A question about original sin

[MaryM]

What if there had been no tempter/serpent and Eve had decided totally herself to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge then leading Adam to do the same?
Knowing our sinful human nature, that is perhaps not all that farfetched a scenario, surely?
God created human beings with free will. It seems to me we barely need the devil's encouragement a lot of the time to do what we know is wrong.

 

[SonJudgment]

What if there had been no tempter/serpent and Eve had decided totally herself to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge then leading Adam to do the same?
Knowing our sinful human nature, that is perhaps not all that farfetched a scenario, surely?
God created human beings with free will. It seems to me we barely need the devil's encouragement a lot of the time to do what we know is wrong.

Eve wouldn't have eaten if Satan didn't beguile her. This is obvious by her response to his first lie where she says that God forbade them to eat from the tree or else they would die. Mankind was created originally good, so they weren't created with an inherent sinful nature. It's only after Satan lies to her that she started to think differently.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

What if there had been no tempter/serpent and Eve had decided totally herself to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge then leading Adam to do the same?
Knowing our sinful human nature, that is perhaps not all that farfetched a scenario, surely?
God created human beings with free will. It seems to me we barely need the devil's encouragement a lot of the time to do what we know is wrong.

The mechanism of TEMPTATION for you, me, Eve, Adam Jesus, and everybody else is the same you're drawn away of YOUR OWN LUST (strong personal desire).

So far EVERYTHING comes from your own desires. The extra shove is satan's contribution in the form of "ENTICEMENT" - he knows exactly where your "buttons" are, and how/when to push 'em for greatest effect.

Jesus was TEMPTED in every respect AS WE ARE, and the only thing different about HIM was that Jesus didn't allow HIS LUST to "Conceive" and give birth to sinful acts.

"Sinful nature" is nothing but "Theology". What we all have (Including Adam, and Jesus) is a HUMAN NATURE, which operates according to James 1:12-15.

 

[homwardbound]

The mechanism of TEMPTATION for you, me, Eve, Adam Jesus, and everybody else is the same you're drawn away of YOUR OWN LUST (strong personal desire).

So far EVERYTHING comes from your own desires. The extra shove is satan's contribution in the form of "ENTICEMENT" - he knows exactly where your "buttons" are, and how/when to push 'em for greatest effect.

Jesus was TEMPTED in every respect AS WE ARE, and the only thing different about HIM was that Jesus didn't allow HIS LUST to "Conceive" and give birth to sinful acts.

"Sinful nature" is nothing but "Theology". What we all have (Including Adam, and Jesus) is a HUMAN NATURE, which operates according to James 1:12-15.

thank you, appreciate this

 

[MaryM]

Eve wouldn't have eaten if Satan didn't beguile her. This is obvious by her response to his first lie where she says that God forbade them to eat from the tree or else they would die. Mankind was created originally good, so they weren't created with an inherent sinful nature. It's only after Satan lies to her that she started to think differently.

That's true.
I suppose I am trying to apply it to our lives. The question being, are we born good but become sinful and cynical only through the influence of others around us. Nature versus nurture argument.
Why did Eve decide to do the wrong thing, further, why did Adam follow her actions when he could have halted.

 

[homwardbound]

What if there had been no tempter/serpent and Eve had decided totally herself to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge then leading Adam to do the same?
Knowing our sinful human nature, that is perhaps not all that farfetched a scenario, surely?
God created human beings with free will. It seems to me we barely need the devil's encouragement a lot of the time to do what we know is wrong.

What if:
There are many What if's
What does that matter, I see this we have the cliff notes. Adam failed, The Spirit of God separated from Adam and Eve, that is done in "unbelief"
God ever since the fall, has strived in mercy love and truth for us to see clearly
"God just loves us all"
Start there, why? Because man did not get killed by God, No not at all. Got put them out of the Garden yes. To till the ground for the self, and play God. As the next cliff note is:
Genesis 3:22
Then the Lord said, “Now that the man has become as we are, knowing good from bad, what if he eats the fruit of the Tree of Life and lives forever?”

Was put out of the Garden to not eat from the Tree of Life until the proper timing
As I see Son Jesus the proper timing in the resurrection
Eat my Body, Drink my blood
thanks

 

[homwardbound]

That's true.
I suppose I am trying to apply it to our lives. The question being, are we born good but become sinful and cynical only through the influence of others around us. Nature versus nurture argument.
Why did Eve decide to do the wrong thing, further, why did Adam follow her actions when he could have halted.

Good questions, yet sin passed onto us all. Yet at first born birth we are not born sinners. Truth we are born with the knowledge of good and bad in us.
Yes we learn from the first day forward good and bad. And then we choose and become aware of and either continue in doing bad or stop it, seeing as not good for us to continue to do bad
Taking no credit for me, I stopped drinking too much as did do that from age 14-27. I saw clearly it was no good for me, it assuredly was not helping me. I agreed with God in me it was not good for me, so I left it behind me. I am 67 now. The desire is not there in me any longer since age 27, yet I have drank since and not over did it, and today not at all.
There are many other things that I have gotten rid of, seeing this freedom given me to choose. I thank God over it all in risen Son Jesus for me at least
I still need the risen Jesus to work his done work of Love and mercy through me to all, I need that daily for me at least

 

[SonJudgment]

That's true.
I suppose I am trying to apply it to our lives. The question being, are we born good but become sinful and cynical only through the influence of others around us. Nature versus nurture argument.
Why did Eve decide to do the wrong thing, further, why did Adam follow her actions when he could have halted.

We are born good. Eve didn't really decide to do evil out of her own freewill, she had to be tricked into it. Adam likewise didn't choose out of his own freewill to turn against God. It's the concept of the loss of innocence as it is called. Really it is Satan that is the ultimate evil here that really knew what he was doing in the episode, the first sinner, the father of lies, first murderer.

 

[homwardbound]

We are born good. Eve didn't really decide to do evil out of her own freewill, she had to be tricked into it. Adam likewise didn't choose out of his own freewill to turn against God. It's the concept of the loss of innocence as it is called. Really it is Satan that is the ultimate evil here that really knew what he was doing in the episode, the first sinner, the father of lies, first murderer.

I do not see we are born good, why? Because only God is good according to Jesus Matthew 19 and other scriptures saying this too in Mark and Luke
Only one is good, my Father

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I need another way, I have not been perfect anyone else?

Read Galatians, might get the answer Chapter 3

 

[Webers.Home]

Knowing our sinful human nature,

Eve didn't become infected with the so-called fallen nature till Adam tasted
his share of the forbidden fruit. That's pretty obvious because when she
tasted it, nothing happened. Eve's moral perception remained unchanged
and she went right on unashamed in the buff as usual making no attempt to
conceal her pelvic area.

FAQ: Why was Eve immune to the side effects of the forbidden fruit but not
Adam?

REPLY: It was apparently God's intention that if sin and death were to enter
the world, they would enter by means of the male's actions just as
righteousness and life would come to the world by means of a male's
actions. (Rom 5:12-21)
_

 

[Webers.Home]

why did Adam follow her actions when he could have halted.

I think Adam was at least cautious at first, and kept a wary eye on his wife
for some time waiting to see if she would get sick; and when she didn't, he
surely had to wonder if maybe he misunderstood God.

I think most husbands would sympathize with Adam. I mean: he was told by
a supposedly competent source that the forbidden tree was unfit for human
consumption. But here's your naked wife happily munching away and she's
still healthy, lucid, and exhibiting no ill side effects. How is a rational man
supposed to argue with empirical evidence as good as that?

FAQ: Their creator must've been observing that scene. Why didn't He step in
and prevent Adam from falling?

REPLY: Well; I hesitate to say it: but I rather suspect that God not only
anticipated Adam's fall; but was actually counting on it. (cf. Job 1:10-12 &
Job 2:4-7)

FAQ: Counting on it?

REPLY: Yes; because Jesus was designated, and scheduled, for the cross prior
to even one atom of the creation's construction. (1Pet 1:18-20 & Rev 13:8)
_

 

[Aaron56]

That's true.
I suppose I am trying to apply it to our lives. The question being, are we born good but become sinful and cynical only through the influence of others around us. Nature versus nurture argument.
Why did Eve decide to do the wrong thing, further, why did Adam follow her actions when he could have halted.

Yeah, Adam could have intervened. If he had, the enemy would have been driven away.

There is good Biblical evidence that babies are born innocent of sin even though the environment into which they are born is sinful. Even in the natural, long-term memories are not created until sometime around age 3 so there is no sense of one's past until about age 4.

But you are right about nature and nurture. Since the culture opposes God (and even some so-called church cultures oppose God) it is a matter of time before everyone has need of forgiveness.

 

[SonJudgment]

I do not see we are born good, why? Because only God is good according to Jesus Matthew 19 and other scriptures saying this too in Mark and Luke
Only one is good, my Father

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I need another way, I have not been perfect anyone else?

Read Galatians, might get the answer Chapter 3

When God created everything he pronounced it good, so the original state of everything is to be good. It's not until later when they commit sin and iniquity that they become evil, and for sure that will happen to everyone in the fallen world hence the neccessity of Jesus to redeem them. Couple this with Ezekiel 18 and how sin is not inherited. Though of course this will probably take us into a whole different topic which has already been pretty well plowed. Suffice to say to the OP, Satan has no excuses, be wary of any doctrine that tries to give him some excuses or let him off the hook, he is the Enemy, and he will bear the judgment God passed on him.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
● Ezek 18:20 . .The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not
share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son.
The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the
wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

FAQ: If the above is true, then how was it okay for God to make Adam's
posterity share his punishment per the forbidden fruit incident?

REPLY: The secret to this is simply timing. According to Deut 5:2-4 & Gal 3:17,
the laws of God aren't retroactive.
_

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

That's true.
I suppose I am trying to apply it to our lives. The question being, are we born good but become sinful and cynical only through the influence of others around us. Nature versus nurture argument.
Why did Eve decide to do the wrong thing, further, why did Adam follow her actions when he could have halted.

The text indicates that Adam & Eve ALREADY DESIRED (Gen 3:1)to have the "forbidden fruit" (why are they both AT THE TREE THAT THEY CAN"T EAT OF????

Having a desire for something to LOOKS GOOD IS NOT A SIN.

But then we have Satan's ENTICEMENT - i.e. God's a LIAR, you won't die, God just doesn't want you to have something that's GOOD for you!!!!!

WHy did YOU SIN the first time?? Why would EVe's decision to SIN be any different than yours??

 

[GWH]

We certainly cannot blame Satan for our sin, and I guess not our spouse either.

However, the first or original sin was not eating physical fruit, but rather choosing not to doubt the Devil, not to cooperate with God, and not asking God why the serpent contradicted what He had told them (MT 7:7). It is wise to question God.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
A side effect of the forbidden fruit incident is something called the fallen
nature; which is commonly believed inherited from one's biological father.
Oh? Then whence did Eve get it? She was constructed with material taken
from Adam's body but that was all over and done with before he tasted the
forbidden fruit; so it was too late for him to transmit the fallen nature to Eve
via heredity.

FAQ: Did she get it from the fruit?

REPLY: Eve was the first to taste the forbidden fruit. When she did, nothing
happened. Eve went right on in the buff unashamed as usual. It wasn't till
Adam tasted the fruit that she got busy covering up her pelvic area with fig
leaves.

FAQ: If Eve's altered perception of decency wasn't due to the fruit, nor due
to heredity; then from where? Did God do it?

REPLY: Mr. Serpent-- a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2) --is the logical source. He
has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human
body and the human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16,
Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:1-2.

FAQ: Why didn't the Serpent tamper with Eve when she tasted the fruit?
Why wait till Adam tasted it?

REPLY: It was apparently God's purpose that if sin and death were to come
into the world, they would come thru the actions of one man working solo
just as life and righteousness would later come into the world thru the
actions of one man working solo. (Rom 5:12-21)

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment
that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it
takes effect. Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both
immediately set to work cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to
cover up their pelvic areas.

FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people . . . in the womb or out
of the womb?

REPLY: Adam and his wife demonstrate the Serpent's ability to work on
adults, but I'm guessing he gets to most everyone else in the womb. (Ps
51:5 & ps 58:3)
_

 

[homwardbound]

When God created everything he pronounced it good, so the original state of everything is to be good. It's not until later when they commit sin and iniquity that they become evil, and for sure that will happen to everyone in the fallen world hence the neccessity of Jesus to redeem them. Couple this with Ezekiel 18 and how sin is not inherited. Though of course this will probably take us into a whole different topic which has already been pretty well plowed. Suffice to say to the OP, Satan has no excuses, be wary of any doctrine that tries to give him some excuses or let him off the hook, he is the Enemy, and he will bear the judgment God passed on him.[/QUOTE

Restored in belief of the risen Son for us, we are reckoned from God alone we are good Col 1;21-23 no one but God is actually good, Jesus said it, disciples reported it. I do not reckon me good. I reckon by God I am saved in belief Son is risen I am given new life of love and mercy to all. The same as Son gave on the cross to all. i call it the art of fighting without fighting
it is up to us to believe God and then see by not quitting belief to this love and mercy for us all. Not a few. And that does not mean all will be saved because he died once for all. Hebrews 10:10 left only one choice to believe as Adam the first did not and ate. Christ did not deny God< his Father, will we? I see you won’t and i know i won’t, as God knows who will, yet God will, does not interfere with free will given, at least that has been my experience

 

[homwardbound]

.
A side effect of the forbidden fruit incident is something called the fallen
nature; which is commonly believed inherited from one's biological father.
Oh? Then whence did Eve get it? She was constructed with material taken
from Adam's body but that was all over and done with before he tasted the
forbidden fruit; so it was too late for him to transmit the fallen nature to Eve
via heredity.

FAQ: Did she get it from the fruit?

REPLY: Eve was the first to taste the forbidden fruit. When she did, nothing
happened. Eve went right on in the buff unashamed as usual. It wasn't till
Adam tasted the fruit that she got busy covering up her pelvic area with fig
leaves.

FAQ: If Eve's altered perception of decency wasn't due to the fruit, nor due
to heredity; then from where? Did God do it?

REPLY: Mr. Serpent-- a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2) --is the logical source. He
has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human
body and the human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16,
Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:1-2.

FAQ: Why didn't the Serpent tamper with Eve when she tasted the fruit?
Why wait till Adam tasted it?

REPLY: It was apparently God's purpose that if sin and death were to come
into the world, they would come thru the actions of one man working solo
just as life and righteousness would later come into the world thru the
actions of one man working solo. (Rom 5:12-21)

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment
that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it
takes effect. Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both
immediately set to work cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to
cover up their pelvic areas.

FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people . . . in the womb or out
of the womb?

REPLY: Adam and his wife demonstrate the Serpent's ability to work on
adults, but I'm guessing he gets to most everyone else in the womb. (Ps
51:5 & ps 58:3)
_

.
A side effect of the forbidden fruit incident is something called the fallen
nature; which is commonly believed inherited from one's biological father.
Oh? Then whence did Eve get it? She was constructed with material taken
from Adam's body but that was all over and done with before he tasted the
forbidden fruit; so it was too late for him to transmit the fallen nature to Eve
via heredity.

FAQ: Did she get it from the fruit?

REPLY: Eve was the first to taste the forbidden fruit. When she did, nothing
happened. Eve went right on in the buff unashamed as usual. It wasn't till
Adam tasted the fruit that she got busy covering up her pelvic area with fig
leaves.

FAQ: If Eve's altered perception of decency wasn't due to the fruit, nor due
to heredity; then from where? Did God do it?

REPLY: Mr. Serpent-- a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2) --is the logical source. He
has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human
body and the human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16,
Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:1-2.

FAQ: Why didn't the Serpent tamper with Eve when she tasted the fruit?
Why wait till Adam tasted it?

REPLY: It was apparently God's purpose that if sin and death were to come
into the world, they would come thru the actions of one man working solo
just as life and righteousness would later come into the world thru the
actions of one man working solo. (Rom 5:12-21)

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment
that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it
takes effect. Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both
immediately set to work cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to
cover up their pelvic areas.

FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people . . . in the womb or out
of the womb?

REPLY: Adam and his wife demonstrate the Serpent's ability to work on
adults, but I'm guessing he gets to most everyone else in the womb. (Ps
51:5 & ps 58:3)
_

‘I suspect Adam doubted, being right there when she ate did not die or even get sick. Then ate and saw. Ran and hid as man has been doing that ever since. Yet all i get out of scripture are the “ cliff notes” the rest is conjectured with the maybe’s
no matter Adam the first failed, Adam the second did not fail by belief, trust to God Father in risen Son, we are now safe and see truth right from wrong and choose to harm no one on purpose at least me thanking God daily, even whenever i do wrong, i get to learn new and be grateful and see to remain glad God saves us in risen Son for us. As said in 2 Cor 12:7-10 i see to glory in my need not use it to get things, oh poor me
we are given everything we need for life and Godliness in God’s spirit and truth, the Holy Spirit.

 

[SonJudgment]

‘I suspect Adam doubted, being right there when she ate did not die or even get sick. Then ate and saw. Ran and hid as man has been doing that ever since. Yet all i get out of scripture are the “ cliff notes” the rest is conjectured with the maybe’s
no matter Adam the first failed, Adam the second did not fail by belief, trust to God Father in risen Son, we are now safe and see truth right from wrong and choose to harm no one on purpose at least me thanking God daily, even whenever i do wrong, i get to learn new and be grateful and see to remain glad God saves us in risen Son for us. As said in 2 Cor 12:7-10 i see to glory in my need not use it to get things, oh poor me
we are given everything we need for life and Godliness in God’s spirit and truth, the Holy Spirit.

I don't think Adam and Eve really knew what was happening. The fact Satan deceived the woman implies that both she and Adam didn't really know what they were doing fully. Hence the loss of innocence. Adam and Eve had a degree of innocence in the event even though they still transgressed and had to bear the consequences of that, but they also have a chance at redemption. Satan on the other hand has no degree of innocence, that's why the greater damnation belongs to him and he gets no chance for redemption.