1 THESSALONIANS 4:13-18, WHY do people say that JESUS IS going to bring the dead in CHRIST when HE comes back here, In 1 Thess 4:13-18

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presidente

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#21
May 29, 2013
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#21
bud62 said:
AND IT tells you that the dead is RESURRECTED AND GO UP TO MEAT HIM IN THE CLOUDS, GOD bless as HE sees fit
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Are you saying you believe in the rapture? They that are alive and remain are caught up to meet the Lord in the air (it says air, not clouds, there in that passage.)

I believe the Lord will be descending when this happens, so that this will be fulfilled.
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
 
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Jackson123

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#22
Feb 6, 2014
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#22
bud62 said:
YOU SAID IT YOUR SELF, in VERSE 16 THAT THE LORD HIMSELF COMES DOWN , THEN GOD BRINGS THE SAINTS BACK TO HEAVEN ,NOT TO THE EARTH, GOD bless as HE sees fit
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Rev 20
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 
FlyingDove

FlyingDove

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#23
Dec 27, 2017
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#23
bud62 said:
It dose not say that HE is going to bring the dead in CHRIST back to earth when HE comes BACK.
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A different perspective

Pre-trib rapture - MEET IN THE AIR. After the trib when the Lord returns & his feet PHYSICALLY TOUCH Mt Olive. The raptured saints ARE WITH HIM

Matt 24:
29 (A) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(NOTE: Immediately after the tribulation)

1 Thes 4:
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(NOTE: The LORDS descends & the dead in Christ shall rise first)

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(NOTE: The the dead in Christ shall rise 1st. Then saints which are alive are caught up/raptured & MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR)

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(NOTE: Immediately AFTER the tribulation they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds)

Mk 13:
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
(NOTE: AFTER that tribulation)

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
(NOTE: After that tribulation they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds)

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
(NOTE: AFTER that tribulation they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds.)
(NOTE: The elect here are those still alive! How do we know this? Read the next 3 verses, the raptured saints are already wiuth him!)

Jude 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, """the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints"""

1 Thes 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, """at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints""".

Zec 14:5 On that day His feet will stand on Mt Olive. The Mt will split in 2 from east to west. Then the Lord your God will come, & """all the saints with Him"""

Now reread Thess the saints are caught-up/raptured & MEET the Lord IN THE AIR!

Now reread Zec 14:5 When the Lords FEET PHYSICALLY TOUCH onto Mt Olive >>> ALL the raptured saints THAT MET HIM IN THE ARE, ARE WITH HIM!)

Supporting verses:

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
(NOTE: Chamber is a reference to marriage chamber. Until the indignation/judgment/wrath/trib has past)

The Body/Bride of Christ, raptured saints, escape the tribulation wrath:

1 Thes 1:10 wait on his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivers us from the wrath to come
(NOTE: Jesus delivers believers from the wrath to come)

Rev 3:10 I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
(NOTE: Jesus delivers believers from the hour of temptation/wrath to come)

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
(NOTE: A promise to believers, they will be spared the hour of temptation/wrath coming to be exacted upon a Christ rejecting/unbelievinfg world)

OT Examples of God sparing the Righteous from coming wrath

Noah and his family were delivered from wrath before the flood came

The angels couldn’t destroy Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were clear

The great tribulation is called the time of Jacob’s/ISRAEL trouble (Jer 30:7)

The Body/Bride of Christ/Church is Caught-Up/raptured, delivered from wrath coming to a God rebellious world.
 
bud62

bud62

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washburn Tn
#24
presidente said:
Are you saying you believe in the rapture? They that are alive and remain are caught up to meet the Lord in the air (it says air, not clouds, there in that passage.)

I believe the Lord will be descending when this happens, so that this will be fulfilled.
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
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THE CLOUDS IS in the air, NO I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANYTHING THAT MAKES GODs WORD A LIE , INCUDING THE rapture , IT is not in the BIBLE , AND IT DOSE NOT LINE UP WITH THE BIBLE ETHER, JUST WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES FOR ME< IF GOD DON'T SHOW it to me in the BIBLE THEN THERE IS NO WAY I WON'T TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, Satan is working to DECEIVE US, GOD bless as HE sees fit
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Nov 23, 2013
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#25
bud62 said:
It dose not say that HE is going to bring the dead in CHRIST back to earth when HE comes BACK.
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Good thread, this is something that I’ve never understood. Thanks tor the topic this should be a learning experience for me.
 
bud62

bud62

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washburn Tn
#26
John146 said:
The Lord is bringing their souls back with Him to be reunited with their resurrected bodies that He will change to incorruptible, immortal bodies.
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THE BIBLE SAYS THAT HE COMES BACK BY HIMSELF< NO ONE IS WITH HIM< THEN HE RESURRECT THE DEAD< THEY DO NOT COME FROM BUT THEY GO TO HEAVEN, GOD bless as HE sees fit
 
FlyingDove

FlyingDove

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#27
Dec 27, 2017
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#27
bud62 said:
THE CLOUDS IS in the air, NO I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANYTHING THAT MAKES GODs WORD A LIE , INCUDING THE rapture , IT is not in the BIBLE , AND IT DOSE NOT LINE UP WITH THE BIBLE ETHER, JUST WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES FOR ME< IF GOD DON'T SHOW it to me in the BIBLE THEN THERE IS NO WAY I WON'T TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, Satan is working to DECEIVE US, GOD bless as HE sees fit
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The word rapture isn't in the Bible? Ever heard of the Vulgate?

The original Greek verb harpazo used by Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, in 1 Thes. 4:17, which is translated into English with the phrase "caught up." strongs 726 harpazo

The leading Greek Lexicon says that harpazo (strongs 726) means "snatch, seize, i.e., take suddenly and vehemently."

Latin Vulgate Bible: Jerome completed this translation in A.D. 400.

The English word was developed from the Latin which we use today known as "rapture."

17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul """rapiemur""" cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

This is the same meaning of the Latin word """rapiemur""" (rapture english) to seize, snatch, tear away."

KJ English term "caught up" translated from Greek verb "harpazo". It means to "snatch, seize, take suddenly."
 
bud62

bud62

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#28
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washburn Tn
#28
FlyingDove said:
The word rapture isn't in the Bible? Ever heard of the Vulgate?

The original Greek verb harpazo used by Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, in 1 Thes. 4:17, which is translated into English with the phrase "caught up." strongs 726 harpazo

The leading Greek Lexicon says that harpazo (strongs 726) means "snatch, seize, i.e., take suddenly and vehemently."
Latin Vulgate Bible: Jerome completed this translation in A.D. 400.

The English word was developed from the Latin which we use today known as "rapture."

17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul """rapiemur""" cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

This is the same meaning of the Latin word """rapiemur""" (rapture english) to seize, snatch, tear away."

KJ English term "caught up" translated from Greek verb "harpazo". It means to "snatch, seize, take suddenly."
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There ARE SOME OF THE TRANSLATIONS THAT IS NO GOOD AND COME FROM THE Jesuit & catholic EVEN
 
bud62

bud62

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washburn Tn
#30
John Derby inverted the pre Tribulation rapture the movement in which this teaching begin originated in small groups in England and Ireland about 1828 and by 1831 was part of the official teaching of the Plymouth brothers by 1860 the rapture had made its way to the United States GOD bless as HE sees fit
 
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presidente

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#31
May 29, 2013
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#31
bud62 said:
THE CLOUDS IS in the air, NO I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANYTHING THAT MAKES GODs WORD A LIE , INCUDING THE rapture , IT is not in the BIBLE , AND IT DOSE NOT LINE UP WITH THE BIBLE ETHER, JUST WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES FOR ME< IF GOD DON'T SHOW it to me in the BIBLE THEN THERE IS NO WAY I WON'T TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, Satan is working to DECEIVE US, GOD bless as HE sees fit
Click to expand...
The Bible says they that are alive and remain will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Do you believe that or not?

Rapture is derived from the Latin for caught up.
 
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presidente

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#32
May 29, 2013
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#32
bud62 said:
John Derby inverted the pre Tribulation rapture the movement in which this teaching begin originated in small groups in England and Ireland about 1828 and by 1831 was part of the official teaching of the Plymouth brothers by 1860 the rapture had made its way to the United States GOD bless as HE sees fit
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I read that George Mueller didn't accept it. Apparently, not all in that movement did at the time. Do all the open brethren believe in it? Did Darby promote it before the exclusive thing caught on?
 
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presidente

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#33
May 29, 2013
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#33
bud62 said:
THE BIBLE SAYS THAT HE COMES BACK BY HIMSELF
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Show me where the Bible says He comes back by Himself. I Thessalonians 4 doesn't say whether He is alone or with others. Another passage shows that He comes back with angels.
 
bud62

bud62

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washburn Tn
#34
presidente said:
I read that George Mueller didn't accept it. Apparently, not all in that movement did at the time. Do all the open brethren believe in it? Did Darby promote it before the exclusive thing caught on?
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The wicked is destroyed the brightness of HIS COMMING, THE wicked are gone first, AND this mean that the rapture is a false doctrine.
GOD bless as HE sees fit,
 
bud62

bud62

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washburn Tn
#35
presidente said:
Show me where the Bible says He comes back by Himself. I Thessalonians 4 doesn't say whether He is alone or with others. Another passage shows that He comes back with angels.
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1 THESS 4:16 TELLS YOU THAT HE COMES DOWN BY HIMSELF.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Nov 23, 2013
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#36
It seems to me that all the end times stuff is laid out for us in the Old Testament, where is the prophecy of the rapture in the Old Testament?
 
bud62

bud62

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#37
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washburn Tn
#37
bud62 said:
1 THESS 4:16 TELLS YOU THAT HE COMES DOWN BY HIMSELF.
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An
KJV1611 said:
It seems to me that all the end times stuff is laid out for us in the Old Testament, where is the prophecy of the rapture in the Old Testament?
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IT is not talt in neither ,BUT THE OLD HAS A HOLE LOT MORE IT FOR US TODAY THAN MOST PEOPLE KNOW. GOD bless as HE sees fit
 
FlyingDove

FlyingDove

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#38
Dec 27, 2017
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#38
bud62 said:
There is not going to be no rapture
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Rapture shadow

Revelations begins speaking to 7 churches. No mention of the church after Rev chapter 4 verse 1.

After Rev 4:1 you see the tribulation trumps & vials. No more mention of the Church/Bride til the end of the book of Rev.

Why? Because the CHURCH IS GONE! Raptured/Caught-up hither

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said," """Come up hither"""", and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter

The """come up hither""" is the Rapture.

Rev 4:1 a door was opened in heaven:
1 Thes 4:16 the Lord himself shall descend from heaven

Rev 4:1 a trumpet talking with me
1 Thes 4:16 voice of the archangel, & with the trump ofGod

Rev 4:1 """come up hither""":
1 Thes 4:17 """"caught up together"""", & so shall we ever be with the Lord
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#39
Apr 18, 2016
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#39
FlyingDove said:
Rapture shadow

Revelations begins speaking to 7 churches. No mention of the church after Rev chapter 4 verse 1.

After Rev 4:1 you see the tribulation trumps & vials. No more mention of the Church/Bride til the end of the book of Rev.

Why? Because the CHURCH IS GONE! Raptured/Caught-up hither

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said," """Come up hither"""", and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter

The """come up hither""" is the Rapture.

Rev 4:1 a door was opened in heaven:
1 Thes 4:16 the Lord himself shall descend from heaven

Rev 4:1 a trumpet talking with me
1 Thes 4:16 voice of the archangel, & with the trump ofGod

Rev 4:1 """come up hither""":
1 Thes 4:17 """"caught up together"""", & so shall we ever be with the Lord
Click to expand...
Rev 22:16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.”
 
bud62

bud62

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#40
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washburn Tn
#40
FlyingDove said:
Rapture shadow

Revelations begins speaking to 7 churches. No mention of the church after Rev chapter 4 verse 1.

After Rev 4:1 you see the tribulation trumps & vials. No more mention of the Church/Bride til the end of the book of Rev.

Why? Because the CHURCH IS GONE! Raptured/Caught-up hither

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said," """Come up hither"""", and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter

The """come up hither""" is the Rapture.

Rev 4:1 a door was opened in heaven:
1 Thes 4:16 the Lord himself shall descend from heaven

Rev 4:1 a trumpet talking with me
1 Thes 4:16 voice of the archangel, & with the trump ofGod

Rev 4:1 """come up hither""":
1 Thes 4:17 """"caught up together"""", & so shall we ever be with the Lord
Click to expand...
The senventh church MEANs the complete CHURCH all to the end of the WORLD,
 
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