This reflects something going on in your head, not mine. I see sabbath observance as something ineffectual for working righteousness.
10 Concise Reasons to Remember the Sabbath
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This reflects something going on in your head, not mine. I see sabbath observance as something ineffectual for working righteousness.
I sat under this teaching for around 6 months and the Sabbath was the central message in every single sermon. It was as though none of the other commandments matter, only the fourth commandment was important. Yes they tried to convince me that everyone who worships on a Sunday has received the mark of the Beast.The teachings of Ellen White and the SDA church are problematic to say the least. Look what they teach about the Sabbath, Sunday worship and the mark of the beast!
http://www.nonsda.org/study8.shtml
It's a shame they follow Ellen White, I believe she was a witch who dabbled in the Occult, to claim that she met Jesus and He gave her all of this extra Biblical revelation.
That's because sabbath observance is their righteousness, not Christ.
what we need to focus on is Jesus Christ crucified risen and glorified.
without that it really doesn't matter how carefully anyone observes any day. the pharisees were incredibly scrupulous in keeping themselves from working on sabbaths, but they were found at fault because of unbelief.
the 8th day is the day males were to be circumcised. if it landed on a sabbath the command to circumcise took precedence over sabbath observation. circumcision is a symbol of Christ crucified, and could be argued for in exactly the same way OP argues for sabbath observation. However we know that in Christ it is not physical circumcision that is required but spiritual, and we know that only He can perform this, that it is not done with human effort.
interesting IMO
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
yeah I get that
I guess what I had in mind, are those who pronounce judgements like you are not saved or you hate Jews and similar, because you don't do what they say God tells you to do, even though He actuallys says no such thing and you have to really distort scripture to make it seem He did say it, have the same judgement coming back (phew..run on sentence)
and no it's not a good thing..which is why people ought to think twice or maybe thrice before posting those judgements
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
well put on your reading glasses, cause the only person calling names and slandering other posters is the op
you are not suffering because you want to keep the Sabbath
I'll tell you who is actually suffering...those who are martyred in countries where it is a crime to be a Christian
"...Notice Acts 17:2: “And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath daysreasoned with them out of the scriptures.” This is now 20 years after Christ died, and we see that it was still Paul’s custom to keep the Sabbath, just as it was Christ’s custom (Luke 4:16).
Over 10 years later, Paul wrote the epistle to the Hebrews. In the first few verses of chapter 4, after discussing the spiritual “rest” this world will enjoy after Jesus Christ returns, Paul then explains how our weekly Sabbath observance pictures that millennial rest. “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God,” Paul wrote (verse 9). The Greek word for rest is sabbatismos, which simply means “keeping of the Sabbath.” Most Bible margins even point this out.
Had the seventh-day Sabbath been changed to Sunday, wouldn’t Paul have explained this to, of all people, the Hebrews in Judea? Instead, Paul reminded them that their weekly Sabbath observance was a very type of the millennial rest to come upon the entire world." Source
But What About Sunday?
While the seventh-day Sabbath is mentioned 60 times in the New Testament, the first day of the week, Sunday, is mentioned only eight times!
In 1 Corinthians 16:1-4, the disciples were told by Paul to take up a “collection for the saints” on the first day of the week. Some use this not only to show we should go to church on Sunday, but also that we should take up a collection of money each week. In fact, Romans 15:25-28 explain that this special collection was taken for the saints in Jerusalem because they were extremely poor. Furthermore, Paul offered to help carry the collection in verse 4. So this collection was primarily food and supplies, not money. And it was for the saints in Jerusalem, not the Church. Furthermore, they were told to gather it on Sunday. So, far from being a command to worship God on Sunday, Paul was actually instructing them to gather up food and supplies for the Jerusalem brethren on Sunday, after the Sabbath had ended.
Acts 20:7 has another reference to the first day of the week. In that passage, the disciples assembled together for a meal—to “break bread.” Since God begins and ends each day at sunset (rather than midnight), this dinner actually took place after sunset on Saturday night—the beginning of the first day of the week. Paul preached unto them until midnight, the verse says. At the break of day, on Sunday, Paul left on foot, Scripture says, and sailed for Assos (verse 13).
Read the entire passage. Nothing in it commands a weekly Sunday observance. Paul was merely taking advantage of his last opportunity to meet with and speak to the brethren at Troas—and it was actually on Saturday night.
Nailed to the Cross?
Many try to make Colossians 2:16-17 say the New Testament Church did away with the Sabbath. It reads, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.” The word judge means “to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong” (Thayer’s Lexicon). Also notice the word “is” at the end of verse 17. It’s in italics, which means it was not in the original Greek text—it was added by translators.
Understand the meaning! “Let no man judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days … but the body of Christ.” In other words, don’t let a man determine what is right or wrong about which days to observe. These matters should be determined by the Body of Christ—or the Church (see 1 Corinthians 12:27). And the Church establishes doctrine by what is inspired in the holy Word of God. The Bible, as we have seen, plainly teaches that we should observe the Sabbath.
And let’s not overlook this additional thought from Colossians 2:17: “Which are a shadow of things to come ….” You cannot separate the shadow from its object. A shadow from a tree, for example, always leads you right to the tree. If you take away the shadow, there is no tree.
Why would you take away the Sabbath if it is a shadow of things to come—God’s millennial rest?
Yet, that is exactly what many do. Newer Bible translations, for example, make the shadow sound negative or bad. All that matters is Christ, they say. Never mind His example—just believe in Him.
One other important point to make regarding this passage is that it was written to the Gentiles at Colosse (see Colossians 2:13). Before coming into God’s Church, the Gentiles had never observed God’s Sabbath command. Yet Paul tells them to not let any man judge them with respect to the Sabbath or holy days.
Why would he write something like that if these people had never kept those days in the first place?
Over 10 years later, Paul wrote the epistle to the Hebrews. In the first few verses of chapter 4, after discussing the spiritual “rest” this world will enjoy after Jesus Christ returns, Paul then explains how our weekly Sabbath observance pictures that millennial rest. “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God,” Paul wrote (verse 9). The Greek word for rest is sabbatismos, which simply means “keeping of the Sabbath.” Most Bible margins even point this out.
Had the seventh-day Sabbath been changed to Sunday, wouldn’t Paul have explained this to, of all people, the Hebrews in Judea? Instead, Paul reminded them that their weekly Sabbath observance was a very type of the millennial rest to come upon the entire world." Source
But What About Sunday?
While the seventh-day Sabbath is mentioned 60 times in the New Testament, the first day of the week, Sunday, is mentioned only eight times!
In 1 Corinthians 16:1-4, the disciples were told by Paul to take up a “collection for the saints” on the first day of the week. Some use this not only to show we should go to church on Sunday, but also that we should take up a collection of money each week. In fact, Romans 15:25-28 explain that this special collection was taken for the saints in Jerusalem because they were extremely poor. Furthermore, Paul offered to help carry the collection in verse 4. So this collection was primarily food and supplies, not money. And it was for the saints in Jerusalem, not the Church. Furthermore, they were told to gather it on Sunday. So, far from being a command to worship God on Sunday, Paul was actually instructing them to gather up food and supplies for the Jerusalem brethren on Sunday, after the Sabbath had ended.
Acts 20:7 has another reference to the first day of the week. In that passage, the disciples assembled together for a meal—to “break bread.” Since God begins and ends each day at sunset (rather than midnight), this dinner actually took place after sunset on Saturday night—the beginning of the first day of the week. Paul preached unto them until midnight, the verse says. At the break of day, on Sunday, Paul left on foot, Scripture says, and sailed for Assos (verse 13).
Read the entire passage. Nothing in it commands a weekly Sunday observance. Paul was merely taking advantage of his last opportunity to meet with and speak to the brethren at Troas—and it was actually on Saturday night.
Nailed to the Cross?
Many try to make Colossians 2:16-17 say the New Testament Church did away with the Sabbath. It reads, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.” The word judge means “to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong” (Thayer’s Lexicon). Also notice the word “is” at the end of verse 17. It’s in italics, which means it was not in the original Greek text—it was added by translators.
Understand the meaning! “Let no man judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days … but the body of Christ.” In other words, don’t let a man determine what is right or wrong about which days to observe. These matters should be determined by the Body of Christ—or the Church (see 1 Corinthians 12:27). And the Church establishes doctrine by what is inspired in the holy Word of God. The Bible, as we have seen, plainly teaches that we should observe the Sabbath.
And let’s not overlook this additional thought from Colossians 2:17: “Which are a shadow of things to come ….” You cannot separate the shadow from its object. A shadow from a tree, for example, always leads you right to the tree. If you take away the shadow, there is no tree.
Why would you take away the Sabbath if it is a shadow of things to come—God’s millennial rest?
Yet, that is exactly what many do. Newer Bible translations, for example, make the shadow sound negative or bad. All that matters is Christ, they say. Never mind His example—just believe in Him.
One other important point to make regarding this passage is that it was written to the Gentiles at Colosse (see Colossians 2:13). Before coming into God’s Church, the Gentiles had never observed God’s Sabbath command. Yet Paul tells them to not let any man judge them with respect to the Sabbath or holy days.
Why would he write something like that if these people had never kept those days in the first place?
Fascinating translation you are using here. I must respectfully disagree with this teaching.
So if I "Deny myself", accept who I truly am, and follow the instructions created by the Word which became Flesh as He tells me to do, then I have lost connection with the Head.
But if I reject His instruction, and follow the instructions of this religion or that religion, then I have NOT lost connection with the Head?
So if I submit myself to the same "Walk" that Jesus walked, as the Bible says I should do, I am dishonoring God, I am engaging in a "False Humility". But if I reject the instructions God created for man, and follow this religion or that religion, I am accepted by the Head.
I think you might compare some translations here 7.
Col. 2:
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body (of) Christ. "Of" is an added word here. It wasn't in the original manuscript. If you take this "of" out as it was intended, it reads like this.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of Christ.
So let no man judge me but the body of Christ. Who is the Body of Christ? Jesus is the Head, and Abraham, Moses, Jeremiah, Paul, Zechariahs, David, Samuel, Nathan, Peter. Are these all not the "body of Christ"?
If Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, created something Holy, and I Glorify Him by also accepting His creation as Holy, should I let some religious man or voice of a serpent,(As Eve illustrated) convince me otherwise? His Works are shadows of things to come, man's religious traditions are "Shadows of nothing".
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using
after the commandments and doctrines of men?So I must respectfully disagree with your translation, and your understanding of these scriptures. God's Sabbaths, Passover, Feast of Unleavened bread, etc., these are the Feasts of the Word which became Flesh, they are not man made commandments or doctrines.
Lev. 23:
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
So how is it that religious men preach that His Sabbaths are "Commandments and Doctrines" of men, when Jesus, as the Word, says they are His?
I never understood how religious man could use this chapter to promote the rejection of the Christ's Sabbath and Holy Days, given what it actually says, and given the rest of the Bible.
I believe these scriptures promote understanding the difference between "Tradition of man", "Rudiments of the World" and Instructions and Commandments of God.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
God foresaw the doctrines of men seeking to overshadow his true word centuries ago. People deny Sabbath because they oppose anything related to Judaism. People deny Sabbath because.....
People worship God, revere Christ as savior, and argue that God's words compiled over centuries and augmented by votes carried by men say what they now need it to say regardless of what is in print. Or what is the old testament foundation upon which the new was structured.
God foresaw that too. In the end, when it is all said, and said again, we'll find out what's what when we face God and give account. Me included of course. Just putting that out there so that the wonders of God don't point that out spitefully as is their method here.
James 1
2.Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, 3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
People worship God, revere Christ as savior, and argue that God's words compiled over centuries and augmented by votes carried by men say what they now need it to say regardless of what is in print. Or what is the old testament foundation upon which the new was structured.
God foresaw that too. In the end, when it is all said, and said again, we'll find out what's what when we face God and give account. Me included of course. Just putting that out there so that the wonders of God don't point that out spitefully as is their method here.
James 1
2.Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, 3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
I really do not care if someone wishes to go to church on Saturday or Sunday
what I do care about, is the convoluted presentation of scripture and the mashup of old and new testaments that are presented to make the case for Sabbath keeping
and worse, the decidedly antagonistic attitude of many Sabbath keepers towards those who believe that Sabbath keeping is not required
insisting that Gentiles are a part of a covenant that was made with the Israelites and which is actually replaced by the covenant of the blood of Christ for forgiveness of sins, is the equivalent of saying that some unknown person is now responsible for your mortgage payment and they are required to pay for it even though they never signed on for the loan in the first place
there is no scripture that states anywhere that Christians follow OT covenant and that is why we now have NEW covenant
perhaps the error of Sabbath keepers lies in a bad understanding of the word covenant or perhaps they feel they just need to do a little something besides putting their faith in Christ or maybe it is both. Christians were never commanded to keep the Sabbath and there are no Christians in the OT.
there is no more sacrifice because Jesus is the final sacrifice...the Lamb of God
an even worse trespass on salvation made by many Sabbath keepers is saying that unless you worship on their day their way, you are not saved. some take it so far as to say you are going to hell, you are a blasphemer, you hate the Jews etc etc...all of which are utterly fabricated and nonsensical claims displaying a vigorous misappropriation of scripture as well as an indoctrination of Jewish religious sect behavior as displayed towards Christ Himself when He walked the earth
it would seem to me and perhaps others, that the first commandment would take precedence over any other, but no, the 4th commandment is attested to as proof of salvation
the source for 'proof' of Sabbath worship being the consideration for 'proof' of salvation consists of rationalizations achieved through misinterpreted scripture and a mashup of old and new testaments with a good sprinkling of ignorance of what a covenant actually is.
if a covenant is between two parties it is never between an all inclusive body of people who never signed on in the first place and never made covenant to begin with
God covenanted with the Israelites to be His chosen people/
God has covenanted with whosoever will believe in Christ His Son, as the ONLY requirement for salvation.
apparently, this is not good enough for Sabbath keepers and they need to do something THEY require because faith, and including the faith of Abraham...pre the covenant on Mt Sinai....is not enough
Abraham had a covenant with God also that God made with Abraham PRIOR to the one He made with all of Israel
Sabbath keepers have badly misunderstood that a day cannot and does not create salvation
why would have Christ had to die if the simple act of observing one day a week create salvation?
the entire system of sacrifice was never able to actually remove sin...this is biblical...it's in the Bible Hebrews 10:4..and was meant as a foreshadow of the only blood that can remove sin.
again, it has been suggested that responders to this Sabbath keepers op are blasphemers, anti-Semites and a few other slurs, but yet NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS SUGGESTED ANY SUCH THING...NOT ONE PERSON HAS SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY CLOSE TO SUCH THINGS...yet the op has found it convenient to attempt to say we have
it needs to be understood that this is a common practice of Sabbath keepers and part and package of their belief system
what I do care about, is the convoluted presentation of scripture and the mashup of old and new testaments that are presented to make the case for Sabbath keeping
and worse, the decidedly antagonistic attitude of many Sabbath keepers towards those who believe that Sabbath keeping is not required
insisting that Gentiles are a part of a covenant that was made with the Israelites and which is actually replaced by the covenant of the blood of Christ for forgiveness of sins, is the equivalent of saying that some unknown person is now responsible for your mortgage payment and they are required to pay for it even though they never signed on for the loan in the first place
there is no scripture that states anywhere that Christians follow OT covenant and that is why we now have NEW covenant
perhaps the error of Sabbath keepers lies in a bad understanding of the word covenant or perhaps they feel they just need to do a little something besides putting their faith in Christ or maybe it is both. Christians were never commanded to keep the Sabbath and there are no Christians in the OT.
there is no more sacrifice because Jesus is the final sacrifice...the Lamb of God
an even worse trespass on salvation made by many Sabbath keepers is saying that unless you worship on their day their way, you are not saved. some take it so far as to say you are going to hell, you are a blasphemer, you hate the Jews etc etc...all of which are utterly fabricated and nonsensical claims displaying a vigorous misappropriation of scripture as well as an indoctrination of Jewish religious sect behavior as displayed towards Christ Himself when He walked the earth
it would seem to me and perhaps others, that the first commandment would take precedence over any other, but no, the 4th commandment is attested to as proof of salvation
the source for 'proof' of Sabbath worship being the consideration for 'proof' of salvation consists of rationalizations achieved through misinterpreted scripture and a mashup of old and new testaments with a good sprinkling of ignorance of what a covenant actually is.
if a covenant is between two parties it is never between an all inclusive body of people who never signed on in the first place and never made covenant to begin with
God covenanted with the Israelites to be His chosen people/
God has covenanted with whosoever will believe in Christ His Son, as the ONLY requirement for salvation.
apparently, this is not good enough for Sabbath keepers and they need to do something THEY require because faith, and including the faith of Abraham...pre the covenant on Mt Sinai....is not enough
Abraham had a covenant with God also that God made with Abraham PRIOR to the one He made with all of Israel
Sabbath keepers have badly misunderstood that a day cannot and does not create salvation
why would have Christ had to die if the simple act of observing one day a week create salvation?
the entire system of sacrifice was never able to actually remove sin...this is biblical...it's in the Bible Hebrews 10:4..and was meant as a foreshadow of the only blood that can remove sin.
again, it has been suggested that responders to this Sabbath keepers op are blasphemers, anti-Semites and a few other slurs, but yet NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS SUGGESTED ANY SUCH THING...NOT ONE PERSON HAS SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY CLOSE TO SUCH THINGS...yet the op has found it convenient to attempt to say we have
it needs to be understood that this is a common practice of Sabbath keepers and part and package of their belief system
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
Fascinating translation you are using here. I must respectfully disagree with this teaching.
So if I "Deny myself", accept who I truly am, and follow the instructions created by the Word which became Flesh as He tells me to do, then I have lost connection with the Head.
But if I reject His instruction, and follow the instructions of this religion or that religion, then I have NOT lost connection with the Head?
So if I submit myself to the same "Walk" that Jesus walked, as the Bible says I should do, I am dishonoring God, I am engaging in a "False Humility". But if I reject the instructions God created for man, and follow this religion or that religion, I am accepted by the Head.
I think you might compare some translations here 7.
Col. 2:
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body (of) Christ. "Of" is an added word here. It wasn't in the original manuscript. If you take this "of" out as it was intended, it reads like this.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of Christ.
So let no man judge me but the body of Christ. Who is the Body of Christ? Jesus is the Head, and Abraham, Moses, Jeremiah, Paul, Zechariahs, David, Samuel, Nathan, Peter. Are these all not the "body of Christ"?
If Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, created something Holy, and I Glorify Him by also accepting His creation as Holy, should I let some religious man or voice of a serpent,(As Eve illustrated) convince me otherwise? His Works are shadows of things to come, man's religious traditions are "Shadows of nothing".
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using
So I must respectfully disagree with your translation, and your understanding of these scriptures. God's Sabbaths, Passover, Feast of Unleavened bread, etc., these are the Feasts of the Word which became Flesh, they are not man made commandments or doctrines.
Lev. 23:
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
So how is it that religious men preach that His Sabbaths are "Commandments and Doctrines" of men, when Jesus, as the Word, says they are His?
I never understood how religious man could use this chapter to promote the rejection of the Christ's Sabbath and Holy Days, given what it actually says, and given the rest of the Bible.
I believe these scriptures promote understanding the difference between "Tradition of man", "Rudiments of the World" and Instructions and Commandments of God.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
interesting
I find you take liberty with the word and insert your own ideas so that's fine
I've studied up on Sabbath keepers enough to know that the damage they have done to Colossians in their eagerness to make converts, leaves no doubt NO translation will suffice with regards to leading anyone out of the tunnel of Sabbath keeping
I see that you are also adept at 'translating' what you think someone else, in this case myself, may have posted
that's more than a little annoying and really untruthful
I don't have conversations with people that do that sort of thing
it's a habit of some here to do that but it's not proof of anything other than a disregard for what was actually said with apparent desire to 'win' at all costs
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
in response to studyman with regards to his interpretation of my post including these scriptures" from my post 32
in v. 19 of the above quote, it is Paul who wrote that those who observe rituals etc as requirements for salvation, as those who have lost connection with the head...meaning Christ
yet studyman says this:
obviously he is arguing with Paul here. yet, he tries to say he is disagreeing with me. straight scripture is posted and yet studyman takes the liberty of pretending I made that comment and he adds to it as well
and that is why I do not give time to this kind of twisting that some people do when they respond to a post
it's a waste of time
in v. 19 of the above quote, it is Paul who wrote that those who observe rituals etc as requirements for salvation, as those who have lost connection with the head...meaning Christ
yet studyman says this:
obviously he is arguing with Paul here. yet, he tries to say he is disagreeing with me. straight scripture is posted and yet studyman takes the liberty of pretending I made that comment and he adds to it as well
and that is why I do not give time to this kind of twisting that some people do when they respond to a post
it's a waste of time
One thing I've noticed is that Sabbath keepers are consistently judgmental towards those who disagree with their beliefs. I personally believe that all days are holy and clean, and I don't care or judge what they believe and choose to do. But they always seem to want to judge and condemn those who exercise freedom of conscience about sabbaths. Perhaps that is so because their own faith is weak and their consciences are easily defiled, which reminds me of this:
Unto the clean all things are clean: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing clean; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 1:15-16
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
that's true
I've been doing quite a bit of reading on different Sabbath keeper sites as well as sites that refute what they teach
the judgement is always there and it may be because they justify what they do from the OT and so the judging just comes naturally
there is that and also the foregoing ops presenting Sabbath keeping as an addendum to salvation, right in this forum
Jesus was a Sabbath Keeper. It's hard to deny or cover this Biblical Fact up. I understand you have no such tradition. I was pointing out that according to the Word's of the Author and Finisher of my Faith, His Sabbath and His Feasts are not "Rudiments of the World", nor are they "traditions of men", but rather, they were created for man by the Word which became Flesh. I don't believe Jesus walked in "Vain deceit" "tradition of man" or the "Rudiments of the World".
His Sabbaths are not Commandments of men, nor are they Doctrines of men. I'm not sure why many, who come in Christ's name, would work so hard to convince people that they are.
Jesus followed these instruction and was scorned and ridiculed by the Mainstream Preachers of His time, who considered the true Law and Prophets as "Heresy". He didn't let those Mainstream Preachers "Spoil Him through their Philosophy and vain deceit", and it seems Paul is warning us not to let the same thing happen to us.
I meant no disrespect or anything personal towards you. I am not attempting to "convert" anyone to anything. Just posting what seems like obvious Biblical Truth. I am not arguing against Paul's teaching, I just question your understanding of it.
Reminds me of the term, “ho·li·er-than-thou”
adjective
- characterized by an attitude of moral superiority.
The NIV here paints a different picture than most all other translations. There are some other new age translations which do the same.
I posted a translation which brings your translation into question, there are many more. I pointed out that the instructions of the Word which became Flesh are not "Vain deceit", are not "tradition of man" nor are they "Rudiments of the world", in my view, given what seems to be the original intent of these scriptures.
I posted what I believe, according to the many years of study, that Paul is warning against the common ancient religious practice of man creating their own righteousness while refusing to submit to God's Righteousness, while claiming His Kingdom as their own. Something that the Mainstream Preachers of their time was doing, at least this is what Paul and Jesus teaches.
If I agree with you, then Paul is calling the Sabbaths of God, "vain deceit" and "Rudiments of the World" and not from Christ. But if I listen to the Word, God's Sabbaths were created by the Word which became Flesh, for man, and are "shadows of things to Come". Some things have already come, but others have yet to be fulfilled. Like the 1000 year reign with Christ, which is what His weekly Sabbath foreshadows, in my understanding.
So I have the same choice Eve had. I can choose to follow the instructions of the most High God, or I can listen to other voices, many which use some of God's Word, and allow myself to be convinced that God's instructions are "Vain deceit", and were not created for my good.
Gen. 3:
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (you are saved)
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (reject God's Word) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
So even if this position is ridiculed by the mainstream religions of the land, I get the message Jesus has giving me through Paul.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body (is )of Christ.
We have a disagreement about scriptures. I'm OK with that.
Actually it is just the opposite for me. I am a human being which believes in ALL the Word's of the Author and finisher of my Faith. He said I am wicked above all things, and that I shouldn't even try to guide my own footsteps. Since I believe Him, and through His Word can see that He is always right, it just seems foolish for me to question His Judgment. I am a sinner, in need of guidance and Salvation. I believe there is no other place to find this but through Jesus, the Risen Christ. He said God's Law is for the sinner, that means His Law is for me. If He says something is Holy, then I don't believe a man should judge Him and His declaration as untrue. Just because other religious men don't believe His Word's, shouldn't influence me to do the same.
I believe this is the warning Paul gave to me in Colossians.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
I do not believe I am morally superior, but I do believe that the Judgments and Word's of the Christ are.