What is the "object" of our NT saving faith.

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to me, "saving faith" is a challenge to describe. i haven't heard anyone teaching on it. maybe we can start with each individual's free will & free choice. so, someone hears the call from the Holy Spirit, someone in general or by reading literature that gives the idea to be saved & become a born again Christian. soon, faith enters the picture. said person realizes faith is what it takes to believe in God, Jesus & the Holy Spirit. by course, trust to. as the Christian grows, he or she is learning more & thru faith & more about faith. its something that needs to be worked from time to time. Christians become stronger in Jesus by strengthening faith. since every day is a new day, our actions, reactions & interactions bring new experiences giving us new responses effecting our will & choice. that's the best i can describe it.

It is whatever a persons focus is on, what?
Proverbs 23:1-7
When thou sittest to eat with a ruler,
consider diligently what is before thee:
2 and put a knife to thy throat,
if thou be a man given to appetite.
3 Be not desirous of his dainties:
for they are deceitful meat.
4 Labour not to be rich:
cease from thine own wisdom.
5 Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not?
for riches certainly make themselves wings;
they fly away as an eagle toward heaven.
6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye,
neither desire thou his dainty meats:
7 for as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:
Eat and drink, saith he to thee;
but his heart is not with thee.

Therefore, what is it you are wanting?
God judges motives. sees why anyone is doing whatever anyone is doing
That is why he has said to some go away, you are not mine
And I see written, but these say but Lord we did this and that in your name
And is why he replies I never knew you
Now wait a second, people have and do, got healed through my preaching you. What?
there are those that sit in Moses's seat. I see to be clear to not sit there for any reward for me
I do not know who is and who will not, I do know personally it is not a good thing to fall into the hand of God
as in Matthew 18:24-35 or to be like in Luke 18:9-14
 
I asked for a great new Job, wanted a beautiful wife, and best kids ever
When God said no, I was pissed, and wanted to think God does not love me and not want what is best for me, Anyone else go through this type of scenario
God wants what is best for us all. Even if one does not get what one wants. It is not good for one to get. Yet many overlook this and do it anyways, and get messed up seriously.
Jeremiah 29:11 and if I do not get what I think I want, then what happens next?
Do we, you, I continue to believe God wants what is best for us each? Does God know best?
But "I" Want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Will you let go and trust God does know what is best?
Or will you go after what you want regardless?

Hope that clears it up for you Friend in the risen Son
 
I asked for a great new Job, wanted a beautiful wife, and best kids ever
When God said no,

OK So your talking about Answered Prayer here ---for Your Wants and Desires -----you Want a Great New Job ---is that a NEED or Just Your Want ------so your dictating to God what YOUR DESIRE IS for yourself ---A GREAT NEW JOB -----Your Praying YOUR WILL------ NOT HIS WILL -----

If you needed A JOB ---God WILL Provide that job ---it may be a Cleaning Job ---it may be a Retail job --it maybe be an office Job ------when you really need a job and Pray to God for-- A JOB ----

----He will Answer that call and you need to be Grateful that ---A------Job was provided for you ----

Your not asking God with the right Motive ----your demanding what YOU WANT ----and God will Say No to that Prayer -----

AI
James 4:3 states that prayers often go unanswered because they are asked with wrong, selfish motives—specifically to spend17,7,6} blessings on personal pleasures or "passions" rather than God's will.

I say -----Again your asking for A Beautiful Wife -----your Desire ----and the Best Kids ---your Desire ----your not asking what God wants for you ------your dictating to God ------

You need to read the scriptures on Answered Prayer as there is Protocol for God to answer People's prayers -----You Have to Pray His Will Not your Will ------

I was pissed, and wanted to think God does not love me and not want what is best for me,

Well that is your second Mistake -----your arrogance toward God here is showing --big time -----your PISSED ---God has no obligation to give you anything -----you should be Grateful for what you have --cause you only have what you have because God has allowed you to have it ------

Seems to me you have much to lean about Answered Prayer -----

14 Conditions of Answered Prayer
https://www.georgemuller.org/blog/14-conditions-of-answered-prayer
 
OK So your talking about Answered Prayer here ---for Your Wants and Desires -----you Want a Great New Job ---is that a NEED or Just Your Want ------so your dictating to God what YOUR DESIRE IS for yourself ---A GREAT NEW JOB -----Your Praying YOUR WILL------ NOT HIS WILL -----

If you needed A JOB ---God WILL Provide that job ---it may be a Cleaning Job ---it may be a Retail job --it maybe be an office Job ------when you really need a job and Pray to God for-- A JOB ----

----He will Answer that call and you need to be Grateful that ---A------Job was provided for you ----

Your not asking God with the right Motive ----your demanding what YOU WANT ----and God will Say No to that Prayer -----

AI
James 4:3 states that prayers often go unanswered because they are asked with wrong, selfish motives—specifically to spend17,7,6} blessings on personal pleasures or "passions" rather than God's will.

I say -----Again your asking for A Beautiful Wife -----your Desire ----and the Best Kids ---your Desire ----your not asking what God wants for you ------your dictating to God ------

You need to read the scriptures on Answered Prayer as there is Protocol for God to answer People's prayers -----You Have to Pray His Will Not your Will ------



Well that is your second Mistake -----your arrogance toward God here is showing --big time -----your PISSED ---God has no obligation to give you anything -----you should be Grateful for what you have --cause you only have what you have because God has allowed you to have it ------

Seems to me you have much to lean about Answered Prayer -----

14 Conditions of Answered Prayer
https://www.georgemuller.org/blog/14-conditions-of-answered-prayer


My reply was not a reality, was an example, yet thank you
You do not get the message I was conveying,Totally misinterpreted
It is about anyone's motive, whoever has the wrong motive will not see truth from God in love and mercy to us all, at least me thank you for your response
 
OK So your talking about Answered Prayer here ---for Your Wants and Desires -----you Want a Great New Job ---is that a NEED or Just Your Want ------so your dictating to God what YOUR DESIRE IS for yourself ---A GREAT NEW JOB -----Your Praying YOUR WILL------ NOT HIS WILL -----

If you needed A JOB ---God WILL Provide that job ---it may be a Cleaning Job ---it may be a Retail job --it maybe be an office Job ------when you really need a job and Pray to God for-- A JOB ----

----He will Answer that call and you need to be Grateful that ---A------Job was provided for you ----

Your not asking God with the right Motive ----your demanding what YOU WANT ----and God will Say No to that Prayer -----

AI
James 4:3 states that prayers often go unanswered because they are asked with wrong, selfish motives—specifically to spend17,7,6} blessings on personal pleasures or "passions" rather than God's will.

I say -----Again your asking for A Beautiful Wife -----your Desire ----and the Best Kids ---your Desire ----your not asking what God wants for you ------your dictating to God ------

You need to read the scriptures on Answered Prayer as there is Protocol for God to answer People's prayers -----You Have to Pray His Will Not your Will ------



Well that is your second Mistake -----your arrogance toward God here is showing --big time -----your PISSED ---God has no obligation to give you anything -----you should be Grateful for what you have --cause you only have what you have because God has allowed you to have it ------

Seems to me you have much to lean about Answered Prayer -----

14 Conditions of Answered Prayer
https://www.georgemuller.org/blog/14-conditions-of-answered-prayer

I, see I should have started out the post with Example if I
You did not apparently read the entire post or did you. I think not
Okay thank you read it all please and see clearer in the post as awhile whole
thank you
 
We cannot tempt God, nor does he tempt any man.

I wanted to say that the Devil is able to appear as an angel of light. He can quote the scriptures. By quoting the scriptures an ungodly man can stand at the popult and preach the word of God. I have heard about how TV pastors copied small churches.
 
I, see I should have started out the post with Example

Well If you had of stated that is was an example ------I would have said --I am answering your Example as to why God said No to your Example request ------

We can't just pray for what we want and expect to get an answer ===there is a lot to learn about How to approach God in Prayer and what God will answer and what He won't answer -----



God wants what is best for us all. Even if one does not get what one wants. It is not good for one to get. Yet many overlook this and do it anyways, and get messed up seriously.
!Will you let go and trust God does know what is best?
Or will you go after what you want regardless?

Well i do agree somewhat with what you state here -----but again ----God has a system set up for Him to answer Prayers --Prayed by Believers -----

God does know what is best for us -----and He wants to ANSWER Our Prayers -----and will answer all our Prayers if we Pray His Will and follow Jesus' instructions as to how to get answered Prayer -----

for Example --Pray His Will -----
you can't doubt that your Prayer might no get answered ----
you have to forgive all your enemies and all wrongs done to you ---
you can't hold any grudge toward anyone ------
you have to Pray with the right Motive -----
you have to Pray in Jesus Name ---
you have to believe that God already knows what your Praying for before you Pray it and believe God has already answered it -----so you present your plea to God and THANK HIM FOR ANSWERING your Plea in Jesus Name -----
you don't hope God will answer -----you have the Trust and Confidence that God has already answered it ----
 
We cannot tempt God, nor does he tempt any man.

I wanted to say that the Devil is able to appear as an angel of light. He can quote the scriptures. By quoting the scriptures an ungodly man can stand at the popult and preach the word of God. I have heard about how TV pastors copied small churches.

Therefore trust God to make us wise as serpents and remain harmless as doves. Any tree is always identified by its fruit. It does take experience to bone to understand and will as long as we stand Col 1:21-23
 
Well If you had of stated that is was an example ------I would have said --I am answering your Example as to why God said No to your Example request ------

We can't just pray for what we want and expect to get an answer ===there is a lot to learn about How to approach God in Prayer and what God will answer and what He won't answer -----





Well i do agree somewhat with what you state here -----but again ----God has a system set up for Him to answer Prayers --Prayed by Believers -----

God does know what is best for us -----and He wants to ANSWER Our Prayers -----and will answer all our Prayers if we Pray His Will and follow Jesus' instructions as to how to get answered Prayer -----

for Example --Pray His Will -----
you can't doubt that your Prayer might no get answered ----
you have to forgive all your enemies and all wrongs done to you ---
you can't hold any grudge toward anyone ------
you have to Pray with the right Motive -----
you have to Pray in Jesus Name ---
you have to believe that God already knows what your Praying for before you Pray it and believe God has already answered it -----so you present your plea to God and THANK HIM FOR ANSWERING your Plea in Jesus Name -----
you don't hope God will answer -----you have the Trust and Confidence that God has already answered it ----

God Father and Son as Won for everyone on that cross, now, all are reconciled to Father through Son. So we can go to that throne of grace confidently. since by Son Psalm 103:12 is filled and we are being offered Ezekiel 36:26, no more under Law
The above post you wrote I read you are under Law to be able to approach. Man made Laws,
God is your friend and loves us all deeply, wide and high, deeper, wider and higher than I can ever imagine. Father wants the best for his kids, you are his child, right?
Will Father give you a snake, or the gift for you to appreciate and be you in the process, not your old self, your new self God made for you in risen Son to you? Since no other flesh can please Father?
 
God Father and Son as Won for everyone on that cross, now,

NO _______Jesus took all sin for all people ----but not all people have accepted Jesus ----

The Father and Son are ONE that is for sure ----but not all people can come to have their Prayers answered -----as they are still under the Cures if they have not Received Jesus and Believers can have their Prayers Blocked by Doubt --fear and unbelief ----Satan is still the god of this world ---and is alive and active to keep even believers from getting their Prayers answered -----

You are giving people false Hope with what your saying in your post -------there is PROTOCOL for Answered Prayer ---from Jesus Himself -----and these Protocols for answered Prayer are not Laws so they do not come under the laws of the Old testament ----

Jesus is explaining how to Get answered prayer ------
 
Sin also Brock prayers ------Satan and his demons can block your Prayers as well ------as you see he Blocked Daniel's prayer in Daniel 10 - -----

The Curses in Deuteronomy 28 are for today --Folks ---- unbelievers are not under the Blessings as Jesus died to bring back the Blessings for all who Receive him ------unbelievers remain under the Curse ====

This earth Remains under a curse as well ----Jesus us coming back to fix it ------

Isaiah 24:6

Amplified Bible
Therefore, a curse devours the earth, and those who live on it suffer the punishment of their guilt.
 
NO _______Jesus took all sin for all people ----but not all people have accepted Jesus ----

The Father and Son are ONE that is for sure ----but not all people can come to have their Prayers answered -----as they are still under the Cures if they have not Received Jesus and Believers can have their Prayers Blocked by Doubt --fear and unbelief ----Satan is still the god of this world ---and is alive and active to keep even believers from getting their Prayers answered -----

You are giving people false Hope with what your saying in your post -------there is PROTOCOL for Answered Prayer ---from Jesus Himself -----and these Protocols for answered Prayer are not Laws so they do not come under the laws of the Old testament ----

Jesus is explaining how to Get answered prayer ------

So, sorry you are not seeing and are mixing Literal Law and Grace of God given you, as many others do this too, 1 John 2:1-27, It is done John 19:30 by Son for us all through Jesus the Son of God, done once for all on that cross to get given new life freely from Father in Son's risen Life. To all who will go in willingly to receive truth from Father in Father's Spirit and Truth, those that acknowledge their need to be saved, to Father, seeing no way can they do Law perfectly ever, as stated in the Bible no one else can, but Son, These people ask God Father for the new life and Father gives it to anyone sincere to know Father. Father knows each persons motive, so some will not recieve and try to do it themselves under Law and try to mix grace with it

Does Oil and water naturally mix? God is oil, we are carnal water.
You can as religions do, take water and oil, putting the two in a glass, seal the top and shake it up.
Does the oil and water mix, it appears to? Do our emotions run high? What happens when that glass of oil and water is not shaken up anymore? They separate yes?
Father by Son has mixed himself with us through Son's done work for everyone, to be new in the risen life of Son for us each in Farther's Spirit and Truth for all. John 4:23-24
No longer alive to first birth of flesh and blood, born again by God from above. Hear presently reaching out to us all to get the love of the truth for us all to see new in. love and mercy to all
Father and Son as Won, thank you, no other way I see, after been under Law to do and saw I can't, seeing now you did it Thank you
 
Now i know I'm using the word "faith" as a noun in the heading, but i mean it as the verb form of that noun faith.

The verb form of the noun faith (pistis) is pisteuo in the Greek. Pisteuo is a verb, an action word. Specifically, an act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence, 3 separate actions make up pisteuo and describe what saving faith is in relationship to the living God.

So this is what id like to look at.
1) What is the specific act? 2) What is the specific belief? 3) what is the specific sustained confidence that makes up the object of NT saving faith?

What is the object of our "faithing" (pisteuo) , and how is it applied to fulfill a mandatory response , by us, to recieve the Spirit of Christ?

Test
 
I guess you have not been reading the Kerygma thread, where I have been teaching about saving faith. Here is part of it:

There are two main ways God/Christ is encountered:

1. General revelation, which includes meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work and moral conscience. Paul said men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (Rom. 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (Acts 14:16-17, 17:26-27&30, Rom. 1:18-20, Rom. 10:13-18, Col. 1:23, Gal. 3:8, 1Pet. 1:10-12, cf. the Parable of the Talents in Matt. 25:14-30). He also taught that all normal humans have an inner conscience or “common” sense (Rom. 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture. Thus, sinners have no excuse for not seeking God’s salvation or being truthseekers (Matthew 7:7, Hebrews 11:6).

2. Special revelation (1Pet. 1:8-12), which refers mainly to divinely inspired NT teaching regarding God’s history of salvation. Again, the Parable of the Talents indicates that souls are saved via faith in God/ Christ as revealed (cf. 1Cor. 10:1-5). Truthseekers around the world in all times are pilgrims at various places along the road of life, and all true roads eventually lead to the Way to eternal life in heaven (John 14:6, Acts 24:14, Phil. 2:10-11). All truth leads to One Way.

Regarding the second mode of revelation (NT), the kerygma or GRFS can be stated in various ways, which may cause confusion. Some statements (e.g. Acts 16:31, quoted previously, & Eph. 2:8-9) are in terms of believing right, and others (e.g. Matt. 7:21, “only he who does the will of my Father will enter heaven”, cf. Gal. 6:7-9 & Eph. 2:10) are in terms of behaving right. This prompts the question: Is salvation obtained by believing God’s words or by doing God’s works? The answer is indicated by John 6:29: “The work of God is to believe in the one [Messiah/Christ] He has sent.” As Jesus stated (in John 14:6): “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” And saving belief in Christ is connected with or manifested by love for humanity (1John 3:23-24, John 14:15, 23 & 15:9-12).

The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (John 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1John 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son. And the full Gospel is that salvation is followed by sanctification or spiritual growth toward moral perfection (Phil. 3:12-19) that reflects the love of Christ (Eph. 3:16-19).

Teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS may be indicated by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.

The distinction between kerygma and didache can be seen also in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The scriptures “which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” refers to the Gospel or kerygma. The scriptural teaching that is useful for “training in righteousness, so that the man [or woman per Gal. 3:28] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” refers to the didache. The apostle Paul also employs the difference between kerygma and didache in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The “foundation… which is Jesus Christ” is the kerygmatic teaching regarding salvation. Paul alludes to the didache when he says that one should be careful how he/she builds upon this foundation.

The distinction between kerygma and didache involves a difference in content and purpose. The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime. A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace or motivates good works while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime (Rom. 1:17). IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s grace.

Notice that the kerygma/Gospel fulfills and supersedes OT revelation, but does not contradict its correct interpretation (Heb. 8:6-13). However, the NT revelation of GRFS will never become obsolete (Phil. 2:9-11, Rev. 22:12-13). Thus, new revelations from God’s Holy Spirit will not contradict the Gospel, although they may express its truth in a different way or form, or else God would be inconsistent or tricky. There may be new wine skins, but no new wine (Matt. 19:17). Post-NT inspiration must be didachaic information regarding contemporary moral or political issues.

The kerygma/GRFS should be every Christian’s creed, and only belief in this crucial truth should be viewed as a test for orthodoxy or heresy. As Paul wrote in Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines. (If any judgment is made, it should begin with a self-examination per Matt. 7:1&5, 2Cor. 13:5-8).

A major reason many Christians throughout history have not manifested the love and unity of God’s Spirit (Eph. 4:3) as well as they should is because of failure to realize this truth. If they did, it would free them to speak honestly and fellowship without becoming unduly upset about relatively minor issues. They would receive God’s blessing as peacemakers, who draw inclusive circles around people based on the kerygma rather than denominational lines between them due to didachaic differences. Jesus prayed for spiritual unity (cf. John 17:20-23, “May they be one…”). Thus, unity regarding the Gospel is more important than accuracy regarding doctrinal details.

Just to let the members here know, I'm being blocked from replying to my own threads.

I haven't been able to reply to this thread for almost a week. I had to contact Roboop to try and find out why. I was never given a reason.

Now I'm locked out from posting on the Christianity in a nutshell thread, no reason.

Can a moderator tell me what's going on?