Loss of salvation???

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Ouch said:
LOL, yep we are born of flesh, if not we would not be able to be REBORN.

Did you know that is when we get our sins?
Click to expand...

We get the sin nature that causes sins at conception as the fallen genes from Adam's fall get passed down.

So how do you think we get rid of them?
Click to expand...

Remission of sins means the consequences for being a sinner.
Not that we stop being sinners.

This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance: that Christ Jesus came into the world ​
to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 1 Timothy 1:15​

Paul remained having a sin nature because the body we are born into remains defective.

What stops the sin nature from having full reign over us while alive on earth?
Is being controlled by the Spirit.

​
The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is capacity for life and prosperity/'inner peace.' Romans 8:6​
​
Carnal Christians walk in the flesh! Death.

Maturing in Christ is learning to be led and controlled by the Spirit into all truth!
It is not speaking in tongues which is a mindless experience!

But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others ​
than ten thousand words in a tongue. 1 Corinthians 14:19​

Speaking in tongues does not make anyone wiser.
When abused tongues actually keeps believers dumbed-down.
That is why Satan loves to push tongues as the way to live.

Tongues is to be like a security blanket intended for baby Christians.
Tongues offer no knowledge to be gained enabling one to mature with to overcome the enemies of God.

For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 1 Cor 14:14​
​
The longer we remain thinking like a baby the more we will keep turning to tongues for a solution.
It is a security blanket for the immature.

But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others ​
than ten thousand words in a tongue. 1 Corinthians 14:19​
​
​
Grace and truth....
 
sawdust said:
So stop it. Jesus and only Jesus, gets rid of our sin.
Click to expand...


Spiritually immature must take up their own cross, deny self, and keep growing in grace and knowledge to overcome their deficiency.
If they insist in not giving up what they want to wrongly believe, it will lead to becoming a spiritually retarded Christian.
 
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Ouch said:
I also don't see the word "ALL" I also don't see the word "SOME" or "FEW".

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

BUT I do see the words THEM THAT BELIEVE! Meaning "ALL" that belive or do you think the word "THEM" could mean some or a few?

I have no idea why you have not been filled.

In Acts 2:4, there hearts were right, they obeyed and waited.
Acts 8, 10 and 19 were all willing seakers they all obeyed and was baptrized in JESUS name.

GOD knew there hearts.

We both know you were baptized in JESUS titles not in HIS name, mabey start there.

Since no one was ever baptized that way!!

Let me tell you a true story, we went to a baptist church in Georga to pick up some pews. My pastor asked what was going on there as they were building a new church.

The guy said, we about 10 of us was seeking more of the lord, AND GOD FILLED THEM WITH THE HOLY GHOST and they knew because they were speaking in tougues.

They with joy went to the pastor who KICKED THEM OUT OF THE CHURCH, so they were builing a new one and called them selves baptistacostas.

Can you tell me why GOD filled them? Why then?

GOD knew there heart and filled them, they were seeking more.

What else do we also learn and know? GOD IS NOT ALLOWED IN SOME CHURCH'S.

I removed JESUS name and replace it with GOD so you would't get angry and me. Tamaoto tomaoto.
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How do you know it is the Holy Spirit when speaking in what you can not understand?

Hypnotized people speak in tongues. It is used to entertain the secular world.


How can you know it is the Holy Spirit?
When you do not even know what it is saying?​
 
.....


Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away;
whether there be tongues, they shall cease... 1 Corinthians 13:8a​

Tongues happen with vulnerable unbelievers!​
​
​
Xenoglossy, also written xenoglossia and sometimes also known as xenolalia, ​
is the supposedly paranormal phenomenon in which a person is able to speak, ​
write or understand a foreign language that they could not have acquired by ​
natural means. The term derives from the Ancient Greek xenos, "foreigner" and ​
glōssa, "tongue" or "language". ​
​
​
The term xenoglossy was first used by French parapsychologist Charles Richet in 1905. ​
​
409a2aa5791c86f8.jpg
​
Accounts of xenoglossy are found in the New Testament, and contemporary claims have been made by parapsychologists and reincarnation researchers such as Ian Stevenson Continued in Wikipedia​
​
 
How many here really know what they are talking about?

Rather than?

Think they know what they are talking about?

That is how the enemy gets into the camp.
 
Just_A__Follower said:
To be told what, that the word ALL is in Mark 16:17? I guess one could tell me a thousand times and it still would not be in there. Let’s look at the verse again:

“And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭ESV‬‬
The word ALL is still not in there.

I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins. I was baptized. Ive never spoke in tongues. Now you are saying I’m not saved because I don’t have the gift of tongues. So who is at fault for me not speaking tongues? I cannot do it on my own. So are you saying that God loves you more than me or did I not hold my face right when I came out the water?
I’m ok with not having that gift because I know I have a wayyyyyy bigger gift called salvation.

You would also think that if only tongues defines a truly saved person, then that person would also have the gift to heal. Would this not equate to way less sicknesses and death in the church full of tongue speaking healers vs lets say a Baptist church for example? Google that because yes some people(not me) have nothing better to do than study which denominations are healthier.
Click to expand...
This is the way it works. They seize on certain scriptures and apply them rigidly and literalistically. Everything is about the letter of these certain scriptures. Pretty much all pentecostal denominations are the same. But oneness takes it a step further, you must speak in tongues to be saved, or evidence you are saved. And, a very high standard of obedience is stressed. Everything revolves around the baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues.
But there's a problem. Maybe its because of the zeal they have for what they centre around, that other things cannot be seen
I myself believe in what they term the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and I believe the Spirit leads us into truth. So it surprising to me, that many who stress tongues and the baptism so much, do not understand much about the gospel message those do who don't think like them do.
I asked two of them in this thread what is the new covenant, neither of them could tell me. I would be surprised if either of them knew the bible says the ten commandments are the letter that kills the ministry of death and condemnation. And I've never met any pentecostal who understood Paul's message of grace, neither have I heard it preached in any pentecostal church I've ever been in. In fact, when I was at a pentecostal church when I was young, I did not understand the message of justification/sanctification. I just grew up believing if I did not perform nigh on perfect I would be cast into hell. Of course, it would be unfair to tar every church the same, but by and large they would be
Charles Spurgeon probably did not believe as they do, but personally speaking, I've never read of anyone who so well expounds on Paul's message. He was known as the prince of preachers, but according to oneness he could never have been saved.
Zeal is good, but not if it blinds you to properly understanding the whole message. And salvific belief is very clearly spelt out in the bible, it is not only hinted at. Hence they are wrong
 
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James456 said:
This is the way it works. They seize on certain scriptures and apply them rigidly and literalistically. Everything is about the letter of these certain scriptures. Pretty much all pentecostal denominations are the same. But oneness takes it a step further, you must speak in tongues to be saved, or evidence you are saved. And, a very high standard of obedience is stressed. Everything revolves around the baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues.
But there's a problem. Maybe its because of the zeal they have for what they centre around, that other things cannot be seen
I myself believe in what they term the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and I believe the Spirit leads us into truth. So it surprising to me, that many who stress tongues and the baptism so much, do not understand much about the gospel message those do who don't think like them do.
I asked two of them in this thread what is the new covenant, neither of them could tell me. I would be surprised if either of them knew the bible says the ten commandments are the letter that kills the ministry of death and condemnation. And I've never met any pentecostal who understood Paul's message of grace, neither have I heard it preached in any pentecostal church I've ever been in. In fact, when I was at a pentecostal church when I was young, I did not understand the message of justification/sanctification. I just grew up believing if I did not perform nigh on perfect I would be cast into hell. Of course, it would be unfair to tar every church the same, but by and large they would be
Charles Spurgeon probably did not believe as they do, but personally speaking, I've never read of anyone who so well expounds on Paul's message. He was known as the prince of preachers, but according to oneness he could never have been saved.
Zeal is good, but not if it blinds you to properly understanding the whole message. And salvific belief is very clearly spelt out in the bible, it is not only hinted at. Hence they are wrong
Click to expand...

Yes, and we could include water baptism as a sacrament, Sabbath law as necessary and TULIP as true in the mix of problematic beliefs.
I suspect that those who focus on miracles are not satisfied with walking by faith (2Cor. 5:7, Rom. 8:22-25).
I know that when I was an impressionable teenager their claims of proof caused me to doubt my faith.
By reading GW I learned that WB and SL are optional, MFW is true, Spirit baptism is manifested by love,
and the only two miracles requiring belief for salvation are creation and resurrection.
 
Genez said:
Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away;
whether there be tongues, they shall cease... 1 Corinthians 13:8a​
Tongues happen with vulnerable unbelievers!
Click to expand...

1Cor 13:8 says that knowledge will pass away.

There's an entire spectrum of tints and hues missing in black and white thinking.
 
Mem said:
1Cor 13:8 says that knowledge will pass away.

There's an entire spectrum of tints and hues missing in black and white thinking.
Click to expand...

Not simply knowledge.
Paul was covering gifts.

It was the "gift of knowledge." Not simply knowledge.
Believers would have a spontaneous knowledge about a matter.
 
Genez said:
.....

@Genez - We will get rid of our sins by getting our resurrection body.


Are you Yogi Berra?

Or, are you saying there will be no resurrection until we get rid of our sins?

........
Click to expand...
resurrection

The action or fact of restoring a dead person to life, or of being restored to life.

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Since we are born in sins, you are dead in sin.

Have you been resurrected?
 
sawdust said:
So stop it. Jesus and only Jesus, gets rid of our sin.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between lying willfully. and lying but not knowing it.

When you learn the difference you should REPENT.

It takes a man to admit his mistakes, correct himself say I'm sorry and move on.

You don't have to apologize to me, your statement wasn't about me.
 
Just_A__Follower said:
😂 I’ve been filled with the Holy Spirit brother. They will be known by their fruits not by miraculous signs and gifts. As I said before we will not agree on much since we don’t agree on the Trinity. If you can’t see the actual nature of God in scripture then i don’t reckon I will agree with many of your other interpretations.

This is what it looks like on my end on iPhone.
View attachment 285596
Click to expand...

Then your good to go!!
 
Genez said:
We get the sin nature that causes sins at conception as the fallen genes from Adam's fall get passed down.



Remission of sins means the consequences for being a sinner.
Not that we stop being sinners.

This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance: that Christ Jesus came into the world ​
to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 1 Timothy 1:15​

Paul remained having a sin nature because the body we are born into remains defective.

What stops the sin nature from having full reign over us while alive on earth?
Is being controlled by the Spirit.

​
The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is capacity for life and prosperity/'inner peace.' Romans 8:6​
​
Carnal Christians walk in the flesh! Death.

Maturing in Christ is learning to be led and controlled by the Spirit into all truth!
It is not speaking in tongues which is a mindless experience!

But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others ​
than ten thousand words in a tongue. 1 Corinthians 14:19​

Speaking in tongues does not make anyone wiser.
When abused tongues actually keeps believers dumbed-down.
That is why Satan loves to push tongues as the way to live.

Tongues is to be like a security blanket intended for baby Christians.
Tongues offer no knowledge to be gained enabling one to mature with to overcome the enemies of God.

For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 1 Cor 14:14​
​
The longer we remain thinking like a baby the more we will keep turning to tongues for a solution.
It is a security blanket for the immature.

But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others ​
than ten thousand words in a tongue. 1 Corinthians 14:19​
​
​
Grace and truth....
Click to expand...

When JESUS fills us you will speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

FYI, Paul spoke in tongues more than all of us and Thanked GOD for it.

JESUS told HIS discoples not to go out without it.

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

JESUS said in Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

HE will tell us what to do.

And you claim being filled is for babes in Chirst.

So you haven't been bapitzeed in JESUS name and JESUS has not filled you with HIS spirt and you really think your a mature Christian?

Since JESUS has not filled you where are you getting your wisdom from.

Who is your father, it's not to late to REPENT and obey.

Why do you end your comments with grace and TRUTH???
 
Genez said:
How do you know it is the Holy Spirit when speaking in what you can not understand?

Hypnotized people speak in tongues. It is used to entertain the secular world.


How can you know it is the Holy Spirit?
When you do not even know what it is saying?​
Click to expand...

How do you know you don't have it?

If you did, JESUS would take control of you voice and you sure would know it.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Can't enter without it.

Of course your missing the water part also.
 
Genez said:
Being baptized into the name of Jesus means first learning who and what Jesus is!
Click to expand...

Good statement.

When Paul taught & proclaimed Jesus Christ, he referenced Psalm2 (Acts13:33) which every Christian should make sure they and every other Christian reads at minimum re: YHWH's Anointed/Christ/King.
 
Ouch said:
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)


Since we are born in sins, you are dead in sin.
Click to expand...
It means dead in a sinfull lifestyle of sin
 
Mem said:
Considering the significance of the different baptisms, John's baptism being understood as done by water and explicitly explained as one of repentance (of sins), the baptism into Jesus' Name strikes me as implicitly synonymous with one of a baptism into faith (in His Name). And if we have faith in the Name of Jesus, then a faith in His impact on the remission of our sins should already be inherent in that faith so that a repentance would also not only be implied, but inherent in the receiving of that baptism into (the) faith. If so, then the baptism in water would seem rather redundant and at the most only a public display of that faith.
Click to expand...

The porpuse of baptism did not change.

John was sent to start it, preparing the way for the Lord.

When JESUS accended in Acts 1 the NT rebirth started and baptism started in JESUS name.

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

JESUS told HIS diciple,

Matthew 28:19
King James Version
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

So the porpuse of it is to remove our sins, not any public display.

Matthew 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

When you do things in public, you have gotten your reward then.
 
Ouch said:
There is a difference between lying willfully. and lying but not knowing it.

When you learn the difference you should REPENT.

It takes a man to admit his mistakes, correct himself say I'm sorry and move on.

You don't have to apologize to me, your statement wasn't about me.
Click to expand...

And you should be concerned about your own salvation more than what you demand from others.

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

Better to tremble now than when you meet Christ face to face and find out how wrong you were.
 
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