John 3:18 (what is necessary for salvation from what Jesus says here?)

See Jesus on that cross. Two others were there, one said to Jesus I believe you. The other scorned Jesus still
Jesus knew the person, that stated he believed, that he sincerely did. So he was saved as Jesus said. I hear you sincere in belief too. So Father Weill train you new, one problem at a time, never many at one time.
Jesus saw all future in the man that believed, that he would do as led at least learn to, after every mistake made, as I have and you are doing too. If he was not killed that day, Jesus saw him learning to stand in Col 1:21-22. Martin Luther saw the Light and was killed not long after that, by Evil to keep others from seeing the true light as well. Myself I have been killed more than once, and reckoned me dead presently and stand in the present given by God , I believe God. So do the same and see you will agree in change to God in love and mercy given you John 13:34. God will not force change on anyone, never has done that with me. therefore in this freedom I have changed and am still in process too. Learning the willing over the have to's. could have's and should have's. seeing all that as past Phil 3

Now for me. It started for me, when my wife now 43 years ago, was not my wife yet, handed me here paycheck willingly. I grabbed a hold. I went across the street to get beer
I slapped a 6 pack on the counter and pulled out my wallet, I saw the cash and knew it was not mine, it was hers. I did not buy that 6 pack, stopped drinking not long after that, willingly quit.
God from me sincerely believing God revealed to me compassion to all and no more stealing anything from anyone. No more lying, cheating. Now I learned each one separately from God teaching me in me personally. 1 John 2:27
I turned to total trust to God. who saw in my continued belief I would not deny God, the same as in the book of Job
So God knew that man on that cross next to him, believed and so was saved then and there with him
Trusting Father to reveal this truth to you and learn truth over errors here in this world still

If you were told to believe into something what would that mean the same thing to you as being told to believe in something?

LeeLoving said:

John 3:18
King James Version
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Is simply believing in Jesus (like that he is a person and that he exists) enough to be saved considering what he says here in John 3:18? He says those who believe not are condemned already because they have not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. If you only must know his name then I think what Jesus might be saying here is that you must simply believe in him, if you follow my logic. It's just that for Jesus to say that those who believe not are condemned because they have not believed in his name seems to take all requisites for salvation away from the believing part, as many like to say you must believe the gospel and etc. when it might be the truth you simply have to believe in Jesus as a person. I'm interested in what other people have to say about this part of the Bible (namely John 3 and John 3:18) as it interests me how people can come to different views of salvation and what is truly required.

Just to flesh out what I'm talking about if it's not clear. Jesus is saying if you believe in him you are saved, but those who don't believe are condemned already because they have not believed in his name (like literally that he has a name and that it's Jesus). This seems like a sort of poetic way of putting that if you don't believe in him you won't be saved since the bar is so low here that people will be condemned for simply not having believed in his name. I think I'm getting this right but I know there is another view that Jesus means his fame or reputation when he says name, but it confuses me why he would use such a derelict term when he was talking about something so important. Like most people would not know that if I'm not mistaken.

Anyways, hopefully what I wrote was understandable. Really really sorry if it wasn't.

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Do not perseverate about prepositions. The obvious meaning is belief Jesus is Messiah--and all that implies.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

If you were told to believe into something what would that mean the same thing to you as being told to believe in something?

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All sin takes occasion by the command to not sin, Romans 7
We have many leaders today, that say they are right and you are wrong, with you better or else attitudes, which is of the first born flesh. Romans 8:1-3 that cannot please God
Everyone puts on their pants one leg at a time. There is only one person that did everything perfect, everything under Law in love for us all, to reconcile us all from under Law to uphold Law, as good to do willingly between God and you. That is done once perfectly forever in his being risen as proof, he is the way, the truth and new life offered in his risen Life Spiritually.
We once knew Christ in the flesh, today no more. Only in Father's Spirit and Truth presently, daily forever in love and mercy given us to love all. sincerely as Daddy, Father, PaPa lead in risen Son to see new in Father's Spirit and Truth of love and mercy to all
Thanks

Saving faith for Israel required elements of works and constancy whereas saving faith according to the gospel of grace for the gentiles requires faith only.

timf said:

Saving faith for Israel required elements of works and constancy whereas saving faith according to the gospel of grace for the gentiles requires faith only.

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Not per Eph. 2:11-18, 3:2-12, 4:4-6, 17-24, 5:1-10, 6:10-18,
for starters.

This is what that verse really says

Not per Eph. 2:11-18, 3:2-12, 4:4-6, 17-24, 5:1-10, 6:10-18,
for starters.

Ephesians was not written to those of Israel..

LeeLoving said:

John 3:18
King James Version
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Is simply believing in Jesus (like that he is a person and that he exists) enough to be saved considering what he says here in John 3:18?

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Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The Bible says we have to believe Jesus is Savior and His death, burial, and resurrection to be saved.

To believe on Jesus is to believe these things for we have to believe in what He did for our salvation.

We cannot believe that He exists and that is it.

For that is not believing on Him.

And if they only believe He existed then how is there salvation if they do not confess their sins to have them forgiven, and do not receive the Spirit.

That would be like the world that says I believe in God and am a good person.

But there is more to it than that.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The Bible says those that call on the name of the Lord shall be saved which they acknowledge His Savior role for they are calling on Him.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

To believe on Jesus is to believe His Savior role.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

You cannot only believe He exists for there must be a life change to believe His blood washes away sins and strive to be Christlike.

People that only believe He exists do not do that.

The Bible says believe Jesus is the Savior, believe the death, burial, and resurrection, confess our sins, allow the Spirit to work in your life to be saved.

timf said:

Not per Eph. 2:11-18, 3:2-12, 4:4-6, 17-24, 5:1-10, 6:10-18,
for starters.

Ephesians was not written to those of Israel..

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So what? You don't think it applies to both Jews and Gentiles?
I suggest you read and digest the passages I cited, beginning with Eph. 4:4-6.

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

timf said:

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

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Yes, but that was a matter of priority, not a proscription against witnessing to Jews, and note Gal. 3:26-29.
I notice you did not answer my question (after reading Eph. 4:4-6): You don't think Ephesians applies to both Jews and Gentiles?
But I guess Gal. 3:26-29 answers the question for you, right?

What comes to mind is " Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” In that day they all saw Him that He was real.. so when He said for God so loved the world gave His only son that who so ever believes in Him will not die but have ever lasting life. That belief is who He said He was. Its written Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent

Believe in Him.. is to have a active trust and reliance on Him as the Messiah, the Son of God, who alone offers eternal life, not just intellectual agreement; it's about entrusting your life, present plans, and eternal destiny to Him, recognizing His words as truth and relying on His power to change you and grant salvation

You don't think Ephesians applies to both Jews and Gentiles?

I think the body of Christ was a mystery separate from the earthly kingdom offered to Israel. If the nation of Israel had been faithful and received the kingdom, there would have been no need for the body of Christ to be revealed.

The overlap in time of the kingdom offer to the nation of Israel and the revelation of the body of Christ may have been to provoke the Jews to jealousy and to extend every possible chance to Israel. One might see the book of Hebrews as representative of this plaintive cry for Israel to receive her Messiah.

The body of Christ is open to both Jew and gentile. However, there was always the hope that the nation of Israel would have been found faithful. However even the events of 66-70AD proved insufficient. In the future the tribulation will provide events that result in a faithful Israel finally receiving her Messiah.

timf said:

You don't think Ephesians applies to both Jews and Gentiles?

I think the body of Christ was a mystery separate from the earthly kingdom offered to Israel. If the nation of Israel had been faithful and received the kingdom, there would have been no need for the body of Christ to be revealed.

The overlap in time of the kingdom offer to the nation of Israel and the revelation of the body of Christ may have been to provoke the Jews to jealousy and to extend every possible chance to Israel. One might see the book of Hebrews as representative of this plaintive cry for Israel to receive her Messiah.

The body of Christ is open to both Jew and gentile. However, there was always the hope that the nation of Israel would have been found faithful. However even the events of 66-70AD proved insufficient. In the future the tribulation will provide events that result in a faithful Israel finally receiving her Messiah.

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Yes, in Ephesians 2-3 Paul says the inclusion of the Gentiles in the body of Christ was a mystery until revealed to him.
Not sure what you mean by no need for the revelation of Christ's body, which was partially revealed to Isaiah.
Yes, Paul describes the inclusion of the Gentiles as a provocation to jealousy in Romans.
Yes, Hebrews is a plea for Jews to accept Messiah and the NC.
Yes, there was always hope Israel would be faithful, although Moses foresaw it would not always be so.
It can be hoped that many Jews will become Messianic by the end of His story.

timf said:

Saving faith for Israel required elements of works and constancy whereas saving faith according to the gospel of grace for the gentiles requires faith only.

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Isn't that convenient? Doesn't this ring a bell? This is itching ears theology, that is all dispensationalism is. Church gets a free ride, no one else does. This is why you MUST reject dispensationalism and preferably any other isms.

To believe in Jesus unto salvation (john 3:18) is not only to believe in His existence and in facts about Jesus, including that He is the Son of God and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened", but we must also trust in Jesus /His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-26; 4:5-6; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 etc..).

timf said:

Not per Eph. 2:11-18, 3:2-12, 4:4-6, 17-24, 5:1-10, 6:10-18,
for starters.

Ephesians was not written to those of Israel..

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You're making the assumption that only gentiles were present in that assembly. That wasn't the reality back then. The apostle John is reported to have ministered there

timf said:

You don't think Ephesians applies to both Jews and Gentiles?

I think the body of Christ was a mystery separate from the earthly kingdom offered to Israel. If the nation of Israel had been faithful and received the kingdom, there would have been no need for the body of Christ to be revealed.

The overlap in time of the kingdom offer to the nation of Israel and the revelation of the body of Christ may have been to provoke the Jews to jealousy and to extend every possible chance to Israel. One might see the book of Hebrews as representative of this plaintive cry for Israel to receive her Messiah.

The body of Christ is open to both Jew and gentile. However, there was always the hope that the nation of Israel would have been found faithful. However even the events of 66-70AD proved insufficient. In the future the tribulation will provide events that result in a faithful Israel finally receiving her Messiah.

Click to expand...

An earthly kingdom was never offered to Israel. It is something they demanded, and God accommodated their rebellion in order to teach them a lesson that kingdoms ruled by men are a bad thing. Such was never God's plan.

The holy nation of God populated by a fullness of gentiles was the plan from the beginning. Jacob clearly saw this and prophesied in Genesis 48:19 that the seed of Israel would become a fullness of gentiles, as promised to Abraham that his seed would become as the stars of heaven in number.

The idea that a future tribulation will miraculously produce obedience in natural Israel that all previous tribulation was unable to produce is just pure fantasy.