromTheDead whom I do remember. Wow! You were last here in 2018. That was a long absence. Welcome back!!!
HeRoseFromTheDead whom I do remember. Wow! You were last here in 2018. That was a long absence. Welcome back!!!
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I agree with your first statement. I have been known to say that God could have simply drawn a line
in the proverbial sand and said, "Do not cross this line." However, God agreed with the assessment that
Adam and Eve had become like Him in knowing good and evil. Therefore, that was not a lie Satan told.
The lie Satan told was that they would not surely die. It is a lie that is repeated to this very day.
in the proverbial sand and said, "Do not cross this line." However, God agreed with the assessment that
Adam and Eve had become like Him in knowing good and evil. Therefore, that was not a lie Satan told.
The lie Satan told was that they would not surely die. It is a lie that is repeated to this very day.