Are all the spiritual gifts still active today?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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Faith carries 3 Biblical differencesfaith is a gift
The gift-faith is not the same as the gifting of faith or the faith response from a believer.
1. God gifts faith to combat total depravity.
2. Being made aware of God, mankind is liable to their response. Faith in Jesus or deny Him.
3. Spiritual gift of faith (Faith empowered to a higher degree by the Holy Spirit).
I would say faith is the gift that leads to all gifts myself
what about what Jesus said in John 14 and 15 and Acts 1:8?
John 14:17, 26
17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 15:26-27
26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. 27 And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning
John 20:22
22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 1:8
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
WE see Jesus saying the, any things the Holy Spirit will do in the believer and when the Holy Spirit comes upon the believer.
Jesus Call HS the comforter in the Greek is = paráklētos which is "one who comes along side to help.
Jesus said he will lead us and guide us into all truth and speak of Jesus . HS will come upon us and will be in us two works of the holy Spirit in the beleiver. Jesus said the HS will empower us to be a witness of Jesus.
Why do people limit GOD Spirit when The Spirit of GOD has no limits?
So despite what the bible, quoting Jesus and Paul , say about the Holy Spirit (Ghost ) coming "upon " believers, you don't believe that?
B
Blue155
Guest
The Bible warns of a falling under a deluding influence. A blindness prepared for those who do not love the truth, a spirit that rejects reason in exchange for carnal emotion. The very heart of the Pentecostal Movement. They label "claims" of the supernatural as works of the Holy Spirit without regard for the truth. They condemn themselves by shamelessly attributing their mundane acts as "powerful works of God", much like Simon the Sorcerer did.
Yes, God does all types of great works. If you, with this lack of discernment can not see the difference between what was happening in the 1st century and what is being claimed as the same today then you are already under this influence. If you are under this power my words cannot help you. I would suggest you follow the advice given to Simon the Sorcerer by Peter... repent and pray for forgiveness.
The scriptures are full of examples of Godly miracles and how to discern them from the ungodly ones. The "miracles" of the Pentecostal Movement do not match what is taught in the scriptures.
Any honest person can see this.
The “coming delusion” is for unbelievers, not for those who have put their faith in Christ. Instead of condemning people with a broad brush, perhaps you should be praying they would have discernment.
Yes indeed. I suspect those who demand miracles object to walking by faith (Matt. 12:39, 2Cor. 5:7).
In the first century miracles were evidence but did not prove God's existence, because little was known about the laws of creation,
but today miraculous power (not magical tricks) would be defined/known as suspending the proven laws of physics, which would
cause the entire scientific world to be flabbergasted!
Here is the verse:
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
The "powerful delusion" is reserved for those who "refused to love the truth and so be saved". This is the "wickedness" of the Pentecostal Movement. They seek after miraculous signs as being the truth of God regardless of its rather human origin.
This is not a "broad brush" but the very heart of the Pentecostal Movement. They simply present mundane claims of supernatural events as works equal to what the Holy Spirit was doing in the 1st century and this is delusional. This clear distinction is the "lie" that they have accepted.
It is this distinction that a lover of the truth can see but one under the influence of delusion cannot.
Some people and some church leaders “seek after miraculous signs”. That doesn’t mean all do. I have seen “pentecostal” churches from the inside for decades, and the proportion of people you describe is very small.
Do you believe that the “narrow road” is faith in Christ, or some other sort of distinction?
Your question is both juvenile and passe.
I have made no comment on changing "proper doctrine on spiritual gifts", you simply made this up.
The proper doctrine on physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is simple, it must be real. Not merely what is being labeled as a physical supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
What is being claimed as physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit today does not line up doctrinally with scripture.
Hence the bogus nature of your question.
I believe the strong delusion will come on all who didn't love the truth. This will certainly include unbelievers, but also those who call themselves believers but rejected the truth.
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' " Matthew 7:21-23
Can you show me any scripture about a spirit that rejects the truth in exchange for __emotion__ in scripture?
I see warnings about doctrines of demons-- that sounds ideological or intellectual to me. There is a passage that speaks of warfare against principalities and powers. Another speaks of Paul's warfare that involves casting down __imaginations__ and every high _thought_ that exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ. I would not say that demons could not prey on emotions. But where do you get 'The Bible warns of....'
And when we talk about not loving the __truth__, that is an issue here. The Bible teaches that the Spirit gives certain gifts according to His will, including gifts of healing, the working of miracles, prophecy, tongues and interpretation of tongues.
So where is the scripture that cancels out that other scripture, or do you get your doctrine on this issue from somewhere else besides scripture?
>>The very heart of the Pentecostal Movement. They label "claims" of the supernatural as works of the Holy Spirit without regard for the truth. They condemn themselves by shamelessly attributing their mundane acts as "powerful works of God", much like Simon the Sorcerer did.<<
Let's talk about the teaching of scripture. The Bible teaches that the gifts I mentioned are given as the Spirit wills. It encourages prophesying in church and gives commandments of the Lord that prophesying be allowed, and gives instructions on how it is to be used in church. The commandments there also indicate that tongues and interpretation should be allowed in church, in the proper order.
Just like with many other churches, there are Pentecostals who believe that Christ died and rose again, who have faith in Christ, who have the Spirit of God in them. If there are Pentecostals who believe the gospel who obey scripture in eagerly desiring spiritual gifts and coveting to prophesy, it is not unreasonable to think that some may prophesy or operate in other gifts.
It is not your right to decide who God works through.
Anyone can string words together on the page to accuse or condemn others. Where is the scripture to back up your doctrine. If love for the truth is important for you, this should be a key concern... if you believe the scriptures.
Shouldn't an honest person who claims to believe the Bible read it and believe what it teaches?
When I was in middle school, I went to a Christian school affiliated with my church. There was a girl a grade above me who had severely crossed eyes, visibly so. She wore 'coke bottle' glasses that magnified her eyes many times over. She obviously had visual problems. An evangelist came to our church, which was in a Pentecostal denomination. He was laying hands on the sick. He walked a lady out of a wheelchair. I hadn't seen the lady. We had a lot of guests because he had spoken in a school (anti-drug message or something) as an outreach and had invited people to the meeting. I didn't know if she could walk without the wheelchair. There were lots of people getting hands laid on and being prayed for.
We had to wait outside if we got there early for the school to open. While waiting, another student told me that the girl with the vision problem was healed. I went over to where she was and interviewed her about it. The evangelist had laid hands on her. She said she didn't need her glasses. I could see with my own eyes that her eyes were healed.
There are multitudes of people who can testify of being healed, or could when they were alive. In the Pentecostal movement, this has been going on for decades. But it is not just Pentecostals either. There were healings before Azusa Street. There are Baptist churches where they have pastors anoint the sick with oil (something Pentecostals also do), where people are healed as well. And the newspapers aren't knocking down the doors of the Baptist churches, usually, as far as this goes.
For something video documented you might look up Delia Knox. There is a lot more to search through on YouTube now. Many years ago after her healing when she got up out of a wheelchair in a meeting, I looked back and found video of a show where she was the gospel singer in a wheelchair. There was even a video of her walking up the stairs to her parents house for the first time in Ohio since her healing, and I think the town mayor might have given her a key to the city or a plaque or something. There was at least one local news piece on this. They are probably more 'Charismatic' than 'Pentecostal.'
I just posted about a classmate who was healed. What about her healing do you think does not line up doctrinally with scripture?
Let's talk about Biblical doctrine. Scripture teaches the I Corinthians 12 gifts are given as the Spirit wills. Do you believe those verses are true or false?
Your asserting that all manifestations do not line up with scripture is both dumb and presumptuous. You and I both know that you haven't investigated a fraction of claims of supernatural manifestations.
Firstly, where is that in Scripture?
Secondly, “real” is a matter of your personal belief. Given your general resistance to the possibility of spiritual gifts today, I suggest that you would not believe anything you didn’t personally witness, and even then you would find some reason to dismiss it.
The Mormon Church recently posted that Marisol Pedraza Espinosa, a 26 year old resident of Tizayuca, Mexico was healed of Ovarian Cancer by the laying on of hands of the Mormon missionary Sidney Suderio. Look it up. What is different about this claim vs. yours?
So lets talk about Biblical doctrine. I do believe that the Spirit gives to whom It wills. Unlike you, I do not need a verse to accept this truth.
It is you who is being "dumb and presumptuous" to consider claims of the miraculous as evidence of the miraculous.
You win the prize for dumbest claim of the day.
"God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will." Hebrews 2:4.
So, if you don't "need a verse" to believe the verse that tells you this, how did you come by this belief?
smh...