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And here I was hoping that Pipp had discovered a way to add bacon to fruitcake. Sadness. :( To the actual thread topic... I fail in gentleness. Deal with it. :ROFL:

It seems to me that you have put the unsaved in a catch-22. They must first receive the agape of God's grace before they can partake of God's agape. I also think you're playing word games, and that your position would fall apart if you used plain English... think "common grace" versus "saving...

Revelation 14:10-11 say... they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever...

Thanks. I'm not sure I agree, but I appreciate the explanation and will consider it.

How completely unsurprising. You have exemplified well the whole point of this thread.

Again, Scripture does not answer my question. If you disagreed, it might. It does not even begin to explain why you found my post "boring" or why you chose to respond, marking it as such. So, please answer my question with an appropriate and relevant answer.

Which brings me back to my original question: From what are you saved? If it's merely the second death, and the second is much like the first, why would that concern you, since you would never know the difference?

So any time that you express an opinion contrary to that of another person, and they feel offended by it, they can rightly call you a 'lower-case-c christian'. The sword cuts both ways, dude. You certainly aren't innocent, and the sooner you grasp that, the sooner this foolish line of...

Wrong. What is two plus two? Once again, you refuse to answer a straightforward question with a straightforward answer.

As I stated before, I say what I mean. You are wasting your time asking me if I am saying something I didn't say. I don't need any authority to belittle bad ideas; I only need to have a reason to consider them bad.

I'm not going to defend statements I haven't made. Yes, death is punishment for sin, according to Scripture. I haven't said, or even hinted, otherwise. I'm trying to understand the mindset of those who think differently than I do on this matter.

Scripture is not an appropriate answer to my question, and your comment is not relevant either. Once again, why did you post a "Boring" icon on my post?

And this particular forum, ‘Bicker and Debate’. 😎

I'm not going to defend statements I haven't made.

A combination of several, many of which have already been cited in this thread. I agree, generally. Where Scripture is actually silent on a particular subject, we are wrong to make dogmatic statements and claim that we have scriptural backing. However, I don't believe this applies in this matter.

Really? So Paul is in hell then... Galatians 2:11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. Galatians 3:! You foolish Galatians! Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who...

Taken out of context.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I have no patience for such.

I disagree strongly, because your assertion is illogical. God doesn't call us to meaningless, purposeless activity merely for the sake of obedience, nor do I agree that obedience is the most important reason. We could hardly invest our lives, even unto death, for mere 'obedience' if there were...

I don't "believe" that what atheists claim is actually true, but I accept that what they believe is "truth" in their view. If I were consistent in applying your logic, I could reasonably ask, "Why would you believe what annihilationists say? They are liars." ;) The point is not whether either...