Does the Parable of the Wedding Banquet confirm the abrogation of the Israelites and invitation to the Gentiles?

Needevidence said:

It doesn’t say they are wiped out forever, the "Ten Lost Tribes" weren't entirely lost, Amalekites were not completely lost.

But the entity was destroyed.

It would be helpful to know how do you interpret the parable –

• Who was invited initially?
• Who killed the servants (I understand that as the prophets)?
• Who was destroyed?
• Who was then invited?

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The parable was "general"

Those invited were the Jews ( but of course RP adherents can't even agree that "Israel" is "Jews".
So all debate is tedious since they depart from the bible.

Those that responded are anyone and everyone.
The second batch , again, was anyone and everyone.

You are taking 3 or 4 invitees and transposition them onto the entire nation.

144,000 Jews is First-fruits.
Firstfruits is a small portion of MAIN HARVEST.

Those, "later responders", responding and attending, have no ethnicity mentioned.

So nobody can claim the entire nation of Israel is thrown in the trash can.
Same for the Gentiles.
Ruth represents the Gentile church.
We know the church is not prohibitive of Jewish members.

Israel can only be saved by becoming born again believers like any other man or woman.

Rev 14:14 is Jews seeing Jesus and responding. Rev 14:1 is firstfruit born again Jews.
So any Jew gathered is born again.

There is nothing in the bible concerning israel that voids other verses somebody finds to throw the Jews in the trash can forever.

All the bible stay on the table.
Throwing verses out the window is not sincere bible study.

Yes Israel is the first invited.
Yes we see them to this day reject Jesus.

It is all under control once romans 9-11 , and the 2 wives of God are put back on the table.

Needevidence said:

No, the parable was not general – because before that only the Israelites were chosen – Matt 15:24 - He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

Aarguably your making light of Jesus words, mothing he said was trivial / general chit-chat. Your also cherry picking.

Who do you say was destroyed & when (IMO Israelites / temple AD70)?

The Israelites were called and they killed the servants’ meaning prophets.

Matt 23:37-39 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets …………………….


Then others were invited ie the gentiles are also now invited and other who followed Jesus such as his disciples – so yes Israelites can also be saved, but the point is that it was no longer just the Israelites.


Where does it say 3 or 4 invitees?

As to the rest that’s your misunderstanding of the bible that Israel / Jews of today are the same people in the bible and they have ‘forever’ ben chosen / favoured regardless and will be grafted in – especially the country of Israel we have today. Putting aside that most don’t even believe in God and even more don’t believe in the OT, they see it as a history book and follow the evil Talmud.


Just a few examples;

Jews came from the tribe of Judah even that long after Judah. Not all the 12 tribes were Jews.

Israelites – children of Jacob (Israel) – 12 tribes – not a state or country Israel. It’s a race not a nation.

There is no such thing as ‘forever’ the word ‘olam’: long duration, antiquity, futurity

Deut 11:26-27

26 See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse—

27 the blessing if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today;

28 the curse if you disobey the commands of the LORD your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known.


Jeremiah 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD

Jeremiah 11:10 - They have turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers who refused to hear My words, and they have gone after other gods to serve them; the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken My covenant which I made with their fathers.”

Matt 21:43 - Therefore, say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


Hebrew 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Matthew 25:46. - 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


This is just a little summary with much more.

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Apparently you are trying to make a replacement theology spin on the bible.

The problem is that rom 9-11 destroys that antisemitism .

ask a replacement theology adherent to elaborate on the 144,000 of Revelation.
They will go on and on about it, ascribing wild ideas to it.
....instead of what THE BIBLE SAYS.

Then for even more entertainment, ask one of them to elaborate on rev14: 1-14.

It is amazing what they cook up.

Psalm1 said:

Apparently you are trying to make a replacement theology spin on the bible.

The problem is that rom 9-11 destroys that antisemitism .

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Define replacement theology and how Romans 9-11 destroys it

Psalm1 said:

Replacement theology.
It states Israel is wiped out forever. They are reduced to nothing.

So when you see those adherents, they sorta preach from a different bible, where even romans 9-11 ( a no brainer) , gets twisted into; "see, see, Israel is cut off forever."
Replacement theology is a spirit, and it basically polutes the entire bible.

I guess in the book of Ruth, Ruth is not a Gentile, and Naomi actually should be banished.
Once the twisting starts, it spreads into a changed bible eventually.

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The Parable of the Banquet has nothing about race or nationality, being a Jew or Gentile. What Parable does say is that whoever receives an invitation to the feast COULD POTENTIALLY attend the feast. The invitation gives to each one the right to be admitted into the celebration. Some preferred to follow trivial pursuits of their lives did not come because they did not count the cost and decide undertake make the journey to the Banquet House. Instead, they became distracted and misled by the "affairs of this life and the lusts of other things". The last part of the Parable concludes with “Many are called but few are chosen” (Matthew 22:14) So, in the end who are the CHOSEN? Are they not those who RESPONDED to the invitation? This is simple enough to understand but dogmatic determinists must create a "back story" in order to smuggle in the Manichaen beliefs of the false teacher Augustine.

Needevidence said:

• Who was invited initially?

• Who killed the servants (I understand that as the prophets)?

• Who was destroyed?

• Who was then invited?

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Simple Sunday school questions are often of value, so I will have a go at answering:

1. "Them that were bidden" were initially invited to the feast, and I think it is safe to say that means the the children of Israel.

2. The "remnant" (v.6 kjv) killed the prophets. "Lord, they have killed thy prophets" Romans 11:3. The remnant I assume is either the children of Israel, or a sub-group within that fold.

3. The king " destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city" in v.7.
Jerusalem was destroyed after the crucifixion of Jesus and with it the nation of Israel.

4. "As many as they found, both bad and good" (v.10) were gathered and invited.
Not all of them were judged worthy Vs.11-14.

Psalm1 said:

Apparently you are trying to make a replacement theology spin on the bible.
The problem is that rom 9-11 destroys that antisemitism .

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Define replacement theology and how Romans 9-11 destroys it

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Bump for reminder

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Bump for reminder

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Romans 9
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed


Romans 11
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

Bump for reminder

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Romans 11
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence .
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Psalm1 said:

Romans 9
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed


Romans 11
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

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That's not what I asked for, but OK.

God has not cast away his people whom he foreknew; those whom he foreknew are the election, ie, the remnant according to grace, the children of promise. Those are the ones who he did not cast away. Those he didn't foreknow were broken off and cast away.

Needevidence said:

Yes - that’s pretty straight forward I thought - but many seem to have a problem - I would just add at 4. The gentiles are also invited now

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Yes
The Gentile church is the "second born"
As in Isaac, Jacob, Solomon, etc.

That is the illustration of the the second born...(us)...PRECEDING the Jewish covenant people.

Rev14:14 is the gathering of the "firstborn" covenant Jews, completely separate harvest, and which comes way after the second born..(the Gentile church raptured to heaven)

Without that component the parable makes little sense, because there is no attention given to location or if the ones invited "that refused", ever later attend .

The wedding in heaven has those of rev14:1-14 IN HEAVEN, and could be as guests or a actual part of the wedding.

That component is Ruth Boaz And Naomi.

With all components on the table understanding begins to be revealed.

That is why replacement theology is way way off.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

That's not what I asked for, but OK.

God has not cast away his people whom he foreknew; those whom he foreknew are the election, ie, the remnant according to grace, the children of promise. Those are the ones who he did not cast away. Those he didn't foreknow were broken off and cast away.

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Romans 11
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Psalm1 said:

Romans 11
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

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No one's disputing that believing branches will be grafted in

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

No one's disputing that believing branches will be grafted in

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

No one's disputing that believing branches will be grafted in

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Rev14:1-14.

Is not, and can not be the church.

Yet they are gathered at the appearing.
( complete with Jewish firstfruits [144000] gathered before the main gathering of Jews)
7 years of Jacob's trouble
If it is transposed onto "churches trouble" then yes you could be "right".

Psalm1 said:

The Gentile church is the "second born"

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I can not see how "Gentile church" can be a Biblical concept.
If Jesus is the King, it does not originate from the Gentiles.
Consider this description of the church:

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Would it not be bazaar to call this Israel of God "Gentile"?
Does that imply that Jews (including Jesus) are only included as guests?

Psalm1 said:

Jewish covenant people.

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Is that the covenant with Abraham that you have in mind?

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Psalm1 said:

The wedding in heaven has those of rev14:1-14 IN HEAVEN, and could be as guests or a actual part of the wedding.

That component is Ruth Boaz And Naomi.

With all components on the table understanding begins to be revealed.

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I have never been introduced to a teaching like that about Ruth Boaz and Naomi, and lack this understanding.
Can you please explain it to us?

Needevidence said:

I have seen this on another site and wonder if this is the correct explanation to Matt 22 – that the Israelites are destroyed and the kingdom is taken from them and the gentiles are now invited.



Matthew 22:1-10 - for ease of reference

22 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying:

2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son.

3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business.

6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them.

7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come.

9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’

10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.



Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges commentary states:

As of the other parables of the Passion, the primary intention of this regards the present and the immediate future. The parable falls into two divisions, (1) vv. 1 7; (2) vv. 8 14. In the first (1) the servants are John Baptist and the first disciples of Christ; the feast is the Kingdom of God, or the Christian Church; the invited guests, who refuse to come, are the Jews; the vengeance taken was literally fulfilled at the siege of Jerusalem, a. d. 70. (2) This division relates to the preaching of the Gospel to the Gentiles. As in the Net (ch. 13:47) or in the Corn-field (ch. 13:24), worthy and unworthy are mingled until the King separates.

Matt 23:37-39 at the conclusion of Jesus' teaching in the Temple:
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

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Yeah to the Jew first.. then to the world. Not sure why some just picked up "cut off" which was not said here at all. From the start this has always been around saving the world. Abraham counting the stars.. yeah all of Israel can never come close to all the stars. To God there is just one vine and one body period. We here divide we see different peoples.. colors.. Churches.. not Him. Yeah He came to His own.. they rejected Him so ...here we are. To them first He came... and it was them the 12(Israel) that took His word to the World! Its way I believe.

Needevidence said:

I have seen this on another site and wonder if this is the correct explanation to Matt 22 – that the Israelites are destroyed and the kingdom is taken from them and the gentiles are now invited.

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Precious friend, this may just be the 'needed Evidence' for the explanation. Enjoy!:

And, precious friend, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

Among the invited guests, only those dressed in proper attire get to stay at the banquet, those who are not properly attired are thrown out. They are thrown out because of their self righteousness, they though they could earn their own ticket to the banquet, but the proper attire is the white robe washed in the blood of Christ, symbolizing righteousness, it is handed out by the angels to the righteous, see Rev. 6.