A Divided Church?
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Constantine created the State Church that is now Roman Catholicism
He donated the land and built St. Peter's Basilica,what is now Vatican City.
The Early Church had nothing to do with Constatine.
A prime example is the 1st Nicene Council in 321AD, 1800 bishops were invited by Constatine, all expenses for travel and accommodations, only 318 showed up.
Constatine and his High Priest Eusebius persecuted the early Church.
You cannot rightly accuse of apostasy those who have never made the claim of faith. People who were never saved in the first place aren't apostates.
This is not a KJV-only discussion. There are very good reasons why those verses are not included in the text of the NIV, and those reasons do not include deception.
Revelation 22:19KJV
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
It's that old Beezlebub that hates truth and will do whatever to confuse and separate the sheep.
Always be a Berean.......seach the scriptures to see if what we are told is true to the WORD.
The Bereans did this and God commended them for it.
On the other hand, its not a bad thing to be separate from the goats.
Always be a Berean.......seach the scriptures to see if what we are told is true to the WORD.
The Bereans did this and God commended them for it.
On the other hand, its not a bad thing to be separate from the goats.
I repeat: this is not a KJV-only discussion. If you want to discuss that topic, start another thread. I'll happily refute your ignorance, but not here.
I suggest if someone wants the real answer to the question of a divided church they should live outside of their bubble. Move to a different country. Living at home in America leads us to see things one way there. Move abroad and witness what people believe and say as people of your faith. Watch how they behave toward one another and those not in that faith.
Divided? I think the church has divided itself since Jesus left the earth.
Think about what your tradition tells everyone in the world. You are the favorite of the only God that exists. And to be with that God forever you have to believe this and that. But you all can't even agree on the particulars of the this and that.
The faith was divided even when Jesus was here. He was a Jew bringing the prophecy to life to the Jews. Some believed and followed him all their lives. Some were martyred for that. Others said, no you're a liar and should die. Others agreed and begged Rome to kill him.
Divided?
Divided? I think the church has divided itself since Jesus left the earth.
Think about what your tradition tells everyone in the world. You are the favorite of the only God that exists. And to be with that God forever you have to believe this and that. But you all can't even agree on the particulars of the this and that.
The faith was divided even when Jesus was here. He was a Jew bringing the prophecy to life to the Jews. Some believed and followed him all their lives. Some were martyred for that. Others said, no you're a liar and should die. Others agreed and begged Rome to kill him.
Divided?
As much as I myself love kjv and would not like to muck about with any scripture, this verse refers to the book of revelation. The bible as we know it had not been compiled and is not exclusively a “book of prophecy”. Revelation is talking about itself in the scripture you quoted.
B
Blackpowderduelist
Guest
There is so much here it is hard to answer. It's almost as if the reformation was a bad idea. I don't think so because there are some who hold to the faith, to the scripture, and to the teachings of 1st, 2nd and 3rd century church founders. We have their writings, letters, sermons, and written prayers. They aren't scripture, but are insight.
To bad zwingli, Calvin, and Henry the 8th used the momentum that Luther gained on the heels of Jan Huss, and brought in heterodoxy.
To bad zwingli, Calvin, and Henry the 8th used the momentum that Luther gained on the heels of Jan Huss, and brought in heterodoxy.
It is a bit early on this (Sunday) morning to come to grips with these thoughtful responses. In the meantime, I will throw a few more of my own thoughts into the melting pot.
As we look into the history of the church, we can see a spiritual decline from the New Testament church into the gross darkness of the middle ages. With the Reformation the (visible) church started to (painfully) emerge from this corruption. This process continued through various “moves of God.” What seemed to be happening at those times was the emergence of truth which had been ignored, sometimes for centuries, but was again being embraced and experienced by God’s people.
Then I like to think of an unseen church of which very little is known. I am convinced that in every age and all around the globe the Lord knows those that are his and, in the midst of darkness and confusion, calls them to participate in his eternal purpose on earth. If you have ever read the story of Sadhu Sundar Singh you will know the sort of thing I am talking about. They are not noticed by the world and are generally studiously ignored by the church.
Then again, there are the individual members of the Body of Christ who, during their lifetimes, “are being transformed into his image with ever‑increasing glory” (2 Corinthians 3:18, NIV). There are those within the institutional churches, people of spiritual integrity, whose hearts are devoted to loving and serving the Lord Jesus Christ. Such as these seldom rise to places of real power in these terminally corrupt ecclesiastical structures for obvious reasons. But individually, they have, by the grace of God, risen above the suffocating environment and are shining witnesses to the grace of God.
As we look into the history of the church, we can see a spiritual decline from the New Testament church into the gross darkness of the middle ages. With the Reformation the (visible) church started to (painfully) emerge from this corruption. This process continued through various “moves of God.” What seemed to be happening at those times was the emergence of truth which had been ignored, sometimes for centuries, but was again being embraced and experienced by God’s people.
Then I like to think of an unseen church of which very little is known. I am convinced that in every age and all around the globe the Lord knows those that are his and, in the midst of darkness and confusion, calls them to participate in his eternal purpose on earth. If you have ever read the story of Sadhu Sundar Singh you will know the sort of thing I am talking about. They are not noticed by the world and are generally studiously ignored by the church.
Then again, there are the individual members of the Body of Christ who, during their lifetimes, “are being transformed into his image with ever‑increasing glory” (2 Corinthians 3:18, NIV). There are those within the institutional churches, people of spiritual integrity, whose hearts are devoted to loving and serving the Lord Jesus Christ. Such as these seldom rise to places of real power in these terminally corrupt ecclesiastical structures for obvious reasons. But individually, they have, by the grace of God, risen above the suffocating environment and are shining witnesses to the grace of God.
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Totally agree. I am leaving the Church I was attending. Trying to discuss the Bible, Scriptures, God, edifying commentary about doctrine or anything of the sort after the sermon was like pulling teeth. In fact people would go away way out of their way to avoid......completely avoid any discussion about the Bible. There would not be any discussion about the sermon for pity's sake.
The whole scenario was so strained, so unnatural it was spooky. I discovered the main problem that being that most people at this Church including the pastor and his assistant are amillennialists. I am quite the prophecy buff and they want absolutely no part of it. After all who needs prophecy if Christ is never going to return? Or if he already has returned in 70ad?
Correct. Satan's ploy of marrying the church with the world was extremely effective. Previous to Constantine the doctrine was pure, there was by and large unity, and heresies were quickly and competently dealt with.
Nowadays anything goes. Surely the end is near my friends. Pretty soon it's going to be digital money and communism everywhere. All of which the apostate Laodocean and Sardis Churches will welcome with open arms.
1 cor 11
18For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
19For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
18For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
19For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
What is the body of Christ?
All redeemed or speaking of the local church body?
The bible doesn't call it both these things.
The body of Christ IS the church.
So what did we mean when we call the body of Christ all redeemed?
Are we talking of the future heavenly Jerusalem? Because yea.. that will be a body of all redeemed, but..
We aren't there yet!
What we have now is local bodies of believers.. local churches. Some believers are in them, some not.
What we have got now is the Family of God and the Kingdom of God that shows all redeemed within them.
Is this what is meant when talking about the body of Christ?
Because then why not call it the Family of God?
All redeemed or speaking of the local church body?
The bible doesn't call it both these things.
The body of Christ IS the church.
So what did we mean when we call the body of Christ all redeemed?
Are we talking of the future heavenly Jerusalem? Because yea.. that will be a body of all redeemed, but..
We aren't there yet!
What we have now is local bodies of believers.. local churches. Some believers are in them, some not.
What we have got now is the Family of God and the Kingdom of God that shows all redeemed within them.
Is this what is meant when talking about the body of Christ?
Because then why not call it the Family of God?
The scripture is referring to the entire bible, as the Revelation is inseparable from other books such as Daniel, both are needed to interpret one another, just to mention one.
To think it's a penalty to alter Revelation, but not the rest of Gods words
The scripture is referring to the entire bible, as the Revelation is inseparable from other books such as Daniel, both are needed to interpret one another, just to mention one.
To think it's a penalty to alter Revelation, but not the rest of Gods words
To extract that thought from what I said really is taking my words out of context. The bible is not a book, but a Compilation of 66 books and revelation is one of them. I made no inference that it is ok to tamper with scripture - but rather just pointed out that verse was the prophet referring to the book he wrote - revelation.
You are entitled to disagree of course - but please don’t “add to my words” or assume more into my meanings than I have written. I value scripture and have no intentions of saying anyone should add to or alter them.
In a primary sense. But since Revelation is the final book of the Bible, that warning can be extended to all Scripture. Indeed warnings to not tamper with the Word of God are also found in the OT.