Seeing or Blind? A Question Raised by John 9:41

DimitrisNt said:

Hello everyone.
My name is Dimitris. I was born and raised in the Church of Christ, which I continue to serve to this day. I am a new member of the CC community, and I would like to share with you a verse from the Gospel according to John.

Specifically, I am referring to John 9:41, which says:

King James Version (KJV) — John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Based on this verse, I would like to ask for your opinion.

Do you believe that this passage also applies to christians and our lives today?

For example, if someone follows a wrong path due to an incorrect interpretation of the Word of God, yet claims that his interpretation is correct—therefore saying, “I see”—while in reality he may be spiritually blind, could this be considered sin that remainth?

If there is an answer to this question found in the Word of God, it would be my joy to have it shared with me, even though we all know that there is a multitude of interpretations regarding various passages of Scripture.

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I see Matthew 7 as your answer

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Here are folks professing to be followers of Christ doing all sorts of "Good works" and yet Christ tells them they are sinful - working iniquity, which is Lawlessness.

DimitrisNt said:

Hello everyone.
My name is Dimitris. I was born and raised in the Church of Christ, which I continue to serve to this day. I am a new member of the CC community, and I would like to share with you a verse from the Gospel according to John.

Specifically, I am referring to John 9:41, which says:

King James Version (KJV) — John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Based on this verse, I would like to ask for your opinion.

Do you believe that this passage also applies to christians and our lives today?

For example, if someone follows a wrong path due to an incorrect interpretation of the Word of God, yet claims that his interpretation is correct—therefore saying, “I see”—while in reality he may be spiritually blind, could this be considered sin that remainth?

If there is an answer to this question found in the Word of God, it would be my joy to have it shared with me, even though we all know that there is a multitude of interpretations regarding various passages of Scripture.

Click to expand...

Because many who claims to be Christians are not protected to the end. All believers must go through the test to see if they will hold on to their faith in Christ.
Every day for believers is a daily struggle. it's not easy to keep the faith in God. That's why it says to put God as a frontlet or have a tassel sown on the corner of your garment as a reminder to prevent us from falling away.

And so, there's no guarantee that all Christians will be with God someday while darkness is on the prowl

Matthew 10:22
You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.


Luke 8:13
Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.


Matthew 7:23
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Luke 8:14
The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature.

Numbers 15:39
You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the Lord, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by chasing after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes.

Deuteronomy 11:18
Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.

DimitrisNt said:

Do you believe that this passage also applies to christians and our lives today?

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Absolutely. It's universal to human nature. The pharisees thought they were righteous, which blinded them to their unrighteous condition and kept them from believing and having their sins cleansed.

A similar thing was said to the church in Laodicea

DimitrisNt said:

Hello everyone.
My name is Dimitris. I was born and raised in the Church of Christ, which I continue to serve to this day. I am a new member of the CC community, and I would like to share with you a verse from the Gospel according to John.

Specifically, I am referring to John 9:41, which says:

King James Version (KJV) — John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Based on this verse, I would like to ask for your opinion.

Do you believe that this passage also applies to christians and our lives today?

For example, if someone follows a wrong path due to an incorrect interpretation of the Word of God, yet claims that his interpretation is correct—therefore saying, “I see”—while in reality he may be spiritually blind, could this be considered sin that remainth?

If there is an answer to this question found in the Word of God, it would be my joy to have it shared with me, even though we all know that there is a multitude of interpretations regarding various passages of Scripture.

Click to expand...

Howdy and welcome Dim! I really enjoyed touristing thru Greece in 2008 including the Ag. Dimitrios vic. Korinthos.

Re John 9:41: I believe this verse can be read in connection with 1John 1:8 as applicable to Christians not confessing post-conversion sins, but John 9:40 makes it obvious that the crucial application was to folks who supposedly worship God but reject His Messiah and thus should be understood in connection with John 8:42-44.

In context, Jesus immediately begins teaching about the shepherd and the sheep and how the sheep "hear" the shepherd's voice. Of course, He is the Good Shepherd and those who hear the Lord in their spirits are His sheep.

He ends the teaching with this:

“How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Clearly, what Jesus did was a visible witness of Who He was: the Christ. This was a witness able to be discerned, physically, by all men as long as they had natural eyes.

"The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me."

This should be incontrovertible proof of His Lordship to anyone who witnesses His ministry. Remember: the issue is about "Who is the Lord?" and in His parable "Who is the Good Shepherd?".

My point: THAT is the linchpin of their spiritual blindness - although they claim to see clearly they are blind to what is in front of their face. Jesus, speaking as the Good Shepherd, is in their midst but they cannot "see Him" for who He is.

And to your point: without receiving the Jesus Christ as Savior, our sin remains and we have no salvation.

To them, the religious leaders of His day, this is a sin that leads to death because their is no life apart from being in Jesus Christ.

This is in His parable:
"I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."

The only doctrine at stake in John 9 is "Christ is the Lord and Savior". On this doctrine men are divided into only two groups: goats or His sheep.

Hi Dimitris. I also grew up in the church of Christ, but have moved on to another church.

John 9:41 is talking about placing faith in Christ (we were blind) instead of believing salvation comes from following laws (we see). They believed that they perfectly followed the law, which they did not and could not, so they became blind to the true source of salvation, which is belief in Jesus.

There are Judiazers today still believe they can achieve salvation through following laws. It's no different now than it was then. No one can perfectly follow the law except Jesus.

DimitrisNt said:

Hello everyone.
My name is Dimitris. I was born and raised in the Church of Christ, which I continue to serve to this day. I am a new member of the CC community, and I would like to share with you a verse from the Gospel according to John.

Specifically, I am referring to John 9:41, which says:

King James Version (KJV) — John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Based on this verse, I would like to ask for your opinion.

Do you believe that this passage also applies to christians and our lives today?

For example, if someone follows a wrong path due to an incorrect interpretation of the Word of God, yet claims that his interpretation is correct—therefore saying, “I see”—while in reality he may be spiritually blind, could this be considered sin that remainth?

If there is an answer to this question found in the Word of God, it would be my joy to have it shared with me, even though we all know that there is a multitude of interpretations regarding various passages of Scripture.

Click to expand...

If I (Jesus had not come here to earth first) they, the religious leaders would not have known the truth, that they are using God to get their own ways. Still happening today, the selfishness read Phil 3 please

Matthew 6:25-34
Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? .

Yet, we still take thought(s) do we not? how to take all thought captive? 2 Cor. 10:5-6 and see to remain in humility, no matter how much anyone thinks they know, Phil. 3:12-15. God only knows, no one else not everything as God does, not stopping his love and mercy to us through Son for us all.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

yet, by God through Son as risen, God continues to work with us each and never condemns anyone as I know I have in past done that, and see to not do that anymore, as I see God doing that now through me. Me not under Law anymore Romans 7. Now upholding Law Romans 3:31

One, Might not be on their way, yet God is and does not quit to teach anyone truth over error in this world still. Thank you Father and Son as Won for us all. Wow, Isaiah 6:1-7
Eph 1:13, 6-7 Sealed by God accepted by God, and forgiven by God, it is done for us to be new in God's Spirit and Truth and not try to be what God has done for us all, you think? Col 1:21-22 then see to stand and remain in trust to God in the done work of Son for you too, thank you

Therefore, is it done for you to see new in risen Son for you to learn new in trust to Father in risen Son where there is no sin,? We, I, have still sinned because of my being in an unredeemed body, not in 100% belief to it is done for me too, John 19:30. Time to reckon me dead Romans 6:12, 1-15
Yet I do believe this truth 100% in God's Spirit and Truth but not in the flesh I am in. This unredeemed flesh I am in wants to be noticed by others to be pleased in self and think we go it, when we do not, yet God does in risen Son where new life in Father's Spirit and Truth begins
Beleive God, recieve truth from God in love and mercy to all. begin and grow new in this grace given you to mature in Hebrews 5:12- Chapter 6
God does love us all 1 John 2:1-27 locoing beers 27 from God
And welcome here,

DimitrisNt said:

Thank you very much all for sharing your thoughts.

I understand what you are trying to say, and I obviously agree that there are people who “honor God with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him.” , in another point Mr. Krinkle mentioned that our sins , and our blindles for our sins is that make us more blind that i also agree.

However, what I want to focus on is this perspective: in my own life, where might such blind spots exist?

For example (and just example i dont want to make it personal ) , we all believe that we belong to the most correct church among those around us, based on what we personally understand as true worship. At the same time, there are Protestant communities that believe it is acceptable to marry and divorce two or three times, depending on their beliefs. What they practice and obey, they consider to be right, even if there are passages in Scripture or interpretations from other churches that say the opposite.

What I want to understand for myself is this: are there areas that, in your opinion, are worth examining more closely within the church and trying to correct, at least on a personal level? Or is this scripture only referring to people who do not accept Christ, and everything else is of lesser importance?

I ask this because, while I believe that what we teach in our church and the positions we take on various doctrinal issues are correct, I wonder whether I might still be blind in certain areas, perhaps because I am closed to different interpretations.

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I have some experiences with the Churches of Christ and have mixed feelings.

It was a widely-held belief for a long time that the CoC was the one true church and all others were lost. This seems to be loosing steam but is still strongly believed in some locations. The claim to not be a denomination, but effectively function as one. I'm not big on denominations. One issue that I had a big problem with was with musical instruments; though some CoC have started incorporating musical instruments. They claim musical instruments aren't mentioned in the New Testament so that's why they don't use them. Overhead projectors aren't mentioned in the New Testament either but many CoC use them.

I remember reading a book a few years ago that was published by the CoC. I can't remember the name, but it was a collection of articles published during the year by CoC members. I remember them debating things like whether pitch pipes were acceptable in the worship service and decrying children's ministries; among other things. Things like this just make them look petty and silly, in my opinion.

I do think their teaching on baptism missies the mark. I like their focus on the importance of baptism, but I disagree with them on baptism itself actually saving; faith is what saves. I attended a CoC once, that counselled me I had to get baptized in the CoC to become a member. I attended a Cambellite Christian Church that told me the same thing.

I've met a lot of really loving and sincere people in the CoC and I believe most of their doctrine is solid. Like most groups there are positives and negatives. In Revelation, Jesus found both good and bad in the 7 churches. There was only one, I believe, that didn't get any criticism. If I had one bit of advice for the CoC it would be: Don't worry so much about trivial matters and forcus on what's truly important. As Jesus said in Matthew 23:23: "For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith."

Do you believe that this passage also applies to christians and our lives today?

The context is John 9 is the man born blind. At the end of the chapter Jesus describes the judgment he brings as helping those who were "blind" see and causing those who declare themselves sighted to be blind. This is specifically talking about the Pharisees whose question Jesus was answering.

The Pharisees were blinded by their own pride and were unable to consider that Jesus was the Messiah.

There are applications beyond the Pharisees. For example, the principle that if you think you know everything, you will be unable to learn anything might be drawn from this specific incident.

DimitrisNt said:

Hello everyone.
My name is Dimitris. I was born and raised in the Church of Christ, which I continue to serve to this day. I am a new member of the CC community, and I would like to share with you a verse from the Gospel according to John.

Specifically, I am referring to John 9:41, which says:

King James Version (KJV) — John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Based on this verse, I would like to ask for your opinion.

Do you believe that this passage also applies to christians and our lives today?

For example, if someone follows a wrong path due to an incorrect interpretation of the Word of God, yet claims that his interpretation is correct—therefore saying, “I see”—while in reality he may be spiritually blind, could this be considered sin that remainth?

If there is an answer to this question found in the Word of God, it would be my joy to have it shared with me, even though we all know that there is a multitude of interpretations regarding various passages of Scripture.

Click to expand...

JESUS said that HE came here for us to "SEE"

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

Like HE said in John 3:5 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

HE also said if not reborn we can not "SEE" HIS kingdom.

Many people are stuck on interpreting HIS word and just not OBEYING HIS word.

It's all about foundation, this is what he says in John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

We have to be born of water AND of spirit TO ENTER.

The first message that JESUS promised to be preached is the one most debated.

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

JESUS offers us a path to be reborn but so many people just will not obey and accept the fact that we need to be baptized in JESUS name and HE WILL fill us with the Holy Ghost so HE can lead us.

A lot will JUST NOT ACCEPT it, so it has nothing to do with interpreting HIS word and everything to do with accepting what it says.

DimitrisNt said:

Hello everyone.
My name is Dimitris. I was born and raised in the Church of Christ, which I continue to serve to this day. I am a new member of the CC community, and I would like to share with you a verse from the Gospel according to John.

Specifically, I am referring to John 9:41, which says:

King James Version (KJV) — John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Based on this verse, I would like to ask for your opinion.

Do you believe that this passage also applies to christians and our lives today?

For example, if someone follows a wrong path due to an incorrect interpretation of the Word of God, yet claims that his interpretation is correct—therefore saying, “I see”—while in reality he may be spiritually blind, could this be considered sin that remainth?

If there is an answer to this question found in the Word of God, it would be my joy to have it shared with me, even though we all know that there is a multitude of interpretations regarding various passages of Scripture.

Click to expand...

The mystery of Marriage
The two shall be One, speaking of Son as now risen Father and Son married as Won for us all, in Spirit and Truth. Not of flesh and blood. In continued belief, Son is risen where new life in anyone that believes this truth, new life begins, we get sealed by God to see, Eph 1:13 and be married to God also. We, be led in Father's Spirit and Truth as (John 4:23-24) married, to me anyways. 1 John 2:27 and no more needing anyone else to teach us truth, God Father does that in us and through us, at least me. seeing me as dead Romans 6:12 daily, alive in God's Spirit and Truth daily.
That above is the mystery of marriage from God Father and Son who won over death, Is risen now forever for us to be the same presently, daily. Done, once for us all to be confident John 16:33, will we be? I Trust Father to reveal this truth, in Daddy's own timing, not mine or any other flesh person.

Yet, we have earth marriage, and many problems over it. You must be pure, and no one is, Only God is. We, I at least can see this from the Old (First) Testament. No one could do perfection under Law and even before Law was ever instituted to reveal our not able to be perfect, with God's help or not. It has always been Faith, Belief and not quitting that no matter what troubles happen to us. to see what is now, Col 1:21-22 for us to stand in thankfulness Psalm 103:12 , fulfilled in Son, Jesus for us first.
You are correct, no one can see in God's Spirit and Truth until one, anyone gives the self up to God personally, to teach them truth in love and mercy given them, through Son first. Love Father above all others, is first, then the second comes naturally, no having to work for it or at it anymore. Yet is unfortunately is taught to do or else attitudes of any religion. Works do not sAve, the done work of Son first reconciled us all to Father 2 Cor 5:17-22
So, God did it for us, in our undeserved place to get given this new life in the risen Christ to lead, Only if one will be willing. for Father between Father and each personally having, trust prayer, Father will teach, lead anyone to be able to stand through any and all troubles. I say willing again. Then Father is ready, able and willing to teach us each from any and all mistakes we all make, not able to be perfect on our own. As we all see in the new born new you, given you by Father alone with risen Son. You see all as equal, even those that do not believe yet, as well as all religions that state they are the way, and you better get it together
Jesus the risen is the way, the truth and new life offered in his risen Life to see and be with Father forever, wow, woe is me Isaiah 6:1-7
Where you are married forever, Thank you Father Psalm 100:4
Believe, receive and see new daily, willing always to put past behind you as forgiven Phil 3:1-20 thanks God has married you on the very first day you chose to beleive God. God did it, accept it. Tell Father in prayer you need to know truth over error, as you have done so already. Now stand in trust Col 1:23, see again what is done Col 1:21-22

DimitrisNt said:

Thank you very much for your response. I think I fully agree with you. There is one mistake I would like to correct. In Greece, as far as I know, we do not have Churches of Christ (CoC). When I used the term Church of Christ, I did so with the understanding that I belong to the Church of Christ in the biblical sense, independent of any denominational label.

That said, for the sake of clarity and background, I should mention that I am part of a Pentecostal church that is independent , with no formal connection to any church abroad. It operates on its own and has its own branches.

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Indeed, a very important clarification. Thank you.

DimitrisNt said:

Hello everyone.
My name is Dimitris. I was born and raised in the Church of Christ, which I continue to serve to this day. I am a new member of the CC community, and I would like to share with you a verse from the Gospel according to John.

Specifically, I am referring to John 9:41, which says:

King James Version (KJV) — John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Based on this verse, I would like to ask for your opinion.

Do you believe that this passage also applies to christians and our lives today?

For example, if someone follows a wrong path due to an incorrect interpretation of the Word of God, yet claims that his interpretation is correct—therefore saying, “I see”—while in reality he may be spiritually blind, could this be considered sin that remainth?

If there is an answer to this question found in the Word of God, it would be my joy to have it shared with me, even though we all know that there is a multitude of interpretations regarding various passages of Scripture.

Click to expand...

I presume you read the context of this verse. What do you think was the sin the pharisees were guilty of in this context?

DimitrisNt said:

Hello everyone.
My name is Dimitris. I was born and raised in the Church of Christ, which I continue to serve to this day. I am a new member of the CC community, and I would like to share with you a verse from the Gospel according to John.

Specifically, I am referring to John 9:41, which says:

King James Version (KJV) — John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Based on this verse, I would like to ask for your opinion.

Do you believe that this passage also applies to christians and our lives today?

For example, if someone follows a wrong path due to an incorrect interpretation of the Word of God, yet claims that his interpretation is correct—therefore saying, “I see”—while in reality he may be spiritually blind, could this be considered sin that remainth?

If there is an answer to this question found in the Word of God, it would be my joy to have it shared with me, even though we all know that there is a multitude of interpretations regarding various passages of Scripture.

Click to expand...

I would say that Christians today are even more accountable for their sin, because we have the complete canon of scripture. So, no Christian today can claim ignorance as an excuse for their sin.

If you believe that Christians are led by the Holy Spirit, then you would believe that every Christian will come to know the truth, because the Holy Spirit leads us to the truth.
If we believe on the Lord Jesus, then we will eventually be led away from those who teach false doctrine and the Holy Spirit will lead us to a faithful preacher of the Word of God.

Most of my Christian friends, didn't settle in the first Church they visited. Many of us spent years going from one Church to another, until we finally settled in one Church.
There are thousands of Christian denominations, most interpret the Bible in a similar way and they hold to a similar theological system. But there are those who hold to radically different, interpretations, they have very little in common.

I was raised in a Catholic family, our parish priest taught us that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. And I grew up believing that. I obviously don't believe that today, and I don't think that God would have held me accountable for believing that.

Luke 12:48 "For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more".

DimitrisNt said:

I ask this because, while I believe that what we teach in our church and the positions we take on various doctrinal issues are correct, I wonder whether I might still be blind in certain areas, perhaps because I am closed to different interpretations.

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I think what Jesus meant in John 9:41 is that they refused to see. None of us has perfect understanding. Simply not interpreting some scriptures correctly doesn't mean you're still in sin; but thinking you already know all there is to know and being unteachable might mean your sin remains.

The Holy Spirit is our teacher, not men; it's good to remain open to the Spirit. Unfortunately, there are a lot of human beings who try to pressure and manipulate people into accepting their interpretation of scripture. They might try to convince you that you need to be more "open" to a different interpretation, or tell you you're "blind." I'd be very cautious of people like that.