5 no-brainers…agree? disagree?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Truthfinder12

New member
Oct 13, 2025
17
5
3
As I see it, the following are 5 obvious truths that are supported by the Bible and reason. But most importantly, it just feels right❤
1. There is a God.
2. Even though most religions have at least some truth, there can only be one path that has all truth (Ephesians 4:5 KJV).
3. Even though there can only be one path that leads to salvation, all those on false paths will be taught about the true path and then they will get their reward. (1Peter 4:6, Matthew 16:27 KJV).
4. The Bible, as wonderful as it is, is not enough. It talks of baptism, and partaking of bread and water and the Bible alone can not do that (Acts 2:41-42, John 6:54 KJV).
5. God always has and always will lead his people by choosing leaders and teachers to lead his people (Ephesians 4:11-14 KJV).
 
As I see it, the following are 5 obvious truths that are supported by the Bible and reason. But most importantly, it just feels right❤
1. There is a God.
2. Even though most religions have at least some truth, there can only be one path that has all truth (Ephesians 4:5 KJV).
3. Even though there can only be one path that leads to salvation, all those on false paths will be taught about the true path and then they will get their reward. (1Peter 4:6, Matthew 16:27 KJV).
4. The Bible, as wonderful as it is, is not enough. It talks of baptism, and partaking of bread and water and the Bible alone can not do that (Acts 2:41-42, John 6:54 KJV).
5. God always has and always will lead his people by choosing leaders and teachers to lead his people (Ephesians 4:11-14 KJV).


3. Even though there can only be one path that leads to salvation, all those on false paths will be taught about the true path and then they will get their reward. (1Peter 4:6, Matthew 16:27 KJV).

Will you elaborate more on this?

4. The Bible, as wonderful as it is, is not enough. It talks of baptism, and partaking of bread and water and the Bible alone can not do that (Acts 2:41-42, John 6:54 KJV).

It's not the Bible, but Jesus.


🕊
 
4. The Bible is just the way we learn truth. The book itself can't save anyone. When you stand before God, He's not going to ask what kind of Bible or translation you had.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truthfinder12
As I see it, the following are 5 obvious truths that are supported by the Bible and reason. But most importantly, it just feels right❤
1. There is a God.
2. Even though most religions have at least some truth, there can only be one path that has all truth (Ephesians 4:5 KJV).
3. Even though there can only be one path that leads to salvation, all those on false paths will be taught about the true path and then they will get their reward. (1Peter 4:6, Matthew 16:27 KJV).
4. The Bible, as wonderful as it is, is not enough. It talks of baptism, and partaking of bread and water and the Bible alone can not do that (Acts 2:41-42, John 6:54 KJV).
5. God always has and always will lead his people by choosing leaders and teachers to lead his people (Ephesians 4:11-14 KJV).

1. Most important is indeed God/the Truth/Word regarding GRFS. "How we feel about it" refers to whether we choose to cooperate or not.
2. All souls have at least general revelation via creation and conscience, which serves as a proto-Gospel or foreshadowing of the Gospel.
3. Those who seek the truth will find the path to salvation per the promise of Jesus in Matt. 7:7.
4. The Bible is enough for revealing GRFS, which involves the Bread of life and HS.
5. God calls all believers to learn from GW how to live a godly life, which includes obeying 1Pet. 3:15.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThereRoseaLamb
Will you elaborate more on this?


🕊
I would love to elaborate on #3, this is by far my favorite doctrine that just feels right once you put all the pieces together.
According to my research there are over 33,000 Christian denominations and over 4,000 non-Christian religions in the world. As I see it, that means that there are over 37,000 false paths compared to just one true path which is God’s path. According to some, that’s a lot of people burning in hell forever and ever. But according to those two scriptures I posted earlier (1Peter 4:6, Matthew 16:27) God is perfect in justice and mercy. The dead will have to suffer for their unrepented sins, but they will also be taught the one true path. When they accept the one true path they shall be delivered from hell and shall get their just reward (John 5:25, Revelations 20:13).
 
I would love to elaborate on #3, this is by far my favorite doctrine that just feels right once you put all the pieces together.
According to my research there are over 33,000 Christian denominations and over 4,000 non-Christian religions in the world. As I see it, that means that there are over 37,000 false paths compared to just one true path which is God’s path. According to some, that’s a lot of people burning in hell forever and ever. But according to those two scriptures I posted earlier (1Peter 4:6, Matthew 16:27) God is perfect in justice and mercy. The dead will have to suffer for their unrepented sins, but they will also be taught the one true path. When they accept the one true path they shall be delivered from hell and shall get their just reward (John 5:25, Revelations 20:13).


I just wrote about this elsewhere, but it's pertinent:

The bible says....

Hebrews 9:27 "It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment."

2 Corinthians 6:2 "Now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation."

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Romans 2:14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

There's no second chance in hell.


🕊
 
As I see it, the following are 5 obvious truths that are supported by the Bible and reason. But most importantly, it just feels right❤
1. There is a God.
2. Even though most religions have at least some truth, there can only be one path that has all truth (Ephesians 4:5 KJV).
3. Even though there can only be one path that leads to salvation, all those on false paths will be taught about the true path and then they will get their reward. (1Peter 4:6, Matthew 16:27 KJV).
4. The Bible, as wonderful as it is, is not enough. It talks of baptism, and partaking of bread and water and the Bible alone can not do that (Acts 2:41-42, John 6:54 KJV).
5. God always has and always will lead his people by choosing leaders and teachers to lead his people (Ephesians 4:11-14 KJV).
1. true. the blessed 1 & only potentate who's son is Jesus & who's spirit is the Holy Spirit.
2. yes, 1 way to God, by Jesus, John 14:6- "i am the way, the truth & the life, no man cometh to the Father but by Me".
3. the Bible says that for evil doers, their reward is on earth too.
4. the Bible is not enough? for what? that's open for a peaceful debate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThereRoseaLamb
Which bible are we talking about? The one with 81 books or the one with 73 books or the one with 66 books?

Some of the authors of the Hebrew bible used other, non-biblical books as references for what they wrote. Few of any of these external sources exist today. As mentioned in the Hebrew bible, this includes the Book of Jasher, Book of the Wars of the Lord, Chronicles of the Kings of Israel, Chronicles of the Kings of Judah, (both mentioned over 30 times), Book of Shemaiah, Story of the Prophet Iddo, Book of Statutes, Acts of Solomon, Annals of King David, Book of Samuel the Seer, Book of Nathan the Prophet, Book of Gad the Seer, Book of Anijah, Book of Jehu, Acts of Uzziah, Vision of Isiah, Sayings of the Seers, Laments of Josiah and Chronicles of King Ahasuerus.

Tell me more about the Bible you have chosen from which to pick 5"truths?"
 
Which bible are we talking about? The one with 81 books or the one with 73 books or the one with 66 books?

Some of the authors of the Hebrew bible used other, non-biblical books as references for what they wrote. Few of any of these external sources exist today. As mentioned in the Hebrew bible, this includes the Book of Jasher, Book of the Wars of the Lord, Chronicles of the Kings of Israel, Chronicles of the Kings of Judah, (both mentioned over 30 times), Book of Shemaiah, Story of the Prophet Iddo, Book of Statutes, Acts of Solomon, Annals of King David, Book of Samuel the Seer, Book of Nathan the Prophet, Book of Gad the Seer, Book of Anijah, Book of Jehu, Acts of Uzziah, Vision of Isiah, Sayings of the Seers, Laments of Josiah and Chronicles of King Ahasuerus.

Tell me more about the Bible you have chosen from which to pick 5"truths?"

The one with 66 books and 5 truths regarding God's Requirement for Salvation:
  1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who loves sinful humanity (Rom. 5:6-8, John 3:16) and who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
  2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
  3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
  4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), at which moment God’s loving Holy Spirit of Christ indwells/baptizes the believer into the church (Rev. 3:20, Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13).
  5. Loving Christ Jesus as Lord (Luke 2:11), God the Son (Matt. 16:16) or God in the human dimension (Col. 2:9) means reflecting divine love as empowered by the Holy Spirit, thereby obeying His command to love one another (Matt. 7:21, 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2), which will eventually achieve spiritual maturity on earth and heaven after Christ returns at God’s resurrection (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Phil. 3:12-16, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThereRoseaLamb
Do you see the "bible" as a means of confirming your preconceptions by stringing together texts that are not in context. Is that how you see the bible....just a google search for terms. It’s like going to a library and pulling from 73,000 pages of 66 library books strings of unrelated quotes that "prove" something important to you. You cut and past them together and call “God’s Word.” Be careful. By this technique of proof texting, virtually any theology can be justified began reading your 48 quotes ignoring your definitions of their meanings. As an example of how well your technique works... "There is one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God who loves sinful humanity and who is both able to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.”

Nahum 1:2-8 (KJV/NIV): "When God get jealous He will kill.". Deuteronomy 32:35 Romans 12:19 (KJV): "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord". Ezekiel 25:17 (NIV): "I will carry out great vengeance on them and punish them in my wrath. Then they will know that I am the LORD, when I take vengeance on them". Hebrews 10:30 (KJV): "For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongs to Me, I will recompense, saith the Lord". What do you know. God has the exact same "emotions" as us sinful humans.

You quote the Schema from Deut 6:4. God is one. However, after "Christianity" became indistinguishable from the power of Rome after about 350 AD anyone who said "God is One" was put to death. That continued even after the Protestant revolution. Anyone claiming God is One was deemed a heretic because it denied God is 3 in one thus you were the hated Arian. Those claiming "God is One" were burned at the stake by the thousands with the last one recorded burned to death in 1612.

For the sin of taking a census, God gave David three punishment options. When he did not choose a punishment God caused a three-day plague that killed 70,000 men in Israel. 70,000 who had no sin of their own were killed by a God just trying to get Kind David's attention.

Then there is the killer God who offers no repentance. Er (Genesis 38:7): Killed by God because he was wicked in the Lord's sight. Onan (Genesis 38:10): Killed by God for failing to produce offspring with his brother's widow (spilling seed). Lot’s Wife (Genesis 19:26): Turned into a pillar of salt for looking back at the destruction of Sodom. Nadab and Abihu (Leviticus 10:1–2): Sons of Aaron, killed by fire from the Lord for offering "unauthorized fire." Korah and his companions (Numbers 16): Swallowed by the earth for rebelling against Moses. Nabal (1 Samuel 25:38): Killed by God after he refused to provide for David and his men. Uzzah (2 Samuel 6:6-7): Struck down for touching the Ark of the Covenant to steady it. David and Bathsheba’s infant son (2 Samuel 12:14-18): Killed as punishment for David's adultery and murder of Uriah. Saul (1 Chronicles 10:13-14): Killed for disobedience and consulting a medium. Jeroboam (2 Chronicles 13:20): Struck down by God. Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1–11): Killed by the Holy Spirit for lying about a land sale donation. Herod Agrippa (Acts 12:23): Struck down by an angel for accepting worship as a god. Mass Killings & Catastrophes The Global Flood (Genesis 7:21–23): Drowned the entire human population except for Noah and his family. Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:24-25): Destroyed with fire and brimstone. Firstborn of Egypt (Exodus 12:29): Killed during the tenth plague. Egyptian Army (Exodus 14): Drowned in the Red Sea. The Midianites (Numbers 31:7–18): Total destruction ordered, except for virgins taken as spoils. Jericho (Joshua 6:21): The entire city was destroyed men, children and old women. They young women were given to God's arm as sex slaves. 42 Youths (2 Kings 2:23–24): Mauled by bears for mocking the prophet Elisha. Assyrian Army (2 Kings 19:35): 185,000 soldiers killed in one night by an angel. People/Groups Killed by Divine Command (via Humans) The Canaanites: Utterly destroyed by the Israelites under Joshua (Deuteronomy 20:17, Joshua 6:17). Men, old women and children but the young women were kept as sex slaves to reward the Hebrews. The Amalekites (1 Samuel 15:3): Ordered to be destroyed (men, women, children, and infants). Worshipers of Baal (2 Kings 10:18-27): Slain by Jehu under God’s authorization.

When God could not control his male angels sexual urges, they left heaven to breed with "beautiful" human women. The result was that God was so mad that he regretted the whole thing so He killed all living things including animals, birds, reptiles, insects and fish on earth except for a few animals and one family. Across the scope of the Hebrew bible God kills or orders the killing of those impeding a plan that neither the Hebrews or those around them understood. God loves mankind so much that by the theology of most "Christians" 99.95% of all humans who ever lived are in hell or going to hell. ....but we have a "loving God."

This is the result of proof texting theology as if it "proves" anything. When it lacks context it “proves” nothing.
 
Salvation is believing Jesus lived died and rose again, that He is God.

Knowing you are a sinner headed for hell and believing in Jesus.. that He can forgive your sin and give eternal life.
 
Do you see the "bible" as a means of confirming your preconceptions by stringing together texts that are not in context. Is that how you see the bible....just a google search for terms. It’s like going to a library and pulling from 73,000 pages of 66 library books strings of unrelated quotes that "prove" something important to you. You cut and past them together and call “God’s Word.” Be careful. By this technique of proof texting, virtually any theology can be justified began reading your 48 quotes ignoring your definitions of their meanings. As an example of how well your technique works... "There is one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God who loves sinful humanity and who is both able to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.”

Nahum 1:2-8 (KJV/NIV): "When God get jealous He will kill.". Deuteronomy 32:35 Romans 12:19 (KJV): "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord". Ezekiel 25:17 (NIV): "I will carry out great vengeance on them and punish them in my wrath. Then they will know that I am the LORD, when I take vengeance on them". Hebrews 10:30 (KJV): "For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongs to Me, I will recompense, saith the Lord". What do you know. God has the exact same "emotions" as us sinful humans.

You quote the Schema from Deut 6:4. God is one. However, after "Christianity" became indistinguishable from the power of Rome after about 350 AD anyone who said "God is One" was put to death. That continued even after the Protestant revolution. Anyone claiming God is One was deemed a heretic because it denied God is 3 in one thus you were the hated Arian. Those claiming "God is One" were burned at the stake by the thousands with the last one recorded burned to death in 1612.

For the sin of taking a census, God gave David three punishment options. When he did not choose a punishment God caused a three-day plague that killed 70,000 men in Israel. 70,000 who had no sin of their own were killed by a God just trying to get Kind David's attention.

Then there is the killer God who offers no repentance. Er (Genesis 38:7): Killed by God because he was wicked in the Lord's sight. Onan (Genesis 38:10): Killed by God for failing to produce offspring with his brother's widow (spilling seed). Lot’s Wife (Genesis 19:26): Turned into a pillar of salt for looking back at the destruction of Sodom. Nadab and Abihu (Leviticus 10:1–2): Sons of Aaron, killed by fire from the Lord for offering "unauthorized fire." Korah and his companions (Numbers 16): Swallowed by the earth for rebelling against Moses. Nabal (1 Samuel 25:38): Killed by God after he refused to provide for David and his men. Uzzah (2 Samuel 6:6-7): Struck down for touching the Ark of the Covenant to steady it. David and Bathsheba’s infant son (2 Samuel 12:14-18): Killed as punishment for David's adultery and murder of Uriah. Saul (1 Chronicles 10:13-14): Killed for disobedience and consulting a medium. Jeroboam (2 Chronicles 13:20): Struck down by God. Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1–11): Killed by the Holy Spirit for lying about a land sale donation. Herod Agrippa (Acts 12:23): Struck down by an angel for accepting worship as a god. Mass Killings & Catastrophes The Global Flood (Genesis 7:21–23): Drowned the entire human population except for Noah and his family. Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:24-25): Destroyed with fire and brimstone. Firstborn of Egypt (Exodus 12:29): Killed during the tenth plague. Egyptian Army (Exodus 14): Drowned in the Red Sea. The Midianites (Numbers 31:7–18): Total destruction ordered, except for virgins taken as spoils. Jericho (Joshua 6:21): The entire city was destroyed men, children and old women. They young women were given to God's arm as sex slaves. 42 Youths (2 Kings 2:23–24): Mauled by bears for mocking the prophet Elisha. Assyrian Army (2 Kings 19:35): 185,000 soldiers killed in one night by an angel. People/Groups Killed by Divine Command (via Humans) The Canaanites: Utterly destroyed by the Israelites under Joshua (Deuteronomy 20:17, Joshua 6:17). Men, old women and children but the young women were kept as sex slaves to reward the Hebrews. The Amalekites (1 Samuel 15:3): Ordered to be destroyed (men, women, children, and infants). Worshipers of Baal (2 Kings 10:18-27): Slain by Jehu under God’s authorization.

When God could not control his male angels sexual urges, they left heaven to breed with "beautiful" human women. The result was that God was so mad that he regretted the whole thing so He killed all living things including animals, birds, reptiles, insects and fish on earth except for a few animals and one family. Across the scope of the Hebrew bible God kills or orders the killing of those impeding a plan that neither the Hebrews or those around them understood. God loves mankind so much that by the theology of most "Christians" 99.95% of all humans who ever lived are in hell or going to hell. ....but we have a "loving God."

This is the result of proof texting theology as if it "proves" anything. When it lacks context it “proves” nothing.

I assume "you" is me, because you cited my #1 as an example of how well my technique of seeing the Bible works: "There is one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God who loves sinful humanity and who is both able to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.”

Then you cited Scriptures saying that God killed various sinners for various sins, but admit that it is "proof texting" and proves nothing.
So, is your implicit question, "how do we harmonize my #1 with your collection of Scriptures?"

If so, please answer it. If not, please ask your question or state your point. Thanks.
 
My point is that they don't agree with your first statement about an all loving God. One can find writers making that case. One can also find evidence of the opposite. A God full of human emotions, anger, vindictiveness (God’s statement about visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation appears in Exodus 20:5, Exodus 34:7, and Deuteronomy 5:9.) Jealousy (Deuteronomy 4:24"For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God".) Love, grief, frustration and regret are all human traits of the eternal God found in the bible.... most likely because the writers could not conceive of God essentially different from themselves.
Point 1 - when you make categorical statements about the "nature" of God based on a few select snippets of scripture, it insults those who seek to understand God across the entire spectrum of the biblical narrative. The result is you are attempting to declare your microscopic image of God via snippiture is sufficient in defining God. It is not. I do not dispute the validity of the scriptures you used and their application, however, in my opinion, they are a floating bottle of truth on an ocean of scriptural reality.
Point 2 - You have constrained the context for your statements to the Protestant Bible. Is your point that only the Protestant Bible is authoritative?
Point 3 - What is the exegetical frame for taking statements made across 900 years and proclaiming they were all express the exact ideas as you have sitting here 2,000+ years later. In my opinion, this a creedal attempt at validation instead of call for understanding and insight. The approach seems to create a sense of harmony among those presupposed to provide that harmony.
Point 4 - Of your 2nd thesis is that only those who reject salvation will go to hell... it assumes nothing about the much larger question of what is the fate of those who could not and did not ever hear of Jesus? As the estimates are that there have been about 10 billion humans born before 1 AD, what of them? Where is your answer to them about an all loving God? Even within 21st century American christianity with 200 distinct groups most of which teach the "other" denominations are going to hell....not to mention the Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Quakers etc. So what represents "rejection of salvation?"....3 million have left the Baptist Church never to return since 2006. Is walking away from "christianity" one definition of "rejecting salvation?"
 
My point is that they don't agree with your first statement about an all loving God. One can find writers making that case. One can also find evidence of the opposite. A God full of human emotions, anger, vindictiveness (God’s statement about visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation appears in Exodus 20:5, Exodus 34:7, and Deuteronomy 5:9.) Jealousy (Deuteronomy 4:24"For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God".) Love, grief, frustration and regret are all human traits of the eternal God found in the bible.... most likely because the writers could not conceive of God essentially different from themselves.
Point 1 - when you make categorical statements about the "nature" of God based on a few select snippets of scripture, it insults those who seek to understand God across the entire spectrum of the biblical narrative. The result is you are attempting to declare your microscopic image of God via snippiture is sufficient in defining God. It is not. I do not dispute the validity of the scriptures you used and their application, however, in my opinion, they are a floating bottle of truth on an ocean of scriptural reality.
Point 2 - You have constrained the context for your statements to the Protestant Bible. Is your point that only the Protestant Bible is authoritative?
Point 3 - What is the exegetical frame for taking statements made across 900 years and proclaiming they were all express the exact ideas as you have sitting here 2,000+ years later. In my opinion, this a creedal attempt at validation instead of call for understanding and insight. The approach seems to create a sense of harmony among those presupposed to provide that harmony.
Point 4 - Of your 2nd thesis is that only those who reject salvation will go to hell... it assumes nothing about the much larger question of what is the fate of those who could not and did not ever hear of Jesus? As the estimates are that there have been about 10 billion humans born before 1 AD, what of them? Where is your answer to them about an all loving God? Even within 21st century American christianity with 200 distinct groups most of which teach the "other" denominations are going to hell....not to mention the Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Quakers etc. So what represents "rejection of salvation?"....3 million have left the Baptist Church never to return since 2006. Is walking away from "christianity" one definition of "rejecting salvation?"
Regarding "My point is that they don't agree with your first statement about an all loving God. One can find writers making that case. One can also find evidence of the opposite": I know, which is why I said you cited Scriptures saying that God killed various sinners for various sins, but admit that it is "proof texting" and proves nothing. So, is your implicit question, "how do we harmonize my #1 with your collection of Scriptures?". I await your answer to my question.

Re Point 1 "when you make categorical statements about the "nature" of God based on a few select snippets of scripture, it insults those who seek to understand God across the entire spectrum of the biblical narrative.": You misunderstand my intent, which is to do what you seem to want, which is why I asked "is your implicit question, "how do we harmonize my #1 with your collection of Scriptures?". I await your answer to my question."

Re "I do not dispute the validity of the scriptures you used and their application, however, in my opinion, they are a floating bottle of truth on an ocean of scriptural reality.": So, post the ocean

Re Point 2 "You have constrained the context for your statements to the Protestant Bible. Is your point that only the Protestant Bible is authoritative?": Compared to what?

Re "Point 3 "What is the exegetical frame for taking statements made across 900 years and proclaiming they were all express the exact ideas as you have sitting here 2,000+ years later.": The frame is the same God inspiring all.

Re "The approach seems to create a sense of harmony among those presupposed to provide that harmony." This is why I asked "is your implicit question, "how do we harmonize my #1 with your collection of Scriptures?". I await your answer to my question."

Re Point 4 "Of your 2nd thesis is that only those who reject salvation will go to hell... it assumes nothing about the much larger question of what is the fate of those who could not and did not ever hear of Jesus? As the estimates are that there have been about 10 billion humans born before 1 AD, what of them? Where is your answer to them about an all loving God?": Apparently you have not seen my many posts about that question, but do you want to answer it first?

Re "Is walking away from "christianity" one definition of "rejecting salvation?": That depends on what you imply by putting those words in quotation marks.

Over...
 
As memory serves, it was you who declared: "Human beings are selfish or sinful miserable and hopeless or hell-bound at the judgment when they reject God’s salvation." I'm not sure what question marks portend. You quoted 9 citations to "prove your point." (there are those pesky quotation marks.)

I am shocked that you failed to grasp Jesus's anger in Matt 23. Let's grab some context shall we:

“But woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You keep locking people out of the kingdom of heaven! For you neither enter nor permit those trying to enter to go in. “Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You cross land and sea to make one convert and when you get one, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves!

Condemned are hypocrites who stand in the way of those seeking the kingdom of heaven because they must believe like you and look like you and act like you and they in return treat others just like you did.

“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple is bound by nothing. But whoever swears by the gold of the temple is bound by the oath.’ Blind fools! Which is greater, the gold or the temple that makes the gold sacred? And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar is bound by nothing. But if anyone swears by the gift on it he is bound by the oath.’ You are blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and the one who dwells in it. And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and the one who sits on it. “Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You give a tenth of mint, dill, and cumin, yet you neglect what is more important in the law—justice, mercy, and faithfulness! You should have done these things without neglecting the others. Blind guides! You strain out a gnat yet swallow a camel! “Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup, so that the outside may become clean too!

Woe to those who invent all kinds of elaborate religious strategies and only care about your orthodoxy instead being people of justice, mercy and faithfulness.

“Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs that look beautiful on the outside but inside are full of the bones of the dead and of everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you look righteous to people, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. “Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have participated with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ By saying this you testify against yourselves that you are descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up then the measure of your ancestors! You snakes, you offspring of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Woe to those who strive to look good theologically, personally and spiritually for the only purpose of make more people just like you. You cling to your creeds and orthodoxies as if they will save you. It was the same slavery to established orthodoxy that killed the prophets (including Christ)

I am so glad you brought up Matthew 25, the least preached scripture in the New Testament. Here Jesus defines clearly who will be going to heaven and who will be going to hell. Guess what. It has nothing to do with what you claim to "believe" and your pocket full of proof texts showing your religious insight.

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
 
4. The Bible is just the way we learn truth. The book itself can't save anyone. When you stand before God, He's not going to ask what kind of Bible or translation you had.

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart...,.KJV

This verse makes the word of God sound alive almost. If our copy of the word of God can discern the thoughts and intents of our hearts, then it's conscious, right?
 
This verse makes the word of God sound alive almost. If our copy of the word of God can discern the thoughts and intents of our hearts, then it's conscious, right?

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart...,.KJV

Ok so I looked up this verse in blueletterbible.com and the definition of "Quick" in Greek is, Alive. So it would seem that we should not underestimate the Word of God. It is a supernatural book,

 
Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart...,.KJV

This verse makes the word of God sound alive almost. If our copy of the word of God can discern the thoughts and intents of our hearts, then it's conscious, right?
Reread Matthew 25. There is no doubt about what is required to be God's sheep. The external can only inform. The path to heaven is not about what you know, it is about what you have enough faith to do. Sitting an airconditioned concrete bunker perfecting your theology, creeds and proof texts is not in the plan.
 
As memory serves, it was you who declared: "Human beings are selfish or sinful miserable and hopeless or hell-bound at the judgment when they reject God’s salvation." I'm not sure what question marks portend. You quoted 9 citations to "prove your point." (there are those pesky quotation marks.)

I am shocked that you failed to grasp Jesus's anger in Matt 23. Let's grab some context shall we:

“But woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You keep locking people out of the kingdom of heaven! For you neither enter nor permit those trying to enter to go in. “Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You cross land and sea to make one convert and when you get one, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves!

Condemned are hypocrites who stand in the way of those seeking the kingdom of heaven because they must believe like you and look like you and act like you and they in return treat others just like you did.

“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple is bound by nothing. But whoever swears by the gold of the temple is bound by the oath.’ Blind fools! Which is greater, the gold or the temple that makes the gold sacred? And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar is bound by nothing. But if anyone swears by the gift on it he is bound by the oath.’ You are blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and the one who dwells in it. And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and the one who sits on it. “Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You give a tenth of mint, dill, and cumin, yet you neglect what is more important in the law—justice, mercy, and faithfulness! You should have done these things without neglecting the others. Blind guides! You strain out a gnat yet swallow a camel! “Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup, so that the outside may become clean too!

Woe to those who invent all kinds of elaborate religious strategies and only care about your orthodoxy instead being people of justice, mercy and faithfulness.

“Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs that look beautiful on the outside but inside are full of the bones of the dead and of everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you look righteous to people, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. “Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have participated with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ By saying this you testify against yourselves that you are descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up then the measure of your ancestors! You snakes, you offspring of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Woe to those who strive to look good theologically, personally and spiritually for the only purpose of make more people just like you. You cling to your creeds and orthodoxies as if they will save you. It was the same slavery to established orthodoxy that killed the prophets (including Christ)

I am so glad you brought up Matthew 25, the least preached scripture in the New Testament. Here Jesus defines clearly who will be going to heaven and who will be going to hell. Guess what. It has nothing to do with what you claim to "believe" and your pocket full of proof texts showing your religious insight.

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

BS, I do not see how your post replies to mine, so I will ask my questions again and # them:

1. Is your implicit question, "how do we harmonize my #1 (There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who loves sinful humanity (Rom. 5:6-8, John 3:16) and who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.) with your collection of Scriptures?"?

2. Please post examples of the "ocean" you cited: "I do not dispute the validity of the scriptures you used and their application, however, in my opinion, they are a floating bottle of truth on an ocean of scriptural reality."

3. When you ask whether I believe only the Protestant Bible is authoritative, I asked "Compared to what?"

4. You stated about the fate of those who could not and did not ever hear of Jesus, and I indicated that I have an answer but asked, "Do you want to answer it first?"

5. Re "Is walking away from "christianity" one definition of "rejecting salvation?": I asked, "what do you intend to imply by putting those words in quotation marks?"

Regarding your comments about "Jesus's anger in Matt 23": I agree that God/Christ has righteous anger.

6. Regarding Matthew 25, how does what I believe contradict what Jesus said? How is your insight differ?