The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

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Dino246 said:
Who here has claimed that one can live in sin and still be saved?
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OSAS claims it's not possible for a person to lose their salvation once they get born again.

And so most of these people like to get their sinful behavior on, but they try to not let their pastor find out.

I've seen what all your OSAS false teachers teach. They are heretics along with all those following the OSAS heresy

You must be one of them seeing how you so upset. :ROFL:
 
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Dino246 said:
You are defending her post as the result of skimming rather than reading carefully. That requires that she made a hasty reaction without adequate thought.

I've done that... and had to apologize. If that's what she did, then she needs to apologize. If, however, it was just an attempt to refute my position, then she is guilty of misrepresentation... and she needs to apologize.

There is no need for your interference.
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I haven’t defended anything.
 
Dino246 said:
Who here has claimed that one can live in sin and still be saved?

Oh... right... nobody. You are just blowing the smoke of irrelevance, misrepresentation, and stupidity. Perhaps your "higher gospel" is herbal in nature.
Click to expand...

It was the herbal part that cracked me up. :LOL:
 
HigherGospel said:
It quite easy to understand where Paul and Job went wrong when one considers the entire Counsel of God
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I've made note to pay closer attention to the hypothetical "ifs" found in scripture, recognizing that if the "if, then" might be true in any case, then I shouldn't fail to also consider whether the "if not, then not" might also true, to confirm that, if it cannot be, then neither can the "if, then" be... if you know what I mean. :confused:

But I think I know what you mean here. :LOL:
 
vassal said:
You people are unbelievable. You assume that everyone sins, especially those who try to teach you the Commandments. You project your own struggles onto others because you do not want to obey them.

We are called to master sin, not to be led by it. That is what temptation is. Jesus was tempted. We are all tempted. Do not be complacent. Fight it.

God gives the Holy Spirit to remind us of the Commandments and many other things, to show us what is right and what is wrong. It is our responsibility to rule over sin, not the other way around. Right now, the Spirit brings to mind many verses that make this clear.


Genesis 4:7 (ASV)
“If thou doest well, shall it not be lifted up? And if thou doest not well, sin coucheth at the door; and unto thee shall be its desire, but thou shouldest rule over it.”

Proverbs 16:32 (ASV)
“He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; And he that ruleth his spirit, than he that taketh a city.”

Proverbs 4:23 (ASV)
“Keep thy heart with all diligence; For out of it are the issues of life.”

Psalm 119:133 (ASV)
“Establish my footsteps in thy word; And let not any iniquity have dominion over me.”

Ecclesiastes 7:9 (ASV)
“Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry; for anger resteth in the bosom of fools.”

John 5:14 (ASV)
“Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing befall thee.”

John 8:11 (ASV)
“Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more.”

Matthew 5:29–30 (ASV)
“And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out… And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off…”

Matthew 7:21 (ASV)
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

James 1:14–15 (ASV)
“But each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed. Then the lust, when it hath conceived, beareth sin…”

Matthew 6:34 (ASV)
“Be not therefore anxious for the morrow; for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.”

Again, where people fail is trust. God will provide. The Holy Spirit gives us the strength to let go of sin. Some people do not even try, believing it is impossible not to sin.

But if you ask God, in the name of Jesus, to help you let go of sin, He will. God provides, and Jesus promised His help.

John 14:13–14 (ASV)
“And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask me anything in my name, that will I do.”

Scripture shows that victory over sin is a daily walk, not a claim of instant perfection. Jesus never taught that the struggle would disappear. Instead, He taught us how to live faithfully one day at a time.

Jesus said:
“Be not therefore anxious for the morrow; for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.” (Matthew 6:34, ASV)

This means obedience is lived today. Today we choose to trust God. Today we resist temptation. Tomorrow will bring its own test, and God will give help for that day as well.

The struggle against sin continues, but surrender to sin is never acceptable. God does not excuse sin, yet He provides strength to resist it. Each day, we walk forward in faith, depending on Him.

As it is written:
“Establish my footsteps in thy word; And let not any iniquity have dominion over me.” (Psalm 119:133, ASV)

Victory is not about claiming perfection. It is about daily faithfulness, daily trust, and daily obedience before God.
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Kindly do not attribute words to me that I did not say. Your quote is NOT what I said.
 
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HigherGospel said:
OSAS claims it's not possible for a person to lose their salvation once they get born again.

And so most of these people like to get their sinful behavior on, but they try to not let their pastor find out.

I've seen what all your OSAS false teachers teach. They are heretics along with all those following the OSAS heresy

You must be one of them seeing how you so upset. :ROFL:
Click to expand...
Why does OSAS upset you so much? Do you not understand that eternal means eternal? Do you even know what it means to be born again? Can what is born of God die?

Anyone who says that they love sin and has no intention of changing is not born again. Your straw man argument will be burned up by God's consuming fire. You really should repent of your critical attitude and your false accusations against real believers.

I'd hate to be you. There is no joy in your salvation. You are too busy condemning others to have any real joy.

"He who has the Son has the Life." And the life that the Son gives is eternal and indestructible (Hebrews 7:16).
 
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Salvation as a Journey Rooted in True Belief

Many people believe salvation is secured the moment a person says they believe. They often quote verses from the Gospel of John that speak about believing and eternal life, and from this they conclude that nothing else matters afterward. This approach treats belief as a moment instead of a life. When the words of Jesus are read in their full setting, a different picture appears. Jesus never taught belief as a bare statement of agreement. In Scripture, belief is living trust that receives Him, follows Him, remains with Him, and is proven over time. Salvation depends on this kind of belief.

What Jesus Means by “Believe”
A major source of confusion is the modern meaning of the word believe. Today it often means agreeing with a fact in the mind. In the Bible, believing means trusting, relying on, and giving oneself over to something. It involves loyalty and direction, not just thought.
Jesus Himself shows this clearly. He said,
“He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life.” (John 3:36, ASV)
This is one sentence spoken by the same voice, yet it contrasts belief with disobedience. That tells us what kind of belief Jesus is talking about. True belief moves a person toward obedience. A belief that refuses obedience is not the belief that leads to life.
Jesus also said,
“This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” (John 6:29, ASV)
Believing is not presented as a human claim but as something God works in a person. When God produces belief, it reshapes the will, the desires, and the direction of life. This is why belief in Scripture is never passive.

Believing Requires Remaining and Abiding
The Gospel of John itself makes clear that believing must continue. Jesus never spoke of belief as something that happens once and then becomes untouchable.
He said,
“If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”(John 8:31–32, ASV)
The condition is simple and strong. If you abide, then you are truly His disciple. Abiding means remaining, staying, and continuing. Freedom is promised only to those who remain in His word.
Jesus then gave the image of the vine and the branches to explain this reality:
“Abide in me, and I in you… If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered.” (John 15:4,6, ASV)
This picture only makes sense if remaining matters. A branch must already be connected in order to be removed. Jesus is warning His own followers that life depends on staying connected to Him.

Eternal Life Is Given, but It Must Be Kept
Jesus clearly taught that eternal life is given to the believer.
“He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life.” (John 5:24, ASV)
This is often quoted as if it ends the discussion. But Jesus never treated eternal life as permission to stop listening or following. Eternal life is a living gift that must be guarded.
Later He said,
“If a man keep my word, he shall never see death.” (John 8:51, ASV)
Here eternal life is tied to keeping His word. Hearing and believing bring life, but keeping His word shows that the life is real and continuing.

Jesus’ Warnings Only Make Sense if Continuance Matters
Jesus repeatedly warned His own listeners about failing to endure.
“He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13, ASV)
This statement would have no meaning if salvation were guaranteed at the first moment of belief. Endurance only matters if turning away is possible.
Jesus explained this in the parable of the sower. He spoke of people who receive the word with joy, believe for a time, and yet later fall away:
“They believe for a while; and in time of temptation fall away.” (Luke 8:13, ASV)
Temporary belief is not saving belief. What matters is belief that survives testing.

Doing the Will of God Reveals True Faith
Jesus was direct about the final judgment.
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21, ASV)
These people believed enough to speak religious words and even acknowledge Jesus as Lord. Yet they were rejected because their lives did not match their claim.
Jesus ended this teaching with the parable of the two builders. Both heard His words. One obeyed, one did not. Only the obedient one stood in the end (Matthew 7:24–27). Hearing without doing leads to collapse.

The Narrow Way Is a Life That Is Walked
Jesus described salvation as a path.
“Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, that leadeth unto life.” (Matthew 7:14, ASV)
A gate is an entry point, but the way is a road that must be walked. Entering does not replace walking. Salvation is found on the path that follows.

To conclude, Jesus never taught salvation as a sentence spoken once and never tested again. He taught salvation as believing that remains, faith that obeys, and trust that endures. The verses in John about believing do not cancel Jesus’ commands and warnings. They explain the depth and nature of the belief that saves.
Salvation begins with believing, but it is completed by continuing.
“Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life.” (Revelation 2:10, ASV)
 
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Biblically speaking, you are saved, you are being saved, and you will be saved. You are even made alive with Christ when you are dead in transgression/sin Eph2:4&5
 
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Undergrace1 said:
Biblically speaking, you are saved, you are being saved, and you will be saved. You are even made alive with Christ when you are dead in transgression/sin Eph2:4&5
Click to expand...

Thank you for the comment. The phrases “saved,” “being saved,” and “will be saved” only make sense if salvation is understood as a living process, not a one-time claim. On that point, we actually agree.

The key question, though, is how Jesus Himself described that process.

Jesus spoke of salvation as something that must be continued in, not merely received once. He said, “If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples” (John 8:31). He warned that a person can be “in” Him and yet be removed if they do not remain and bear fruit (John 15:1–6). He also said plainly, “He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved”(Matthew 24:13).

Being “made alive” does not remove responsibility to walk. Jesus never taught that being given life means the journey is finished. He taught that life must be kept, guarded, and lived out through obedience. That is why He said, “If a man keep my word, he shall never see death” (John 8:51).

So the issue is not whether God gives life. He does.
The issue is whether that life must be lived faithfully until the end, as Jesus consistently taught.

Salvation, according to Jesus, is not denied by saying it is a journey.
It is defined by it.
 
vassal said:
Thank you for the comment. The phrases “saved,” “being saved,” and “will be saved” only make sense if salvation is understood as a living process, not a one-time claim. On that point, we actually agree.

The key question, though, is how Jesus Himself described that process.

Jesus spoke of salvation as something that must be continued in, not merely received once. He said, “If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples” (John 8:31). He warned that a person can be “in” Him and yet be removed if they do not remain and bear fruit (John 15:1–6). He also said plainly, “He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved”(Matthew 24:13).

Being “made alive” does not remove responsibility to walk. Jesus never taught that being given life means the journey is finished. He taught that life must be kept, guarded, and lived out through obedience. That is why He said, “If a man keep my word, he shall never see death” (John 8:51).

So the issue is not whether God gives life. He does.
The issue is whether that life must be lived faithfully until the end, as Jesus consistently taught.

Salvation, according to Jesus, is not denied by saying it is a journey.
It is defined by it.
Click to expand...
Schucks, and only yesterday you said you wouldn't respond to anymore of my posts, but as I said, that was because you couldnt answer the question put!
 
vassal said:
Salvation as a Journey Rooted in True Belief

Many people believe salvation is secured the moment a person says they believe. They often quote verses from the Gospel of John that speak about believing and eternal life, and from this they conclude that nothing else matters afterward. This approach treats belief as a moment instead of a life. When the words of Jesus are read in their full setting, a different picture appears. Jesus never taught belief as a bare statement of agreement. In Scripture, belief is living trust that receives Him, follows Him, remains with Him, and is proven over time. Salvation depends on this kind of belief.

What Jesus Means by “Believe”
A major source of confusion is the modern meaning of the word believe. Today it often means agreeing with a fact in the mind. In the Bible, believing means trusting, relying on, and giving oneself over to something. It involves loyalty and direction, not just thought.
Jesus Himself shows this clearly. He said,
“He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life.” (John 3:36, ASV)
This is one sentence spoken by the same voice, yet it contrasts belief with disobedience. That tells us what kind of belief Jesus is talking about. True belief moves a person toward obedience. A belief that refuses obedience is not the belief that leads to life.
Jesus also said,
“This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” (John 6:29, ASV)
Believing is not presented as a human claim but as something God works in a person. When God produces belief, it reshapes the will, the desires, and the direction of life. This is why belief in Scripture is never passive.

Believing Requires Remaining and Abiding
The Gospel of John itself makes clear that believing must continue. Jesus never spoke of belief as something that happens once and then becomes untouchable.
He said,
“If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”(John 8:31–32, ASV)
The condition is simple and strong. If you abide, then you are truly His disciple. Abiding means remaining, staying, and continuing. Freedom is promised only to those who remain in His word.
Jesus then gave the image of the vine and the branches to explain this reality:
“Abide in me, and I in you… If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered.” (John 15:4,6, ASV)
This picture only makes sense if remaining matters. A branch must already be connected in order to be removed. Jesus is warning His own followers that life depends on staying connected to Him.

Eternal Life Is Given, but It Must Be Kept
Jesus clearly taught that eternal life is given to the believer.
“He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life.” (John 5:24, ASV)
This is often quoted as if it ends the discussion. But Jesus never treated eternal life as permission to stop listening or following. Eternal life is a living gift that must be guarded.
Later He said,
“If a man keep my word, he shall never see death.” (John 8:51, ASV)
Here eternal life is tied to keeping His word. Hearing and believing bring life, but keeping His word shows that the life is real and continuing.

Jesus’ Warnings Only Make Sense if Continuance Matters
Jesus repeatedly warned His own listeners about failing to endure.
“He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13, ASV)
This statement would have no meaning if salvation were guaranteed at the first moment of belief. Endurance only matters if turning away is possible.
Jesus explained this in the parable of the sower. He spoke of people who receive the word with joy, believe for a time, and yet later fall away:
“They believe for a while; and in time of temptation fall away.” (Luke 8:13, ASV)
Temporary belief is not saving belief. What matters is belief that survives testing.

Doing the Will of God Reveals True Faith
Jesus was direct about the final judgment.
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21, ASV)
These people believed enough to speak religious words and even acknowledge Jesus as Lord. Yet they were rejected because their lives did not match their claim.
Jesus ended this teaching with the parable of the two builders. Both heard His words. One obeyed, one did not. Only the obedient one stood in the end (Matthew 7:24–27). Hearing without doing leads to collapse.

The Narrow Way Is a Life That Is Walked
Jesus described salvation as a path.
“Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, that leadeth unto life.” (Matthew 7:14, ASV)
A gate is an entry point, but the way is a road that must be walked. Entering does not replace walking. Salvation is found on the path that follows.

To conclude, Jesus never taught salvation as a sentence spoken once and never tested again. He taught salvation as believing that remains, faith that obeys, and trust that endures. The verses in John about believing do not cancel Jesus’ commands and warnings. They explain the depth and nature of the belief that saves.
Salvation begins with believing, but it is completed by continuing.
“Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life.” (Revelation 2:10, ASV)
Click to expand...

Wrong. The requirements you've mentioned above are the result of salvation not its cause nor of how it is retained. It is God, not man, who ensures they are satisfied. Once given, being eternal, it is, eternal, and cannot be lost or taken away because it was given from what Christ achieved not by what man achieves. Notice in the verse 4 below that salvation has been "reserved in heaven", "incorruptible, undefiled, and that fadeth not away". As reserved and not to fade away, it cannot be changed. Notice in verse 5 below, that God Himself assumed full responsibility through His power, for keeping those whom He has saved, saved. He does this through the utilization of faith. None of it is dependent upon man or his efforts.

[1Pe 1:2-5 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
 
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rogerg said:
Wrong. The requirements you've mentioned above are the result of salvation not its cause nor of how it is retained. It is God, not man, who ensures they are satisfied. Once given, being eternal, it is, eternal, and cannot be lost or taken away because it was given from what Christ achieved not by what man achieves. Notice in the verse 4 below that salvation has been "reserved in heaven", "incorruptible, undefiled, and that fadeth not away". As reserved and not to fade away, it cannot be changed. Notice in verse 5 below, that God Himself assumed full responsibility through His power, for keeping those whom He has saved, saved. He does this through the utilization of faith. None of it is dependent upon man or his efforts.

[1Pe 1:2-5 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your comment and for quoting Scripture. I agree that God is faithful and powerful, and that salvation originates with Him. He gives life and keeps His people. The question, though, is how Jesus describes the human experience of that salvation, and His teaching makes it clear that it is not automatic or passive.
Jesus consistently taught that salvation is a walk, a life, and a process that must continue. He said, “If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples” (John 8:31). Abiding is an action, a choice, and it matters. He warned that a branch in the vine can be removed if it does not remain and bear fruit (John 15:1–6). He also said, “He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13).
The passages you quoted in 1 Peter describe God’s power and promise. They do not contradict Jesus’ teaching—they confirm that the life He gives is living, active, and must be maintained through faith and obedience. Faith is not passive; it is the life that God works in us, which must continue to grow and bear fruit. This is why Jesus warned repeatedly that not everyone who calls Him “Lord” will enter the kingdom, but only those who do the will of the Father(Matthew 7:21).
God indeed sustains life. But Jesus’ words show that salvation is something to be lived faithfully, not assumed as automatically secure without walking with Him day by day. Eternal life is a gift, but it is also a path—a living, continuing relationship.
 
Undergrace1 said:
Schucks, and only yesterday you said you wouldn't respond to anymore of my posts, but as I said, that was because you couldnt answer the question put!
Click to expand...
i always reply to a legit question asked politely and that i did not answer previously.
 
vassal said:
Thank you for your comment and for quoting Scripture. I agree that God is faithful and powerful, and that salvation originates with Him. He gives life and keeps His people. The question, though, is how Jesus describes the human experience of that salvation, and His teaching makes it clear that it is not automatic or passive.
Jesus consistently taught that salvation is a walk, a life, and a process that must continue. He said, “If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples” (John 8:31). Abiding is an action, a choice, and it matters. He warned that a branch in the vine can be removed if it does not remain and bear fruit (John 15:1–6). He also said, “He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13).
The passages you quoted in 1 Peter describe God’s power and promise. They do not contradict Jesus’ teaching—they confirm that the life He gives is living, active, and must be maintained through faith and obedience. Faith is not passive; it is the life that God works in us, which must continue to grow and bear fruit. This is why Jesus warned repeatedly that not everyone who calls Him “Lord” will enter the kingdom, but only those who do the will of the Father(Matthew 7:21).
God indeed sustains life. But Jesus’ words show that salvation is something to be lived faithfully, not assumed as automatically secure without walking with Him day by day. Eternal life is a gift, but it is also a path—a living, continuing relationship.
Click to expand...

Per Peter, the verses you quoted are a description of the attributes of those already saved - attributes that the saved possess and demonstrate -not what they must do to become or to remain saved - God has made Himself the guarantor that, not man.
 
rogerg said:
Per Peter, the verses you quoted are a description of the attributes of those already saved - attributes that the saved possess and demonstrate -not what they must do to become or to remain saved - God has made Himself the guarantor that, not man.
Click to expand...
Thank you for clarifying. I agree that God is the guarantor of life and that He gives the gift of salvation. The point, however, is not whether God works or protects—it is what Jesus Himself taught about living that life.
Jesus never described salvation as a gift that guarantees automatic permanence without ongoing response. He repeatedly emphasized that faith must remain active, obedient, and enduring. He said, “If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples” (John 8:31), and warned that a branch can be removed if it does not continue to bear fruit (John 15:1–6). He also said, “He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13), and, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father” (Matthew 7:21).

The attributes Peter describes—obedience, faith, hope, and enduring life—are exactly what Jesus taught as necessary for salvation. God gives life, but He does not remove the requirement to live that life actively in Him. Salvation, according to Jesus, is a living, continuing relationship, not a momentary declaration.
 
vassal said:
i always reply to a legit question asked politely and that i did not answer previously.
Click to expand...
You wrote to me yesterday, and I quote:
I told you before will not answer your questions and i explained why.!

Therefore, I don't feel obliged to respond to what you write to me
 
Undergrace1 said:
You wrote to me yesterday, and I quote:
I told you before will not answer your questions and i explained why.!

Therefore, I don't feel obliged to respond to what you write to me
Click to expand...
you do not have to reply, don't worry about it.
 
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