2 Thess 2:1-12, (A Future Temple) Isaiah 66:1-9 Shows This To Be True, Same Events!
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PLEASE carefully read, and digest and objectively consider, and pray upon what I write before you reject it. PLEASE.
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Ok, there is scriptural basis for all that you say, but can it be verified? well, yes once the prophesies have been fulfilled. How do we know when it has been fulfilled? we must check with historical record. Let us do this now.
1) yes, there is a "Temple of the vatican"
2) In this temple they have resumed sacrifices by repeatedly re-sacrificing Jesus. this is called. tran·sub·stan·ti·a·tion. the conversion of the substance of the Eucharistic elements into the body and blood of Christ at consecration, only the appearances of bread and wine still remaining. they perform this sacrifice on the altar. They store the left overs of christ's body in a tabernacle. they also burn incense in the temple. The burned incense is intended as a symbolic or sacrificial offering
3) The pope lives in the apostolic palace which contains the sistine chapel, which is modeled after solomon's temple. remember the true God the Holy Father dwelled in the most holy place of solomons temple. today, the pope calls himself "holy father" and lives in the apostolic palace like king solomon did. and he also dwells in the most holy place of the temple. By all examples he is claiming himself to be Holy Father and King. he received worship and rules over all of false Christianity. He is the antichrist.
4) Acts 28 shows us that the Holy City changed from Jerusalem to Rome. (please objectively consider)
The mosaic covenent (for the jews) was replaced by a new covenent for both jews and gentiles. but the jews rejected the new covenent, while the gentiles accepted it. So god moved his holy city from the center of israel (city of the jews) to the center of the world (city of the gentiles). Read Acts 28 which includes Words from Prophet Isaiah and Words from Apostle Paul., The two you cited in this thread.
Acts 28:23-30
26 “‘Go to this people [the Jews] and say,
“You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]
28 “Therefore I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!” [29] [b]
30 For two whole years Paul stayed there [Rome] in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him. 31 He proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ—with all boldness and without hindrance!
THERFORE, we can verify all that you say will be in the future temple, but this has ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED!! Not exactly in the same manner that you predicted it would. But that is ok, because that is impossible. but once the prophesies are fulfilled only then can we fully understand them.
So yes the true 3rd temple of God with Jesus as cornerstone is the metaphorical temple decribed in Ephesians. (based of Ezekiels temple)
But Satan built a literal 3rd temple (false temple) in Rome to deceive the world. And look at how many people pilgrimage to this false temple each year (based off Isaiah 66 and 2 Thessilonians 2). Again you have predicted this but not in exactly this same way.
.
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Ok, there is scriptural basis for all that you say, but can it be verified? well, yes once the prophesies have been fulfilled. How do we know when it has been fulfilled? we must check with historical record. Let us do this now.
1) yes, there is a "Temple of the vatican"
2) In this temple they have resumed sacrifices by repeatedly re-sacrificing Jesus. this is called. tran·sub·stan·ti·a·tion. the conversion of the substance of the Eucharistic elements into the body and blood of Christ at consecration, only the appearances of bread and wine still remaining. they perform this sacrifice on the altar. They store the left overs of christ's body in a tabernacle. they also burn incense in the temple. The burned incense is intended as a symbolic or sacrificial offering
3) The pope lives in the apostolic palace which contains the sistine chapel, which is modeled after solomon's temple. remember the true God the Holy Father dwelled in the most holy place of solomons temple. today, the pope calls himself "holy father" and lives in the apostolic palace like king solomon did. and he also dwells in the most holy place of the temple. By all examples he is claiming himself to be Holy Father and King. he received worship and rules over all of false Christianity. He is the antichrist.
4) Acts 28 shows us that the Holy City changed from Jerusalem to Rome. (please objectively consider)
The mosaic covenent (for the jews) was replaced by a new covenent for both jews and gentiles. but the jews rejected the new covenent, while the gentiles accepted it. So god moved his holy city from the center of israel (city of the jews) to the center of the world (city of the gentiles). Read Acts 28 which includes Words from Prophet Isaiah and Words from Apostle Paul., The two you cited in this thread.
Acts 28:23-30
26 “‘Go to this people [the Jews] and say,
“You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]
28 “Therefore I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!” [29] [b]
30 For two whole years Paul stayed there [Rome] in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him. 31 He proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ—with all boldness and without hindrance!
THERFORE, we can verify all that you say will be in the future temple, but this has ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED!! Not exactly in the same manner that you predicted it would. But that is ok, because that is impossible. but once the prophesies are fulfilled only then can we fully understand them.
So yes the true 3rd temple of God with Jesus as cornerstone is the metaphorical temple decribed in Ephesians. (based of Ezekiels temple)
But Satan built a literal 3rd temple (false temple) in Rome to deceive the world. And look at how many people pilgrimage to this false temple each year (based off Isaiah 66 and 2 Thessilonians 2). Again you have predicted this but not in exactly this same way.
.
First of all I never mentioned sacrifices. Why because when the antichrist sets in the temple of God showing himself to be a god there will be no need for any sacrifices because the antichrist will claim to be the God of the Bibles.
No I am not saying that there will be a new temple on the temple mount because the antichrist can not sit in a temple of God and declare himself or show himself to be a God without a temple to sit in first. Scripture says the the antichrist sit in a temple of God and show himself to be God. Wake up and smell the coffee. There is no temple of God on the temple mount right now but there is the Dome of the Rock. Otherwise known as the El -Aqsa Mosque.
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
99 percent of Christians know very little about the Quran and Islam but the Quran and Islam play a significant role in end time events.
The Muslims are waiting for a man of a Jewish blood line to return. Yes that is right. The Muslims are waiting on Jesus to return and fulfill their prophetic scriptures. Most Jewish people in Isreal are waiting for a Messiah/Jesus to come for the first time and we Christians are waiting for the return of Christ. But neither the Jewish people or we Christians could ever accept or be decieved into thinking that the El- Aqsa Mosque is the "Temple of God" spoken of in 2 Thess. 1- 4 and the non messianic Jewish people would never be satified unless there was a new temple built on the temple mount. So where did God sit when He occupied the Temple??? He sat in the Holy of Holies and the El-Aqsa Mosque is not set up with a Holy of Holies or in any other way like described in the Bible.
We should also take notice that the word "God" in 2 Thess 2:4 is capitalized twice. Everywhere else in all of the Bible when the God mentions a false god the word "god" is never capitalized, but here the word God is capitalized. So there will be a new Temple of God built on the Temple Mount and the antichrist will sit in a new Holy of Holies and declare himself to be God.
No I am not saying that there will be a new temple on the temple mount because the antichrist can not sit in a temple of God and declare himself or show himself to be a God without a temple to sit in first. Scripture says the the antichrist sit in a temple of God and show himself to be God. Wake up and smell the coffee. There is no temple of God on the temple mount right now but there is the Dome of the Rock. Otherwise known as the El -Aqsa Mosque.
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
99 percent of Christians know very little about the Quran and Islam but the Quran and Islam play a significant role in end time events.
The Muslims are waiting for a man of a Jewish blood line to return. Yes that is right. The Muslims are waiting on Jesus to return and fulfill their prophetic scriptures. Most Jewish people in Isreal are waiting for a Messiah/Jesus to come for the first time and we Christians are waiting for the return of Christ. But neither the Jewish people or we Christians could ever accept or be decieved into thinking that the El- Aqsa Mosque is the "Temple of God" spoken of in 2 Thess. 1- 4 and the non messianic Jewish people would never be satified unless there was a new temple built on the temple mount. So where did God sit when He occupied the Temple??? He sat in the Holy of Holies and the El-Aqsa Mosque is not set up with a Holy of Holies or in any other way like described in the Bible.
We should also take notice that the word "God" in 2 Thess 2:4 is capitalized twice. Everywhere else in all of the Bible when the God mentions a false god the word "god" is never capitalized, but here the word God is capitalized. So there will be a new Temple of God built on the Temple Mount and the antichrist will sit in a new Holy of Holies and declare himself to be God.
Actually Truth7t7 is correct. The only two end time doctrinal beliefs that existed for at least 1400 years were the Mid Tribulation and the Preterist belief.
The early church believed that the great tribulation was going to be a contest or test of the righteous and Irenaeus wrote “There will be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither will be. “For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which they are crowned with incorruption when they overcome”. Another early church leader named Hippolytus wrote, “The woman was given two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly into the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”(Revelation 12:14)(KJV) That refers to the one thousand two hundred and sixty days during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the church, which flees from city to city, and seeks concealment in the wilderness among the mountains. For she possesses no other defense then the two wings of the great eagle, that is to say, the faith of Jesus Christ. It is important to note here that at the time of this writing there was no such a thing as the country or state of Israel.
The most important fact here is the time, and times, and half a time which equals one thousand two hundred sixty days which equals three and one half years. Early Christian writers got it right. There is nothing written anywhere in the Bible that says anything about any seven years of tribulation, the Bible speaks of a period of seven years in which there will be a period of tribulation and a period of the wrath of God. The wrath of God and tribulation are not the same.
Victorinus wrote several well-known and scholarly commentaries on the Old and New Testament but unfortunately only a few scraps of his works about Genesis and Revelation have survived. He fought against several of the heresies of his time and he believed that Christ would return to earth and rule for a thousand years which was later condemned as heresy by the church at Rome which is why many of his works were suppressed and lost.
Victorinus also believed that the three and one half year mark would be a turning point for the world. He wrote “When the three years and six months are completed in the preaching of Elijah, [Satan] will be cast down from heaven. For up until that time he had had the power of ascending. And all the apostate angels, as well as the antichrist, must be roused up from Hades …” And I saw a beast rising up from the sea like a leopard.” (Revelation 13:1 & 2) (KJV)
There were most of the early church leaders believed in a 3 1/2 years tribulation before the resurrection.
The early church believed that the great tribulation was going to be a contest or test of the righteous and Irenaeus wrote “There will be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither will be. “For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which they are crowned with incorruption when they overcome”. Another early church leader named Hippolytus wrote, “The woman was given two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly into the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”(Revelation 12:14)(KJV) That refers to the one thousand two hundred and sixty days during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the church, which flees from city to city, and seeks concealment in the wilderness among the mountains. For she possesses no other defense then the two wings of the great eagle, that is to say, the faith of Jesus Christ. It is important to note here that at the time of this writing there was no such a thing as the country or state of Israel.
The most important fact here is the time, and times, and half a time which equals one thousand two hundred sixty days which equals three and one half years. Early Christian writers got it right. There is nothing written anywhere in the Bible that says anything about any seven years of tribulation, the Bible speaks of a period of seven years in which there will be a period of tribulation and a period of the wrath of God. The wrath of God and tribulation are not the same.
Victorinus wrote several well-known and scholarly commentaries on the Old and New Testament but unfortunately only a few scraps of his works about Genesis and Revelation have survived. He fought against several of the heresies of his time and he believed that Christ would return to earth and rule for a thousand years which was later condemned as heresy by the church at Rome which is why many of his works were suppressed and lost.
Victorinus also believed that the three and one half year mark would be a turning point for the world. He wrote “When the three years and six months are completed in the preaching of Elijah, [Satan] will be cast down from heaven. For up until that time he had had the power of ascending. And all the apostate angels, as well as the antichrist, must be roused up from Hades …” And I saw a beast rising up from the sea like a leopard.” (Revelation 13:1 & 2) (KJV)
There were most of the early church leaders believed in a 3 1/2 years tribulation before the resurrection.
Here you go again. I provide you with some facts with integrity and scripture and you just want to talk garbage. No most folks will not see it for what it is which is why there will be a great falling away from the church. I.E. Departure from the faith.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Your statement contradicts what the Word of your God says. If everybody will see it for what it is and not be deceived by it, the falling away from the faith would never have been mentioned because no one will fall away. Get yourself some education and good research tools and maybe you won't be making such a fool of yourself by contradicting the Bible.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Your statement contradicts what the Word of your God says. If everybody will see it for what it is and not be deceived by it, the falling away from the faith would never have been mentioned because no one will fall away. Get yourself some education and good research tools and maybe you won't be making such a fool of yourself by contradicting the Bible.
What you ultimately provided were not facts, but a detailed prediction on future events based off your interpretation of scripture.
I believe that no man is capable of making accurate future predictions based off scripture.
Am I wrong? Then give me just one example where this has ever happened? Just one!!!
I believe that no man is capable of making accurate future predictions based off scripture.
Am I wrong? Then give me just one example where this has ever happened? Just one!!!
Where is there inconsistency, mis-matching or biblical contradiction in my prophesy fulfillment verification???
1) is the vatican not a temple?
2) are they not performing sacrifices in the temple of the vatican?
3) is the pope not acting in lawlessness? Why must the man of lawlessness be only one man? Is this what Jesus said?
Luke 21:7-8 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?” [Jesus] replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them.
Don't many people keep making false predictions that the "end times" are near?
4) How can we insist that Jerusalem remains God's Holy City when it has been devoid for 2000 years?
Did not Jesus foretell of Jerusalem's destruction and desolation?
Luke 21:20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those [believers] who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
Here is the historical account for comparison, which matches what Jesus said. That believers would heed the sign of the times and flee Jerusalem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_centers_of_Christianity#Jerusalem
Desolation of Jerusalem
In 66, the Jews revolted against Rome.[9] Rome besieged Jerusalem for four years, and the city fell in 70.[9] The city, including the Temple, was destroyed and the population was mostly killed or removed.[9] According to a tradition recorded by Eusebius and Epiphanius of Salamis, the Jerusalem church fled to Pella at the outbreak of the First Jewish Revolt.[15][16] According to Epiphanius of Salamis,[17] the Cenacle survived at least to Hadrian's visit in 130. A scattered population survived.[9] The Sanhedrin relocated to Jamnia.[18] Prophecies of the Second Temple's destruction are found in the synoptics,[19] specifically in the Olivet Discourse.
In the 2nd century, Hadrian rebuilt Jerusalem as a pagan city called Aelia Capitolina,[20] erecting statues of Jupiter and himself on the site of the former Jewish Temple, the Temple Mount. Bar Cochba led an unsuccessful revolt as a Messiah, but Christians refused to acknowledge him as such. When Bar Cochba was defeated, Hadrian barred Jews from the city, except for the day of Tisha B'Av, thus the subsequent Jerusalem bishops were gentiles ("uncircumcised") for the first time.[21]
While Jerusalem became desolate Rome became Christian Center
By the end of the first century, Christianity had already spread to Rome and major cities in Armenia, Greece and Syria, serving as foundations for the expansive spread of Christianity, eventually throughout the world.
While the church in Rome was already flourishing when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Romans to them from Corinth (c.58)[51] he attests to a large Christian community already there[48] and greets some fifty people in Rome by name
The famous letter of St. Clement of Rome to the Corinthian church (about 96) exhibits the earliest evidence concerning the ecclesiastical primacy of the Roman Church.
Rome soon was corrupted and overtaken by the apostasy, which matches 2 thessalonians
I am not just speculating, but verifying these prophesies to the historical record. It all fits like a hand to a glove.
If not:
Please tell me where I have inconsistency?
Please tell me where I have miss-matching or lack of verification?
Please tell me where I am creating biblical contradictions?
1) is the vatican not a temple?
2) are they not performing sacrifices in the temple of the vatican?
3) is the pope not acting in lawlessness? Why must the man of lawlessness be only one man? Is this what Jesus said?
Luke 21:7-8 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?” [Jesus] replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them.
Don't many people keep making false predictions that the "end times" are near?
4) How can we insist that Jerusalem remains God's Holy City when it has been devoid for 2000 years?
Did not Jesus foretell of Jerusalem's destruction and desolation?
Luke 21:20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those [believers] who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
Here is the historical account for comparison, which matches what Jesus said. That believers would heed the sign of the times and flee Jerusalem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_centers_of_Christianity#Jerusalem
Desolation of Jerusalem
In 66, the Jews revolted against Rome.[9] Rome besieged Jerusalem for four years, and the city fell in 70.[9] The city, including the Temple, was destroyed and the population was mostly killed or removed.[9] According to a tradition recorded by Eusebius and Epiphanius of Salamis, the Jerusalem church fled to Pella at the outbreak of the First Jewish Revolt.[15][16] According to Epiphanius of Salamis,[17] the Cenacle survived at least to Hadrian's visit in 130. A scattered population survived.[9] The Sanhedrin relocated to Jamnia.[18] Prophecies of the Second Temple's destruction are found in the synoptics,[19] specifically in the Olivet Discourse.
In the 2nd century, Hadrian rebuilt Jerusalem as a pagan city called Aelia Capitolina,[20] erecting statues of Jupiter and himself on the site of the former Jewish Temple, the Temple Mount. Bar Cochba led an unsuccessful revolt as a Messiah, but Christians refused to acknowledge him as such. When Bar Cochba was defeated, Hadrian barred Jews from the city, except for the day of Tisha B'Av, thus the subsequent Jerusalem bishops were gentiles ("uncircumcised") for the first time.[21]
While Jerusalem became desolate Rome became Christian Center
By the end of the first century, Christianity had already spread to Rome and major cities in Armenia, Greece and Syria, serving as foundations for the expansive spread of Christianity, eventually throughout the world.
While the church in Rome was already flourishing when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Romans to them from Corinth (c.58)[51] he attests to a large Christian community already there[48] and greets some fifty people in Rome by name
The famous letter of St. Clement of Rome to the Corinthian church (about 96) exhibits the earliest evidence concerning the ecclesiastical primacy of the Roman Church.
Rome soon was corrupted and overtaken by the apostasy, which matches 2 thessalonians
I am not just speculating, but verifying these prophesies to the historical record. It all fits like a hand to a glove.
If not:
Please tell me where I have inconsistency?
Please tell me where I have miss-matching or lack of verification?
Please tell me where I am creating biblical contradictions?
What you have done with your post is cast so much doubt on what the Word of God says. If we can't believe in what the Word of God says is true about any of The Lords predictions then we can't believe in our salvation or God Himself or any part of the Bible. You are speaking that words of satan in that you are doubt casting on the ability of the Holy Spirit to do His job of helping us to properly understand what the Word of God is telling us on any given subject and you are doubt casting on the ability of any man's ability to seek understanding from God and any man's ability to USE COMMON SENSE when it comes to scripture. LOL get thee behind me satan!!!!
I believe in what the Bible says and I never said anything about ME PREDICTING ANYTHING. All we are able to do is to base what we think or believe based on what the word of God says or doesn't say. So when I speak on or about any scripture it is based on what the Word of God says and my research of that word. So with that in mind the word "temple" in 2 Thess 2:4 is talking about the Holy place within the temple building which was the temple standing during the days of Christ, In the Strong's #3485 the definition given for the word "temple" is Temple or Shrine. In the Thayre's Greek English Lexicon #3485 the word "temple" is speaking of a real temple building. The example given is that Judas who was desperation entered the Holy place where only the priests are allowed to go when he went back to return the money. All I did was apply a little logic to the interpreted Word of God.
So the Word of God is telling us that there WILL be another temple on the temple mount that will have not only a HOLY PLACE but a HOLY OF HOLIES place where satan/the antichrist will sit and declare himself to be God on the temple mount.
So if you want to argue your point you need to argue your point with Mr. Strong who is now dead and the 200 or so ancient scholars who's Greek Language research and their interpretation of the ancient Greek language used at the time of Christ who are also dead and lastly you can argue your point with Christ who made the prediction.
You are doubt casting because scripture proves you wrong and that is prideful and a lack of a humbleness within you.
So lets turn the table. Prove the scripture interpretation wrong with scripture, but remember I will pick apart every single word in any verse you provide to see if what you say about that scripture is true or not.
I believe in what the Bible says and I never said anything about ME PREDICTING ANYTHING. All we are able to do is to base what we think or believe based on what the word of God says or doesn't say. So when I speak on or about any scripture it is based on what the Word of God says and my research of that word. So with that in mind the word "temple" in 2 Thess 2:4 is talking about the Holy place within the temple building which was the temple standing during the days of Christ, In the Strong's #3485 the definition given for the word "temple" is Temple or Shrine. In the Thayre's Greek English Lexicon #3485 the word "temple" is speaking of a real temple building. The example given is that Judas who was desperation entered the Holy place where only the priests are allowed to go when he went back to return the money. All I did was apply a little logic to the interpreted Word of God.
So the Word of God is telling us that there WILL be another temple on the temple mount that will have not only a HOLY PLACE but a HOLY OF HOLIES place where satan/the antichrist will sit and declare himself to be God on the temple mount.
So if you want to argue your point you need to argue your point with Mr. Strong who is now dead and the 200 or so ancient scholars who's Greek Language research and their interpretation of the ancient Greek language used at the time of Christ who are also dead and lastly you can argue your point with Christ who made the prediction.
You are doubt casting because scripture proves you wrong and that is prideful and a lack of a humbleness within you.
So lets turn the table. Prove the scripture interpretation wrong with scripture, but remember I will pick apart every single word in any verse you provide to see if what you say about that scripture is true or not.
The Problem with the Futurist View:
It is contingent that the 3rd temple must be built in Jerusalem (w/ fist banging on table). But Paul in 2 Thess 2 does not say this. Man has stipulated this.
For example Moses Tabernacle was not in Jerusalem until King David. Instead Moses Tabernacle would go where ever God's people went.
The reason why the 1st and 2nd Temple had to be on the temple mount In Jerusalem was to fulfill the prophetic foreshadowing of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his only son Isaac on the same mount. But once Christ was sacrificed and rose again - thus fulfilling this prophecy and promise - the requirement for a temple in Jerusalem was no more. This is why they have not had a temple for 2000 yrs. Thus the 3rd literal temple does not have to be in Jerusalem.
So when Christ rose, ascended into heaven, and poured out the Holy Spirit on God's people they left Jerusalem and went out into the whole world. With Rome being the center of the world.
So there is biblical justification that the 3rd temple could be elsewhere like in Rome, a place where God's people went to. Now I do not insist that the 3rd temple must be in Rome, but Futurists often accuse me that I insist upon this. This is because they do not understand the proper approach. When interpreting prophesy you have to consider and test all things, and hold fast to what is good.
Most Futurists refuse to even consider or test if prophesy fulfillment of the different parts of revelation has already occurred. They are so certain the answer is no the refuse to even do their homework on this. They have an out right refusal, and an almost arrogance, to not test or consider the different possibilities!!!
Now these prophesies of another 3rd temple with different levels of holiness separated by partitions or veils just like the holy place, and the holy of holies, that is fulfilled by the Vatican.
The Vatican also has a person, claiming himself to be God (Holy Father) residing in the temple, which is on a temple mount... this is all fulfilled in the pope who resided at St. Peter's Basiclica and the Sistine Chapel and the apostolic palace (which is The Vatican). The pope has also performed false miracles, and has approved false signs and wonders. St. Peters is also called “the Temple of the Vatican”, with shrines and everything a temple has including sacrifices and sacrificial offerings and priests, and burning incense...no detail is left unfulfilled.
The Futurist view has so many man-made stipulations that no prophesy could ever be fulfilled thus why it all must still be to the future.
Stipulation 1) the man of lawlessness can only be this
Stipulation 2) the tribulation can only last that long
Stipulation 3) the 3rd temple must be located exactly here
Stipulation 4) the mark of the beast has not come yet, and that we know as fact.
…
The futurist view pigeonholes itself with so many restrictions and stipulations that fulfillment of its predictions is impossible.
Please refresh yourself on what “pigeonholing yourself” means.
By pigeonholing yourself t is meant that you put yourself in a category or field and that you are making no attempts to break free of it. You should never pigeonhole yourself. When you do you instantly restrict your own development.
It is contingent that the 3rd temple must be built in Jerusalem (w/ fist banging on table). But Paul in 2 Thess 2 does not say this. Man has stipulated this.
For example Moses Tabernacle was not in Jerusalem until King David. Instead Moses Tabernacle would go where ever God's people went.
The reason why the 1st and 2nd Temple had to be on the temple mount In Jerusalem was to fulfill the prophetic foreshadowing of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his only son Isaac on the same mount. But once Christ was sacrificed and rose again - thus fulfilling this prophecy and promise - the requirement for a temple in Jerusalem was no more. This is why they have not had a temple for 2000 yrs. Thus the 3rd literal temple does not have to be in Jerusalem.
So when Christ rose, ascended into heaven, and poured out the Holy Spirit on God's people they left Jerusalem and went out into the whole world. With Rome being the center of the world.
So there is biblical justification that the 3rd temple could be elsewhere like in Rome, a place where God's people went to. Now I do not insist that the 3rd temple must be in Rome, but Futurists often accuse me that I insist upon this. This is because they do not understand the proper approach. When interpreting prophesy you have to consider and test all things, and hold fast to what is good.
Most Futurists refuse to even consider or test if prophesy fulfillment of the different parts of revelation has already occurred. They are so certain the answer is no the refuse to even do their homework on this. They have an out right refusal, and an almost arrogance, to not test or consider the different possibilities!!!
Now these prophesies of another 3rd temple with different levels of holiness separated by partitions or veils just like the holy place, and the holy of holies, that is fulfilled by the Vatican.
The Vatican also has a person, claiming himself to be God (Holy Father) residing in the temple, which is on a temple mount... this is all fulfilled in the pope who resided at St. Peter's Basiclica and the Sistine Chapel and the apostolic palace (which is The Vatican). The pope has also performed false miracles, and has approved false signs and wonders. St. Peters is also called “the Temple of the Vatican”, with shrines and everything a temple has including sacrifices and sacrificial offerings and priests, and burning incense...no detail is left unfulfilled.
The Futurist view has so many man-made stipulations that no prophesy could ever be fulfilled thus why it all must still be to the future.
Stipulation 1) the man of lawlessness can only be this
Stipulation 2) the tribulation can only last that long
Stipulation 3) the 3rd temple must be located exactly here
Stipulation 4) the mark of the beast has not come yet, and that we know as fact.
…
The futurist view pigeonholes itself with so many restrictions and stipulations that fulfillment of its predictions is impossible.
Please refresh yourself on what “pigeonholing yourself” means.
By pigeonholing yourself t is meant that you put yourself in a category or field and that you are making no attempts to break free of it. You should never pigeonhole yourself. When you do you instantly restrict your own development.
The Problem with the Futurist View:
So now you are accusing God of pigeonholing. Yes that is right. By accusing me of pigeonholing you are accussing God of pigeonholing. I had to look up the meaning of Pigeonholing ad here is what I found, "assign to a particular category or class, especially in a manner that is too rigid or exclusive" and trust me when I say I am not at all offended at the accusation. In fact I am complimented by your accusation. Why, you might ask. Because God is soooooo rigid about His rules, statutes, commands and laws that if you don't follow them explicitly you will suffer the consequences for not following the instructions of God to the tee. Scripture is full of example of folks who didn't follow Gods instruction explicitly and many of them were killed on the spot by God.
2Sa 6:6 And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.
2Sa 6:7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
No matter how innocently it was done, touching the ark was in direct violation of God’s law and was to result in death. This was a means of preserving the sense of God’s holiness and the fear of drawing near to Him without appropriate preparation.
1Ch 21:7 And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel.
1Ch 21:8 And David said unto God, I have sinned greatly, because I have done this thing: but now, I beseech thee, do away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.
1Ch 21:9 And the LORD spake unto Gad, David's seer, saying,
1Ch 21:10 Go and tell David, saying, Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things: choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee.
1Ch 21:11 So Gad came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee
1Ch 21:12 Either three years' famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; or else three days the sword of the LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel. Now therefore advise thyself what word I shall bring again to him that sent me.
1Ch 21:13 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall now into the hand of the LORD; for very great are his mercies: but let me not fall into the hand of man.
1Ch 21:14 So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men.
1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite
We don't know how many Israelites were killed during the slaughter from the Lord but is was massive.
Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
Lev 10:2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.
Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Sure is a good thing God doesn't react like that anymore because maybe you might be dead because of doubt casting on the very Word of God.
Act 5:7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
Act 5:8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Act 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Act 5:10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
There is no give or take when it comes to the Word of God and He has proven by His Word that He stands firm on all of His rules, statutes, commands and laws and the very same applies to every single word spoken in the Word of God.
The Bible doesn't ever in any way "lead us to believe this or that", "indicate anything about any biblical subject", "no flexibility" and there is no such a thing as "could be or would be". If it is not written in the Word of God then it is not. Today folks have made understanding the message of both the Old and New Testaments soo much more complicated then God ever intended it to be. The NKJV is set at a 5th to a 7th grade level of comprehension level and the KJV is set to a 12th grade level of comprehension.
The Word of God was ment to be simple to understand with the help of the Holy Spirit but sooo many have made it complicated just like the religious leaders in the days of Christ. They made it a very burdensome and complicated path to fallow which is why Christ constantly had conflicts with the religious leadership of His day.
Scripture either means what it says exactly or it doesn't mean anything at all. This is why I always use scripture to prove my point and if you want to argue that the interpretation of a scripture is wrong or might be saying something different then you need to provide scripture that proves otherwise. Because with out that scripture I will never change my interpretation of any given scripture. Many times folks will quote scriptures to me and most of the time after I have researched each word in the quote I find it is a misinterpreted quote and doesn't prove a thing.
I even challenged you to come back with scripture but you just came back with a personal attack with somebody else's opinion about
The Problem with the Futurist View:
LOL man don't you know we are commanded to research and know everything about every word and every subject written in the Word of God??? What world do you live on anyways?? There is no such a thing as a "Problem with the Futurist View" in the Bible because we are commanded to know what the future holds for us. We are commanded to live day by day but know what our future as that body of Christ is. [/QUOTE]
So instead of defending your futurist view, or instead of testing and critically challenging what I proposed, you did neither. You instead went off on a tangent, and wrote a diatribe condemning me.
I will pray for you massorite.
Please don't condemn me, instead forgive me. And also let us pray that we will both be brothers in Heaven.
So now you are accusing God of pigeonholing. Yes that is right. By accusing me of pigeonholing you are accussing God of pigeonholing. I had to look up the meaning of Pigeonholing ad here is what I found, "assign to a particular category or class, especially in a manner that is too rigid or exclusive" and trust me when I say I am not at all offended at the accusation. In fact I am complimented by your accusation. Why, you might ask. Because God is soooooo rigid about His rules, statutes, commands and laws that if you don't follow them explicitly you will suffer the consequences for not following the instructions of God to the tee. Scripture is full of example of folks who didn't follow Gods instruction explicitly and many of them were killed on the spot by God.
2Sa 6:6 And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.
2Sa 6:7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
No matter how innocently it was done, touching the ark was in direct violation of God’s law and was to result in death. This was a means of preserving the sense of God’s holiness and the fear of drawing near to Him without appropriate preparation.
1Ch 21:7 And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel.
1Ch 21:8 And David said unto God, I have sinned greatly, because I have done this thing: but now, I beseech thee, do away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.
1Ch 21:9 And the LORD spake unto Gad, David's seer, saying,
1Ch 21:10 Go and tell David, saying, Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things: choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee.
1Ch 21:11 So Gad came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee
1Ch 21:12 Either three years' famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; or else three days the sword of the LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel. Now therefore advise thyself what word I shall bring again to him that sent me.
1Ch 21:13 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall now into the hand of the LORD; for very great are his mercies: but let me not fall into the hand of man.
1Ch 21:14 So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men.
1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite
We don't know how many Israelites were killed during the slaughter from the Lord but is was massive.
Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
Lev 10:2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.
Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Sure is a good thing God doesn't react like that anymore because maybe you might be dead because of doubt casting on the very Word of God.
Act 5:7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
Act 5:8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Act 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Act 5:10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
There is no give or take when it comes to the Word of God and He has proven by His Word that He stands firm on all of His rules, statutes, commands and laws and the very same applies to every single word spoken in the Word of God.
The Bible doesn't ever in any way "lead us to believe this or that", "indicate anything about any biblical subject", "no flexibility" and there is no such a thing as "could be or would be". If it is not written in the Word of God then it is not. Today folks have made understanding the message of both the Old and New Testaments soo much more complicated then God ever intended it to be. The NKJV is set at a 5th to a 7th grade level of comprehension level and the KJV is set to a 12th grade level of comprehension.
The Word of God was ment to be simple to understand with the help of the Holy Spirit but sooo many have made it complicated just like the religious leaders in the days of Christ. They made it a very burdensome and complicated path to fallow which is why Christ constantly had conflicts with the religious leadership of His day.
Scripture either means what it says exactly or it doesn't mean anything at all. This is why I always use scripture to prove my point and if you want to argue that the interpretation of a scripture is wrong or might be saying something different then you need to provide scripture that proves otherwise. Because with out that scripture I will never change my interpretation of any given scripture. Many times folks will quote scriptures to me and most of the time after I have researched each word in the quote I find it is a misinterpreted quote and doesn't prove a thing.
I even challenged you to come back with scripture but you just came back with a personal attack with somebody else's opinion about
The Problem with the Futurist View:
LOL man don't you know we are commanded to research and know everything about every word and every subject written in the Word of God??? What world do you live on anyways?? There is no such a thing as a "Problem with the Futurist View" in the Bible because we are commanded to know what the future holds for us. We are commanded to live day by day but know what our future as that body of Christ is. [/QUOTE]
So instead of defending your futurist view, or instead of testing and critically challenging what I proposed, you did neither. You instead went off on a tangent, and wrote a diatribe condemning me.
I will pray for you massorite.
Please don't condemn me, instead forgive me. And also let us pray that we will both be brothers in Heaven.
This is TOTALLY FALSE. Jesus cannot be the temple made without hands in this context. The context was the crucifixion of Christ and His resurrection.
JOHN 2:18-22: THE CRUCIFIXION AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
But there will be a literal temple in Jerusalem in the future, and it will be desecrated by the Antichrist.
JOHN 2:18-22: THE CRUCIFIXION AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
But there will be a literal temple in Jerusalem in the future, and it will be desecrated by the Antichrist.
You say there must be a literal [3rd] temple in Jerusalem in the future. But you do not explain why it must be in Jerusalem.
In POST #35 I explain why this literal [3rd] temple can be in a different city such as Rome. I provide evidence as to why the Vatican fits the prophesy for this literal [3rd] temple.
Can you offer questions to test and critically challenge my proposal to see if it stands the test? This is what I am looking for.
In POST #35 I explain why this literal [3rd] temple can be in a different city such as Rome. I provide evidence as to why the Vatican fits the prophesy for this literal [3rd] temple.
Can you offer questions to test and critically challenge my proposal to see if it stands the test? This is what I am looking for.