A place for rapture questions

[LW97]

2 THES. 2 [1]Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and BY OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM, [2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION; [4] WHO OPPOSETH AND EXALTETH HIMSELF ABOVE ALL THAT IS CALLED GOD, OR THAT IS WORSHIPPED; SO THAT HE AS GOD SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHEWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD. [5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2THES.2 {a falling away} {bad guy exalts himself above all that is called God}
DANIEL 11 {many shall fall} {bad guy exalts himself above every God}

DANIEL 11 [32] And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. [33] And THEY THAT UNDERSTAND AMONG THE PEOPLE SHALL INSTRUCT MANY: YET THEY SHALL FALL by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. [34] Now WHEN THEY SHALL FALL, THEY SHALL BE HOLPEN WITH A LITTLE HELP: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. [35] And SOME OF THEM OF UNDERSTANDING SHALL FALL, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. [36] And the king shall do according to his will; and HE SHALL EXALT HIMSELF, AND MAGNIFY HIMSELF ABOVE EVERY GOD, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

verse 32, the word {covenant}={berit}. Same Hebrew word used pertaining to the covenant of the 10 commandments

So you see the falling away { 2Thes.2} in Daniel. In Daniel do you see ANYTHING that depicts a rapture? Nope! We know these scriptures are speaking of the same event as bad guy exalts himself above all Gods in both scriptures and this will happen only once. As you can plainly see its a falling away from the truth. It is not a rapture.

HOSEA 4 [3] Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away. [4] Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest. [5] Therefore shalt thou FALL IN THE DAY, and the prophet also shall FALL WITH THEE IN THE NIGHT, and I will destroy thy mother. [6] My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: SEEING THOU HAST FORGOTTEN THE LAW OF THY GOD, I WILL ALSO FORGET THY CHILDREN.

Hosea 4 points out why they are falling way from the truth. They have forgotten Gods law.

If the rapture wasn't pre trib then it was not that much of a surprise

 

[LW97]

So you cant point out even 1 scripture saying the church is the bride?

Revelation 21:9-12 (KJV)
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

You cannot claim they are not the lambs wife. The bride

true

 

[Ahwatukee]

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition 2 Thessalonians 2:3

The Greek word for "falling away" means "departure"

Hello LW97! You are correct! The word is "apostasia" translated "apostacy." Other translated words are "rebellion, revolt, departure (by implying desertion). The word comes from "ana - away from and histemi - stand, literally, "a leaving from a previous standing.

The word is used one other place which is Acts 21:21 referring to when someone was talking to Paul regarding his teaching the Gentiles to forsake the law of Moses. There are some who have tried to make this word "apostasia" using the translated word "departure" to make it mean to depart up into the air, as in the church being gathered. However, the word cannot be used in that way. If one wants to used the word departure, it has to retain the meaning of the word that it is being translated from, which could only refer to departing from ones stand in faith or religion.

 

[LW97]

Hello LW97! You are correct! The word is "apostasia" translated "apostacy." Other translated words are "rebellion, revolt, departure (by implying desertion). The word comes from "ana - away from and histemi - stand, literally, "a leaving from a previous standing.

The word is used one other place which is Acts 21:21 referring to when someone was talking to Paul regarding his teaching the Gentiles to forsake the law of Moses. There are some who have tried to make this word "apostasia" using the translated word "departure" to make it mean to depart up into the air, as in the church being gathered. However, the word cannot be used in that way. If one wants to used the word departure, it has to retain the meaning of the word that it is being translated from, which could only refer to departing from ones stand in faith or religion.

There may be disagreement about this, but the best way to explain it is, as you mentioned, leaving from a previous standing.

God bless

 

[DiscipleDave]

Trying to reason with @Ahwatukee is like arguing with a brick and mortar wall.


View attachment 183670

Sad, i happen to agree with this statement. You can't even use Scriptures to convince him otherwise. Like i keep asking him to reveal what Zechariah 14 means verse by verse, and he does not do it, Why, because if he did, he would absolutely realize what he teaches is contrary to Scriptures. He will not listen to anyone, nor even the Scriptures. Very sad indeed. We should all pray for him.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

New Heaven and New Earth are created during the 7 year Tribulation Period.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

What this generation does not understand and God did tell me, is that when Jesus Returns the 2nd time, is when the Holy City Jerusalem comes with Him, When Jesus Returns to the Earth He is going to be bringing that place He has prepared for us. Zechariah 14 speaks of this.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

During the first 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation Period the Earth will burn, the process of the New Earth and New Atmosphere will have begun.

All sin must be purged with fire, and this heaven, and earth has been tainted with sin, and must pass away, and it is physical, where the new heaven and earth is spiritual, which is why there is no more sea.

The New Heaven and New Earth is exactly that. The Earth we have now and the Atmosphere we have now, will be utterly destroyed, and God will create a New Earth and a New Atmosphere (Heaven). This process is fully accomplished during the 7 year Tribulation Period. During the middle of the New Earth and New Heaven being created. Jesus will return with the Holy City Jerusalem and start setting up His reign on Earth. By the end of the 7 year Tribulation Period, the Earth, the Atmosphere, the wicked, and sin, will be fully purged, and the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ, ON EARTH will Truly begin.

Jesus went away from the earth to prepare a place for the saints, the New Jerusalem, and that is where the saints shall be for eternity.

Amen, and Rev 21 plainly teaches the New Jerusalem will be ON EARTH

The New Jerusalem is a place where sin has never been, and sin will never be, and sin and rebellion will never come up again, and the old heaven and earth shall not be remembered, nor come to mind, for they are associated with sin and rebellion, and to know of the old heaven and earth they would know about sin and rebellion.

When the saints and angels are at the New Jerusalem they will remember nothing prior to that, not even their family, and friends, and they will feel as if they have always been there and nowhere else.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Amen.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

So according to Scriptures, the Lord Jesus will be ONE EARTH in the Holy City at a time when evil sinners, heathens are still present, these will have to come up and serve Jesus year to year.

Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. (Isa 60:12)

So the Lord is On Earth, reigning over all the Kingdoms out of the Holy City during a time when heathens are still present and alive on Earth. (Zech 14) [ side note :This is something Ahwatukee can't explain, because it does not line up with what he teaches. Ahwatukee change what you believe to line up with Scriptures or will you continue to change Scriptures to line up with what you teach?]

Jesus had to fulfill the law, and all the positions in Israel, which He is the perfect King, High Priest, Prophet, Saint, temple, sacrifice, and whatever else He had to fulfill.

But He has not fulfilled the role of King on earth yet, for He came as a humble servant, and not to rule, and that is what the millennial reign on earth is about, and why the kingdom on earth will be restored to Israel.

Amen, this is TRUE.

When the 1000 years is over Jesus had fulfilled the law and heaven and earth shall pass away, and there will be a new heaven, and a new earth, the New Jerusalem.

The Holy City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven WITH JESUS at His Second coming to the Earth. Jesus and us Saints will reign over the Earth DURING that thousand years, and we do that out of the Holy City Jerusalem that is ON EARTH during that thousand year reign on Earth.

Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

We don't reign over the Earth for a thousand years out of Heaven, we reign over the Earth for a thousand years ON EARTH. The teaching that the Holy City comes down AFTER the thousand years is NOT SCRIPTURAL, it is what men teach and is not from God. Can anyone show one verse which teaches the Holy City comes AFTER the thousand years? NO, so where does that teaching come from? MEN!

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

I guess another good question for the Rapturist is why the last trumpet aint really the last trumpet

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] BEHOLD, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

Amen, This is True, Scriptures are TRUE.

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period.

That is NOT what it says, it merely says AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS. Does not say AFTER the Tribulation Period, does it?

No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. Yes, the trumpet blown in Matt.24 is the last trumpet of 1Cor.15

You are in error because you interpret "After the Tribulation of those days" To mean the entire Tribulation Period. Which is a wrong interpretation of Scriptures. "Those days" ONLY refers to those days that Jesus just got done describing, NOT the whole entire Tribulation Period. That is why He was clear in saying "THOSE DAYS" and did NOT refer to the entire Tribulation Period.

Here is what God revealed to me is going to happen (not all of it, but most of it). click HERE to see image of Timeline.

7 Seals are broken:
6 Trumpets are blown:
7th Trumpet blown. Jesus Returns to Earth with Holy City Jerusalem, sets up His Kingdom ON Earth (Zech 14)
7 vial/bowls are poured out to wipe remaining wicked off Earth.

{7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, 7 vials} = 7 Year Tribulation Period
Jesus Christ Returns to Earth, Raptures all Saints (sleeping and alive) during the last Trumpet sounding (7th Trumpet)

ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O ye children of Israel.[13] And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

Zechariah 14:16 says that too

The GREAT trumpet {also found in Matt.24} shall be blown. His people gathered. Its off to Jerusalem. To the kingdom. Not headin for heaven

Heading to Heaven is a doctrine of men, and is NOT what Scriptures teach.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Your quotation is predictably out of context. Firstly who are we to meet in the air? According to Paul its those who had fallen asleep,(died) who Christ brings with him at the second coming. Meeting the Lord and them in the air and forever being with the Lord does not specify that we are going to be taken to heaven for seven years, or three and a half as some believe. What passes as Gods truth to you and others is your interpretation imposed on text There is a term for the practice Its called Eisegesis. Its a common practice used by cults.

I quoted Peter in Acts. He made a plain statement about Jesus remaining in heaven You have provided no answer to my questions. Probably because it doesn't suit your '' theology ''

It is a doctrine of men that teaches that we are Raptured and go to Heaven. That is NOT what Scriptures teach at all. What this generation fails to understand, nor will they hear it from a man who says God told him, that when Jesus Returns to the Earth He will have the Holy City Jerusalem with Him. Jesus and we Saints will reign out of the Holy City, over the entire Earth, and we Saints will be with Him, where He is, and He is in the Holy City Jerusalem that comes down OUT OF HEAVEN to the Earth, and we will be with Him forever in the HOLY City Jerusalem, which is ON EARTH, NOT in Heaven as it is today.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

This is the promise:
'My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."

* The Father's house is Heaven

The Father's house comes down to Earth. Therefore when the Saints are Raptured, they go to where the Father is, and that is in the Holy City Jerusalem which is ON EARTH.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The Father's House comes down out of Heaven to the Earth. The error you are making is that you think the Holy City comes down AFTER the 1,000 years, AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment. You think the Holy City comes down to Earth when there are no sinners present on Earth, which is contrary to Zechariah 14, which says the Lord Jesus reigns on Earth, with the Holy City, during a time when Heathens are still present ON THE EARTH, and have not been judged yet, because they are still present during the reign of Jesus Christ ON EARTH. Either you are right or Scriptures are right, BOTH are NOT RIGHT.

* Jesus went to the Father's house to prepare places for us

Amen, this is currently happening in Heaven. When the Holy City is prepared and ready, it will come back with Jesus the 2nd time, and we Saints are taken up to be with Jesus where He is, and He is ON EARTH, in the Holy City Jerusalem, which is ON EARTH.

* He's coming back to take us to be with him that we may also be where He is, in the Father's house

Amen, and Amen. Which is ON EARTH.

Below is the event when He comes to get the church:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Therefore, since the church is not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then the above event must take place prior to said wrath.

Says who? Scriptures does not teach that, you do. True Christians are not appointed to wrath, does NOT mean they are taken up prior to that wrath, as you are teaching. What we can't be protected during the time of the wrath? Did God protect the Israelites when Egypt was suffering the wrath of God? Did the Israelites appointed to wrath? Or were they protected from it because they too were not appointed to suffer the wrath of God? You do error in thinking just because we are not appointed to wrath means that we MUST be taken prior to that wrath, that is an error of your thinking, and then you go and teach men this error in thinking. Here is a TRUTH:

Just because we are not appointed to wrath, DOES NOT MEAN we won't see it happening all around us. You do error thinking we are taken up prior to that wrath because we are not appointed to wrath, that is your opinion, and it is wrong.

It is always a matter of cross-referencing and comparing scripture in order to arrive a right conclusion. In this case it is just a simple deduction:

God's wrath is coming = church is not appointed suffer wrath = church must be remove prior to said wrath

Tell me, what cross-reference verses or what comparing Scriptures did you use to deduce the Church MUST be removed prior to said wrath? lol. It is your opinion that that the Church MUST be removed prior to said wrath. No amount of cross-referencing or comparing Scriptures teaches what you are saying here, it is your opinion, and has nothing to do with cross-referencing or comparing Scriptures. You only say that, to try to make your opinion more valid.

According to Jesus, those days of wrath will be the worst that the earth has ever seen in any time of history. And that if they were they were allowed to go on any longer no one would be left alive on the earth.

Please notice and understand, when Jesus finally comes, it will be at a point that if He did not come, ALL FLESH would perish on the Earth. So then Jesus gets the Church at a point, when Every singly human on the planet is about to die. So then up to that point, the CHURCH is still there isn't it? They are NOT taken prior to the point that all life on the planet will die.

By the time Jesus returns, the cities of all the nations will have collapsed as a result of that greatest earthquake via the 7th bowl, the islands and mountains will be gone, the oceans and fresh water will all be turned into literal blood and there will only be 10% or less of the earths population left, if even that much.

This statement of yours indicates that you are post trib. That you believe Jesus is going to come AFTER the 7th vial, is that correct. Brother you are one contrary dude to follow with what you believe. Don't you teach that the Church is taken prior to any wrath, because we are not appointed to wrath, then you say above by the time Jesus returns will be AFTER the 7th bowl. Brother, you are all over the place. Can you believe pre-trib and post-trib all at the same time? So which is it? Does Jesus come prior to the wrath or after the 7th bowl. Both can't be correct.

The event of the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth are two separate events.

lol. As if Jesus gathering the church does not require Him to Return to the Earth. So let me see if i understand what you are teaching. Jesus Returns to the Earth a 2nd time and gathers the Church, takes them to Heaven, then He Returns to the Earth a third time after the 7th bowl like you say above, and takes off again, and then comes back a fourth time After the 1,000 years and the Great White Throne Judgement? All over the place.

When reading scripture, one needs to be able to discern which event is being spoken about.

and NOT ADD their own interpretations to what they are reading. Interpretations belong to GOD NOT to men.

Obviously, the scripture that you provided above is referring to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom. Where at the gathering of the church, Jesus is not returning to the earth, but to resurrect the dead and to change and call up the living to remove us prior to God's wrath. Two different events with different purposes.

Says Ahwatukee, NOT Scriptures.

Again, when the church is gathered the Lord is not returning to the earth,

Explain to us all, how Jesus gathering the Church not required Him to return to the Earth? Do you even hear what you are saying?

Again, when the church is gathered the Lord is not returning to the earth, but is descending to the atmosphere to gather His church to meet Him in the air.

Which is on Earth right?

continued next post:

 

[DiscipleDave]

continued:

Where at which time He will take the entire church back to the Father's house.

Amen. At the Rapture, when Jesus gathers up the Church, we all go to the Holy City Jerusalem where the Father is, which is the Father's House. The problem is YOU teach that it is still in Heaven during that time, and has not come down to Earth.

Jesus comes to gather Church then goes back to Heaven: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?
Jesus comes back a third time: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?
When we are Raptured we go to the Father's House THAT IS STILL IN HEAVEN: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?
We are not appointed to wrath, we MUST be taken prior to said wrath: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?
Holy City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven AFTER the millennium: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?
Holy City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven AFTER the White Throne Judgment: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?
When you die, you immediately go to Heaven: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?

Seriously please show the verses that you used to cross-referenced those things above. Because i believe they are all your opinions and not based on Scriptures at all. If i am wrong then please show the verses that you used to base what your opinions are. Thanks.

You are being to rigid in that because of that scripture that you cite, that the Lord isn't able to leave His seat. As I said and as scripture supports, the gathering of the church is a separate event from the Lord return to the earth to end the age.

lol, lol, lol, Scriptures supports! yet we see so no Scriptures to support it. It is your opinion, and your opinion alone that supports they are separate events. They have to be separate events so as to line up with what you pass off as TRUTH. Love you Brother, i really do, and i will pray for you, as i hope you will do for me as well. Please start a thread concerning these two events and your Scriptures that supports it, that should be very interesting indeed.

The return of Christ for the church has always been imminent, i.e. about to happen, looming, on the horizon, etc. Jesus described His return for the church as being like a thief in the night and therefore to always be watching and ready. Because the Lord's return was imminent, they were motivated to spread the gospel. If Jesus would have said to His disciples "Relax guy's because I'm not coming to get you for another 2000 years," then there would have been no urgency to spread the gospel.

Amen, this is so TRUE.

Always keep in mind that, the Lord is not physically returning to the earth when He gathers the church, as 1 Thes.4:16 states that we will descend to the air and call us up.

Yes, during the Rapture, the gathering of the Church, He does that by air, He does not travel on foot to gather the Church. He will gather the Church by traveling in the Atmosphere around the entire planet, first pass to gather all the dead in Christ, all those sleeping spirits, second pass to gather all the living True Christians.

And John 14:1-3 says that He is going to take us back to the Father's house.

Amen, When Jesus gathers the Church in the air, and gathers the dead and then the living, we all go to the Holy City Jerusalem which will be located over where Jerusalem is today, and there is where we will forever be with the Lord in the Father's House. See Zech 14 to see who Jesus and us Saints reign over out of the Holy City located over where Jerusalem is now. Still waiting for you to explain to me verse by verse Zech 14, why are you so silent? why are you not explaining it?

Therefore, you have Jesus appearing the first time in the flesh to live a perfect life, paying the penalty for our sins. Then, after God's wrath has been poured out at the end of that seven years, Jesus will return again physically and visually to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. That would equal 2 times, with the gathering of the church being a completely separate event.

That is 100% contrary to Scriptures. Can you guess which Scriptures i am going to bring up again? You got it. Zechariah 14.

You say above that Jesus comes back a third time at the end of the 7 year tribulation period to establish His millennial Kingdom. How so? And from where does He do that? He comes back a third time, does He bring at that time the Holy City Jerusalem to Earth or do you think he comes back a third time after the 7 year Tribulation Period and then takes off yet again. Only to come back a fourth time when He comes yet again After the millennium Period with the Holy City.
Can't you see, your teaching does not line up with Scriptures? You are adding so many things which are your opinions and then trying to teach the sheep as if they are TRUTH. You don't think that is ungodly?

Again, please explain to me Zechariah 14 and how it fits into your false doctrine? Thanks.

If what you teach contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you teach is wrong. What you teach concerning end time events is contrary to Zechariah Chapter 14, therefore what you teach is wrong. Brother change what you believe to line up with ALL of Scriptures, if you don't there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for all those who teach false doctrines.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Wall]

Here is what God revealed to me.........

Could ya answer me one question DD? Did God reveal to ya that you are to keep His sabbath day? A yes or no would be nice.

 

[Nehemiah6]

At the Rapture, when Jesus gathers up the Church, we all go to the Holy City Jerusalem where the Father is, which is the Father's House. The problem is YOU teach that it is still in Heaven during that time, and has not come down to Earth.

The New Jerusalem only descends out of Heaven -- not to the earth -- AFTER the New Heaven and the New Earth are established. The Rapture occurs long before that. So evidently you are quite confused about the sequence of events, or even the ultimate placement of the New Jerusalem. It becomes a heavenly body in order to give light to the earth.

 

[Noose]

continued:



Amen. At the Rapture, when Jesus gathers up the Church, we all go to the Holy City Jerusalem where the Father is, which is the Father's House. The problem is YOU teach that it is still in Heaven during that time, and has not come down to Earth.

Jesus comes to gather Church then goes back to Heaven: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?
Jesus comes back a third time: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?
When we are Raptured we go to the Father's House THAT IS STILL IN HEAVEN: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?
We are not appointed to wrath, we MUST be taken prior to said wrath: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?
Holy City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven AFTER the millennium: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?
Holy City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven AFTER the White Throne Judgment: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?
When you die, you immediately go to Heaven: Scriptures please or is that your opinion?

Seriously please show the verses that you used to cross-referenced those things above. Because i believe they are all your opinions and not based on Scriptures at all. If i am wrong then please show the verses that you used to base what your opinions are. Thanks.



lol, lol, lol, Scriptures supports! yet we see so no Scriptures to support it. It is your opinion, and your opinion alone that supports they are separate events. They have to be separate events so as to line up with what you pass off as TRUTH. Love you Brother, i really do, and i will pray for you, as i hope you will do for me as well. Please start a thread concerning these two events and your Scriptures that supports it, that should be very interesting indeed.



Amen, this is so TRUE.



Yes, during the Rapture, the gathering of the Church, He does that by air, He does not travel on foot to gather the Church. He will gather the Church by traveling in the Atmosphere around the entire planet, first pass to gather all the dead in Christ, all those sleeping spirits, second pass to gather all the living True Christians.



Amen, When Jesus gathers the Church in the air, and gathers the dead and then the living, we all go to the Holy City Jerusalem which will be located over where Jerusalem is today, and there is where we will forever be with the Lord in the Father's House. See Zech 14 to see who Jesus and us Saints reign over out of the Holy City located over where Jerusalem is now. Still waiting for you to explain to me verse by verse Zech 14, why are you so silent? why are you not explaining it?



That is 100% contrary to Scriptures. Can you guess which Scriptures i am going to bring up again? You got it. Zechariah 14.

You say above that Jesus comes back a third time at the end of the 7 year tribulation period to establish His millennial Kingdom. How so? And from where does He do that? He comes back a third time, does He bring at that time the Holy City Jerusalem to Earth or do you think he comes back a third time after the 7 year Tribulation Period and then takes off yet again. Only to come back a fourth time when He comes yet again After the millennium Period with the Holy City.
Can't you see, your teaching does not line up with Scriptures? You are adding so many things which are your opinions and then trying to teach the sheep as if they are TRUTH. You don't think that is ungodly?

Again, please explain to me Zechariah 14 and how it fits into your false doctrine? Thanks.

If what you teach contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you teach is wrong. What you teach concerning end time events is contrary to Zechariah Chapter 14, therefore what you teach is wrong. Brother change what you believe to line up with ALL of Scriptures, if you don't there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for all those who teach false doctrines.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

You said God showed you these things but they sound like things that God has nothing to do with. Jesus is not going to carry a city around and the new Jerusalem is nothing but people who will always be on earth. There's never going to be a 7 year anything, tribulation is now.
If you are to understand anything, you need to go back to Daniel. Daniel has a timeline for you.

 

[Wall]

That is NOT what it says, it merely says AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS. Does not say AFTER the Tribulation Period, does it?

Sure does. Twice

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light

MARK 13 [24] But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened

You need not tell me about the sabbath now. I know

 

[Wall]

I guess another good question for the Rapturist is why the last trumpet aint really the last trumpet

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] BEHOLD, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. Yes, the trumpet blown in Matt.24 is the last trumpet of 1Cor.15

ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O ye children of Israel.[13] And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

The GREAT trumpet {also found in Matt.24} shall be blown. His people gathered. Its off to Jerusalem. To the kingdom. Not headin for heaven

So why do you Rapturist claim the last trumpet aint really the last trumpet

So when is the LAST trumpet to be blown? Its a MYSTERY!

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

MYSTERY—last trumpet {it shall sound} – The LAST one! – No more trumpets to be blown – Its the LAST trumpet!

REVELATION 8 [1] And when he had opened THE SEVENTH SEAL, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. [2] And I saw the SEVEN ANGELS which stood before God; and to them were given SEVEN TRUMPETS.

Seventh angel has a trumpet. It shall sound. Its also the LAST one to be heard. Its also AFTER the trib period

REVELATION 10 [6] And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: [7] But in the days of the voice of THE SEVENTH ANGEL, when he shall begin to sound, THE MYSTERY OF GOD SHOULD BE FINISHED, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

MYSTERY SOLVED! The seventh angel begins to sound. This is the actual LAST trumpet you find being blown in the bible

REVELATION 16 [17] And the SEVENTH ANGEL poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, IT IS DONE.

REVELATION 11 [14] The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. [15]And THE SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

As i said before, we do not flit off to heaven at the 1Cor.15 event. As the seventh angel sounds the trumpet the kingdoms of this world are to become the kingdoms of the Lord and thats where the Lord will bring us after meeting Him in the air. His kingdom, right here on Gods green earth

 

[Angela53510]

Matthew 3:2 (ESV) “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
Matthew 3:17 (ESV) and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
Matthew 4:17 (ESV)
From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
Matthew 5:3 (ESV) “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:10 (ESV) “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:12 (ESV) Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matthew 5:16 (ESV) In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 5:19 (ESV) Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20 (ESV) For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:45 (ESV) so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Matthew 6:1 (ESV) “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 6:9 (ESV) Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.
Matthew 6:10 (ESV) Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Matthew 6:20 (ESV) but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
Matthew 7:11 (ESV) If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
Matthew 7:21 (ESV) “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 8:11 (ESV) I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven,
Matthew 10:7 (ESV) And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
Matthew 10:32 (ESV) So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven,
Matthew 10:33 (ESV) but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 11:11 (ESV) Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matthew 11:12 (ESV) From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force.
Matthew 11:25 (ESV) At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;
Matthew 12:50 (ESV) For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
Matthew 13:11 (ESV) And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
Matthew 13:24 (ESV)He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field,
Matthew 13:31 (ESV) He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field.
Matthew 13:33 (ESV) He told them another parable. “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of flour, till it was all leavened.”
Matthew 13:44 (ESV) “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.
Matthew 13:45 (ESV) ”Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls,
Matthew 13:47 (ESV) ”Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind.
Matthew 13:52 (ESV) And he said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house, who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old.”
Matthew 16:17 (ESV) And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 16:19 (ESV) I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Matthew 18:1 (ESV) At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
Matthew 18:3 (ESV) and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:4 (ESV) Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:10 (ESV) “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 18:14 (ESV) So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
Matthew 18:18 (ESV) Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 18:19 (ESV) Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.
Matthew 18:23 (ESV) “Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants.
Matthew 19:12 (ESV) For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”
Matthew 19:14 (ESV) but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 19:21 (ESV) Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
Matthew 19:23 (ESV)
And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 20:1 (ESV) “For the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.
Matthew 21:25 (ESV)
The baptism of John, from where did it come? From heaven or from man?” And they discussed it among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’
Matthew 22:2 (ESV) “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son,
Matthew 23:13 (ESV) But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.
Matthew 25:1 (ESV)
“Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom.
Matthew 28:18 (ESV)
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Just a guess, but I'd say we're going to Heaven.

Don't be too sure. The Kingdom of heaven is a Jewish euphemism for the Kingdom of God. Matthew was addressing Jews, and Jews never say the word God, although sometimes the write G-D.

Note all your references are from Matthew. Look up parallel verses in Mark and Luke, and you will be surprised to realize, most of the time, those writers said “Kingdom of God” in the exact same passage!

 

[garee]

So when is the LAST trumpet to be blown? Its a MYSTERY!

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

MYSTERY—last trumpet {it shall sound} – The LAST one! – No more trumpets to be blown – Its the LAST trumpet!

REVELATION 8 [1] And when he had opened THE SEVENTH SEAL, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. [2] And I saw the SEVEN ANGELS which stood before God; and to them were given SEVEN TRUMPETS.

Seventh angel has a trumpet. It shall sound. Its also the LAST one to be heard. Its also AFTER the trib period

REVELATION 10 [6] And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: [7] But in the days of the voice of THE SEVENTH ANGEL, when he shall begin to sound, THE MYSTERY OF GOD SHOULD BE FINISHED, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

MYSTERY SOLVED! The seventh angel begins to sound. This is the actual LAST trumpet you find being blown in the bible

REVELATION 16 [17] And the SEVENTH ANGEL poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, IT IS DONE.

REVELATION 11 [14] The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. [15]And THE SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

As i said before, we do not flit off to heaven at the 1Cor.15 event. As the seventh angel sounds the trumpet the kingdoms of this world are to become the kingdoms of the Lord and thats where the Lord will bring us after meeting Him in the air. His kingdom, right here on Gods green earth

Right here on this dying green corrupted earth? Or a completely newly created heaven and earth not made of the rudiments of this corrupted creation? Will the corrupted inherit the incorruptible ? What kind of bodies will the bride of Christ have?

 

[DiscipleDave]

The New Jerusalem only descends out of Heaven -- not to the earth -- AFTER the New Heaven and the New Earth are established.

Holy City descends (Comes DOWN) out of Heaven. you say "not to the Earth" So then tell me, when the Holy City descends, comes down from Heaven, where do you think it goes, if not to Earth?

The New Jerusalem only descends out of Heaven -- not to the earth -- AFTER the New Heaven and the New Earth are established. The Rapture occurs long before that.

Where does Scriptures teach that the Holy City descends out of Haven AFTER the New Heaven and New Earth are established? This is your opinion and is not what Scriptures teach. The Apostle John saw the Holy City descending out of Heaven to the Earth DURING a time that He saw a New Heaven and New Earth. That is Scriptural, You teaching that it is AFTER a New Heaven and New Earth is created is your opinion

So evidently you are quite confused about the sequence of events, or even the ultimate placement of the New Jerusalem. It becomes a heavenly body in order to give light to the earth.

i will continue to believe what God told me is going to happen. And nothing i say that He told me is contrary to any Scriptures. You are confused if you think that that the Holy City gives light to the Earth, which thing is again your opinion and not what Scriptures teach. Scriptures teach that the Holy City gives light to the Saints that are inside of the Holy City. You teach that the Holy City gives light to the World, this Scriptures does not teach. Know you not that Scriptures teach, that day and night will not cease?

Gen_8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Do you believe the Word of God? If then Day and night will NEVER cease as Scriptures plainly teaches, Then why do you teach that the Holy City gives light to the World? Which Scriptures does NOT teach. Who is confused? The Holy City gives light to those who live inside it, the Saints.


^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

You said God showed you these things

You do error in not understanding what i actually said. i never said God showed me those particular things, but clearly and plainly said "God TOLD me those things" There is a difference.

but they sound like things that God has nothing to do with.

Sorry, i have no clue as to what you are referring to here. God told me what is going to happen in the future, How is that nothing to do with God?

Jesus is not going to carry a city around

Again, you have ears but are not hearing, you have eyes but do not see. Who told you that i said Jesus carries around the City? i never said that, so who is whispering to you that i did? Would it not be wise if you are going to respond to someone and what they said to make sure you are responding to something they actually said, and not something that you think they said? i plainly teach the Holy City descends out of Heaven and lands where Jerusalem is currently at. Jesus will go around the World raising the dead Saints, Then Jesus and the Saints will go around the World and gather the living saints to be with Him where He is, and that is, in the Holy City Jerusalem which will have landed over present day Jerusalem. All of you may not believe this now, but all of you will believe it when you see it happening EXACTLY as God told me it is going to happen.

and the new Jerusalem is nothing but people who will always be on earth.

That teaching is contrary to Scriptures. Scriptures teach the Holy City comes down out of Heaven (Rev 21) Jesus plainly taught us in His Word that He is going to go prepare a PLACE for us.

There's never going to be a 7 year anything,

Study Daniels 70th week ( a week being 7 years)

tribulation is now.

lol

If you are to understand anything, you need to go back to Daniel. Daniel has a timeline for you.

i understand Daniel, what part do you think i don't understand?


^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said:

That is NOT what it says, it merely says AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS. Does not say AFTER the Tribulation Period, does it?

Sure does. Twice

Are you yet not understanding that it does not say After the Tribulation PERIOD? You teach that it happens AFTER the Tribulation PERIOD while Scriptures plainly and clearly teaches it happens after the tribulation OF THOSE DAYS. NOT the entire Tribulation Period. lol , then you give the following verses to support your believe that it happens AFTER the Tribulation PERIOD, with verses which plainly teach it happens AFTER those days, and not after the Entire Tribulation Period, But only after the tribulation of those days which where just described.

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light

MARK 13 [24] But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened

You need not tell me about the sabbath now. I know

Since you did not quote what you are referring to here, i have no clue as to what you are referring to Are we talking about the Tribulation Period or the Sabbath?


^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave