I am a Seventh Day Adventist, Ask Me.

gotime · Sep 21, 2011

Hi, as I said I am a Seventh Day Adventist. The only reason this question answer post is here is because I have seen many people throw things at my Faith without really knowing what we believe.

So I will be answering any Bible questions you have if I can. Repeat BIBLE questions. Everything I believe and that my Church teaches is firmly based in Scripture and no where else.

Now I have a lot on my plate so please be patient with me. This post is not designed to argue but rather help those who wish to better understand our position. You do not have to agree with me in any way. I will however be using the bible to answer any questions. so if you need to discuss anything with me about a topic that you think I am wrong in then feel free. but use your Bible. I will not pay any heed to those who come in here and rant on their soap box without scripture to back them up.

In other words, lets be Christian about this. I have no need nor want to put others down. and will not respond to put downs and unchristian behaviour.

One other thing. I am a Seventh Day Adventist Pastor, and one thing I have learnt is that most Professed Seventh Day Adventists do not know what we actually believe. Why do I say this? Because While you may have read things about us and done some study. chances are, you don't understand half as much about our teaching as you think you do.

I do not pretend to know everything about how other faiths believe even though I used to be a pentecostal. I am not ignorant enough to think that I know them because I once was one. so please afford me the same respect.

That being said, May God bless us all as we draw closer to Him in truth and in Spirit.

Muskokaman · Sep 21, 2011

gotime said:

Hi, as I said I am a Seventh Day Adventist. The only reason this question answer post is here is because I have seen many people throw things at my Faith without really knowing what we believe.

So I will be answering any Bible questions you have if I can. Repeat BIBLE questions. Everything I believe and that my Church teaches is firmly based in Scripture and no where else.

Now I have a lot on my plate so please be patient with me. This post is not designed to argue but rather help those who wish to better understand our position. You do not have to agree with me in any way. I will however be using the bible to answer any questions. so if you need to discuss anything with me about a topic that you think I am wrong in then feel free. but use your Bible. I will not pay any heed to those who come in here and rant on their soap box without scripture to back them up.

In other words, lets be Christian about this. I have no need nor want to put others down. and will not respond to put downs and unchristian behaviour.

One other thing. I am a Seventh Day Adventist Pastor, and one thing I have learnt is that most Professed Seventh Day Adventists do not know what we actually believe. Why do I say this? Because While you may have read things about us and done some study. chances are, you don't understand half as much about our teaching as you think you do.

I do not pretend to know everything about how other faiths believe even though I used to be a pentecostal. I am not ignorant enough to think that I know them because I once was one. so please afford me the same respect.

That being said, May God bless us all as we draw closer to Him in truth and in Spirit.

Ok Your Sabbath when do you celebrate or keep the sabbath?

What are your views on the Nature and relationship of God, Jesus and the Holy spirit?

Are you a cessationist or continuationist?

Do you believe in Dispensationalism?

What are your views on premillenialism?

What particular Doctrine or Bible do you preach from?

Heres a few to start nice meeting you

May God Bless you Always

Selah

gotime · Sep 21, 2011

Hi Muskokaman, thanx for the questions.
You asked about the Sabbath. I celebrate the 7th day Sabbath as found in the 4th commandment.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Views on the nature and relationship of God?

Well that is a topic that I believe is beyond our ability to understand or grasp. That being said, the Bible does reveal some things. We know that God is one yet there are three. How and why we do not know. But I believe that Jesus is God the Father is God and the Holy Spirit it God. So I believe in a Trinity. If you desire scripture for my view let me know and I will provide it as soon as I am able.

Are you a cessationist or continuationist?

I believe that the Gifts are still in action today. When the Day of Pentecost came, Peter addressed the crowed about the things they were hearing and seeing. Then he quoted Joel and said this:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Notice the gifts that come from the Spirit are for all who the Lord calls. I believe the Gift is to last till Jesus comes back. Jesus promised it for the spreading of the Gospel.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The Gospel is still being preached. And as long as it is so will the Gifts of the Spirit continue.

Do you believe in Dispensationalism?

This one is a big topic so I will give bible evidence if you request it. But for now I will simply answer the question. It depends on what you mean by this term. While it is clear that God has revealed more and more of who he is throughout history. It is not true that salvation has changed. Salvation has always been by the grace of God through Faith.

2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

And so on and so on.
Throughout history there has only been one way of salvation, Faith in the savior. We look back they looked forward.

What are your views on premillenialism?

I don’t have a view. But I’ll tell you what the bible says in short. Again if you require more scripture more depth to my answer then just ask. It would be easier if it were one question at a time.
Jesus will come back in person.
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Every eye will see

Rev 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

We shall be resurrected and reign with Jesus for 1000 years.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Everyone else will stay dead until the end of the 1000 years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

That is a really brief look at it. There is much more to back it up. But that is enough to give you an Idea of my view I hope

What particular Doctrine or Bible do you preach from?
There is only one Doctrine and it is in the Bible. I preach from the KJV or NKJV. I personally prefer the KJV.

Hope these answers help a little. May God bless you. If there is more detail needed feel free to ask. But maybe one question at a time please.j

God bless you.

Slepsog4 · Sep 21, 2011

Why do you believe that Jesus preexisted as Michael the Archangel?

loveschild · Sep 21, 2011

gotime said:

Seventh-day Adventist Cult Exposed

By David J. Stewart

“There be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” —Galatians 1:7,8

The following quote is from the SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH MANUAL...

“Baptismal vow—Candidates for baptism or those being received into fellowship by profession of faith shall affirm their acceptance of the doctrinal beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the presence of the church or other properly appointed body. The minister or elder should address the following questions to the candidate(s)…

…Do you accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy? …”

SOURCE: SEVENTH-DAYADVENTISTCHURCH MANUAL, pgs. 30,31; ISBN 0-8280-1076-5; Revised 1995, 15th Edition; Review and Herald Publishing Association, Hagerstown, Maryland21740

I went ahead and skipped most of the questions (1-12) because they are doctrinally sound, which is why so many victims get deceived by this false religious cult. Seventh-day Adventists (hereafter referred to as SDAs) do adhere superficially to the Fundamental doctrines of the Bible, so it seems at a glance. However, upon closer scrutiny, when we analyze the particulars of the SDA religion, we find a cesspool of damnable heresies, bizarre teachings and a false gospel.

Seventh-day Adventists Falsely Claim They are the Only TrueChurch

The key to the preceding quote I gave you is question #13, which mandates that a person joining the SDA Church MUST (without exception) believe that “the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy.” This means that all other religions, including Baptist and Presbyterian, are viewed as being of the Devil by SDAs. SDAs arrogantly, and sinfully, teach that their organization is the only True Church, and that everyone else is following the Devil.

I can proudly say that I am a Baptist; but there’s no such thing as “The Baptist Church.” Jesus never founded a “Baptist Church.” Jesus is the foundation of the Church, period (1st Corinthians 3:11). Thus, there are numerous denominations which teach the Word of God faithfully concerning the plan of salvation. The mighty evangelist, Billy Sunday, was a Presbyterian minister. The mighty pastor, Dwight Moody, was a Baptist. Many godly pastors are non-denominational. They are all a part of the Body of Christ. For any religious group, such as the SDAs or Jehovah’s Witnesses to claim that they are the only True Church is unbiblical and a false teaching.

Interesting, from looking at the “Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists” (outlined on pages 7-17 in the SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH MANUAL), Baptists and SDAs align almost identically doctrinally concerning the Godhead, the Deity of Jesus Christ, Jesus’ Shed Blood, the Virgin Birth, et cetera. In fact, some writers such as Walter Martin have made the fatal mistake of identifying the SDAs as a Christian cult. My friend, there is NO such thing as a “Christian cult.” SDA is a demonic cult, as you will learn in the next section.

Satan is a Beautiful liar

SDA is an extremely dangerous religion because it appears as being a genuine New Testament Church; but it is not in any way. I have been contacted by several SDAs over the past few years, in response to my online writings, who allege that I don’t understand their religion, and claim that SDA is Christ’s genuine Church. I do understand their religion, and it is of the Devil.

As much as SDAs attempt to deny it, their religion is rooted in self-righteousness. SDAs hold to a particular doctrine, which is exclusive only to their religion, which they refer to as “Investigative Judgment.” The following information is again quoted directly from SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH MANUAL...

“There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement…

The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting Kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the Kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent.”

SOURCE: SEVENTH-DAYADVENTISTCHURCH MANUAL, pg. 15,16; ISBN 0-8280-1076-5; Revised 1995, 15th Edition; Review and Herald Publishing Association, Hagerstown, Maryland21740

I could literally write an entire book on the lies and false doctrines contained just in these two preceding paragraphs I’ve quoted to you. Wow, what a bunch of damnable heresies! Let’s take a closer look these SDA teachings and compare them to what the Word of God teaches. In John 5:39 Jesus commanded for us to… SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES!!! Let’s do so now.

The first thing I want to point out, which SDAs won’t, is that their religion DIDN’T exist until a wayward Baptist preacher by the name of Miller prophesied that the Lord would return in 1844, but He didn’t. 10,000 followers of Miller had sold their homes, given away all their earthly possessions, and were utterly disappointed when Jesus didn’t return in 1844. To save face, someone suggested that perhaps Miller had misunderstood the Bible, and the expected event had instead taken place in heaven. This is what they settled upon. Thus, a new religion was birthed and given the name in 1860 of Seventh-day Adventism.

There is absolutely nothing in the Bible to support such a bizarre claim by SDAs. By manipulating numbers and dates in the Bible, one can predict just about anything. Jehovah’s Witnesses have their own little cute way of ripping apart the Bible to make their false doctrines fit. SDAs have done the same thing, i.e., they have corrupted the Word of God in order to accommodate their false teachings.

It is very important to realize that SDA did not exist prior to Miller’s failed prophecy. If, as SDAs claim, the Bible teaches that the Lord would return in 1844, then why did only Miller and his followers believe this? The very manner in which the SDA religion came into existence is irrefutable proof that they are a manmade false religion.
Page 15 of the SDA Church Manual states: “In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry.” There is absolutely nothing in the Word of God teaching such nonsense. You can search the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you won’t find anything about a “second phase” of Jesus’ atonement ministry. Even more bizarre is the ridiculous claim that the second phase began in 1844. Why hasn’t anyone, from any other religion, interpreted the Bible in such a way? It is only SDAs who make such bizarre claims, because their founders were made the laughing stock of an entire nation when Jesus failed to return in 1844.
Page 15 of the SDA Church Manual states: “It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin…” SDAs are liars. 1st John 1:7 states: “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” It is Jesus’ precious blood that washes away our sins, and nothing else. SDAs teach that Jesus’ blood sacrifice is insufficient by itself to pay for our sins; teaching instead that a separate work which Christ began in the year 1844 A.D. is absolutely essential to one’s salvation. This bizarre doctrine is nowhere taught in the Bible.
Page 15 and 16 of the SDA Church Manual states: “The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting Kingdom.” This plainly teaches works salvation. No one is worthy of salvation. SDAs teach that in order to enter into God’s everlasting Kingdom, the prerequisites of abiding in Christ and keeping God’s commandments must first be met. This is self-righteousness and a sure road to Hell.

Page 16 further states: “This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the Kingdom.” In other words, by our good works we prove that we are worthy of the salvation which was freely given in Christ. But what about those believers who commit horrible sins, deliberately disobey the commandments of God, fail to remain loyal, and follow Christ afar off? You see, SDA only works for those who are self-righteous. According to SDA doctrine, a person who lives in sin and fails to abide in Christ cannot go to Heaven. Clearly, the life one lives is a part of saving faith in the SDA religion.

Seventh-day Adventists Call God a Liar

The mythical doctrine of “Investigative Judgment” is based upon the idea of Christ analyzing each person’s life and trying to determine who is “worthy” to enter the Kingdom of God. In sharp contrast, the Word of God makes a PROMISE to every repentant sinner who calls upon the name of the Lord… “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Romans 10:13). Whereas the Word of God promises salvation to anyone who trusts upon the name of Jesus for salvation; SDA teaches that there is NO guarantee of salvation until Christ’s work of Investigative Judgment is complete. SDAs are calling God a liar. Whereas 1st John 5:13 says that believers can “KNOW” they have eternal life; SDAs teach that only Christ knows who is truly worthy to enter the Kingdom.

In the Bible, salvation is based upon God’s unconditional love for sinful mankind (Romans 5:8), which caused Him to send His only begotten Son into the world to pay for our sins (John 3:16); but in SDA, salvation is based upon our loyalty to God, our faithfulness to keep God’s commandments, whether or not we abide in Christ, and then of course, our faith. SDAs speak double-talk. They profess to trust completely in Jesus Christ for salvation; while simultaneously claiming that one’s loyalty to God is a critical factor in salvation.

This is very similar to the damnable Calvinist doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints, which teaches that those who are genuinely saved will continue in the faith. Thus, in effect, holy living is required to keep one’s salvation. The problem with such sanctimonious thinking is that it ignores the Biblical reality of babes of Christ (i.e., immature believers) and backslidden believers. The Bible is filled with examples of believers who committed horrible sins, failed to remain loyal to God, failed to keep God’s commandments, failed to abide in Christ; yet, they were saved as by fire (1st Corinthians 3:15). Thank God, our salvation is not dependent upon anything we can do; but rather, upon what Jesus did at Calvary. Our part is simply to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31). Salvation is of God; not man. Eternal life is a “free gift” from God (Romans 5:15; 6:23; Revelation 22:17). Salvation is receiving; not giving.

God has promised to save anyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 10:13). SDAs are liars to teach a conditional type of salvation based upon one’s ministers are transformed into ministers of righteousness. Should it be surprising then that the Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Scientologists, Christian Scientists, Seventh-day Adventists, and other religions are all OF THE DEVIL.

There is a visible, obvious, verifiable occult connection between nearly all major religions today, especially with Freemasonry.

loveschild · Sep 21, 2011

gotime said:

Page 16 further states: “This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the Kingdom.” In other words, by our good works we prove that we are worthy of the salvation which was freely given in Christ. But what about those believers who commit horrible sins, deliberately disobey the commandments of God, fail to remain loyal, and follow Christ afar off? You see, SDA only works for those who are self-righteous. According to SDA doctrine, a person who lives in sin and fails to abide in Christ cannot go to Heaven. Clearly, the life one lives is a part of saving faith in the SDA religion.

Seventh-day Adventists Call God a Liar

The mythical doctrine of “Investigative Judgment” is based upon the idea of Christ analyzing each person’s life and trying to determine who is “worthy” to enter the Kingdom of God. In sharp contrast, the Word of God makes a PROMISE to every repentant sinner who calls upon the name of the Lord… “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Romans 10:13). Whereas the Word of God promises salvation to anyone who trusts upon the name of Jesus for salvation; SDA teaches that there is NO guarantee of salvation until Christ’s work of Investigative Judgment is complete. SDAs are calling God a liar. Whereas 1st John 5:13 says that believers can “KNOW” they have eternal life; SDAs teach that only Christ knows who is truly worthy to enter the Kingdom.

In the Bible, salvation is based upon God’s unconditional love for sinful mankind (Romans 5:8), which caused Him to send His only begotten Son into the world to pay for our sins (John 3:16); but in SDA, salvation is based upon our loyalty to God, our faithfulness to keep God’s commandments, whether or not we abide in Christ, and then of course, our faith. SDAs speak double-talk. They profess to trust completely in Jesus Christ for salvation; while simultaneously claiming that one’s loyalty to God is a critical factor in salvation.

This is very similar to the damnable Calvinist doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints, which teaches that those who are genuinely saved will continue in the faith. Thus, in effect, holy living is required to keep one’s salvation. The problem with such sanctimonious thinking is that it ignores the Biblical reality of babes of Christ (i.e., immature believers) and backslidden believers. The Bible is filled with examples of believers who committed horrible sins, failed to remain loyal to God, failed to keep God’s commandments, failed to abide in Christ; yet, they were saved as by fire (1st Corinthians 3:15). Thank God, our salvation is not dependent upon anything we can do; but rather, upon what Jesus did at Calvary. Our part is simply to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31). Salvation is of God; not man. Eternal life is a “free gift” from God (Romans 5:15; 6:23; Revelation 22:17). Salvation is receiving; not giving.

God has promised to save anyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 10:13). SDAs are liars to teach a conditional type of salvation based upon one’s loyalty to God. Such doctrine is self-righteousness, which God condemns (Romans 10:3,4).

Ellen G. White and Freemasonry

Photo to Right: Founder of 7th Day Adventism, Ellen G. White's Tomb Stone. Notice the Illuminati symbol. Obelisks represent Freemasonry, clearly evidenced by the Washington Monument. George Washington was a 33rd Degree Freemason.

Ellen G. White (November 26, 1827 — July 16, 1915) is only vaguely mentioned in the preface of the SDA Church Manual. Without prophetess Ellen G. White there would be no SDA Church; however, SDAs seek to avoid the issue because Ellen G. White’s life was saturated with damnable New Age heresies and bizarre experiences. SDAs revere White’s writings as being equally inspired with the Bible.

Interestingly, Charles Taze Russell (founder of the Jehovah’s Witnesses), Ron Hubbard (founder of Scientology), and Joseph Smith (founder of the Mormon religion) were all 33rd Degree Freemasons.

Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of Christian Science, was an associate of 33rd Degree Freemason Henry Steele Olcott who founded the Satan worshipping cult called the "Theosophical Society" with evil female Freemason, mother of the New Age Movement and Hitler's spiritual guide, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky.

Satan is the god of this sinful world (2nd Corinthians 4:4) and operates through the occult to perform his works of darkness. 2nd Corinthians 11:13,14 informs us that Satan transforms himself into an angel of light to deceive people, and his sinister ministers are transformed into ministers of righteousness. Should it be surprising then that the Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Scientologists, Christian Scientists, Seventh-day Adventists, and other religions are all OF THE DEVIL.

There is a visible, obvious, verifiable occult connection between nearly all major religions today, especially with Freemasonry.

Conclusion

Throughout this article I have referred to the Seventh-day Adventist religion with the acronym SDA; but I think SAD is a better term, because there is nothing SADDER than the SDA religion. In fact, it’s pathetically reprehensible. On page 16 of the SDA Church Manual, it states: “The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent.” … Probation? Since when are born-again Christians on probation with God? This is the BIG LIE of Seventh-day Adventism—on the surface they profess to trust Jesus Christ, saying that Jesus’ blood is what takes our sins away, and claiming that they believe faith is all that is necessary for salvation; BUT IN REALITY, they believe that they’re on “probation” with God, and that the life they live is taken into serious consideration by the Lord, in determining whether or not they are worthy of salvation.

The SDAs I have conversed with in the past were in denial. SDAs strongly deny trusting works for salvation; but simultaneously fail to realize (or refused to admit) that the very doctrine of “Investigative Judgment” is saturated in self-righteousness and works salvation. The very notion that Christ’s work of redemption is still not finished, and that the life we live is being examined by Christ as part of His investigative work of atonement is demonic to the core. The life we live has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not we go to Heaven when we die. Eternal life is a “free gift” (Romans 5:15), paid for by Jesus’ literal, physical, precious blood (1st Peter 1:18,19; Hebrews 9:12). To be saved, a person need only realize their guilt of sin (Romans 3:19), being condemned under God’s Holy Law, and turn by faith to Jesus Christ to be saved and forgiven (Acts 10:43). SDAs talk a good talk; but their official doctrinal statement condemns them.

Interestingly, I couldn’t find anything about Hell or the Lake of Fire in the SDA Church Manual; in spite of the preponderance of doctrines covered in the book. Clearly they don’t believe in Hell. On page 190, the book states that the wicked will be resurrected at the end of the 1,000-year Millennium and then will be “consumed” by the same fire that God is going to use to cleanse the earth. In sharp contrast, the Bible teaches in Revelation 20:11-15 that the unsaved will be cast into the Lake of Fire forever; not consumed.

Miller messed up in 1844. You’d think today, after 164 years, that someone would finally give in and admit THEY WERE WRONG! Talk about an ego trip. SDAs have stubbornly refused to admit they’ve been wrong for the past 164 years. I think that’s a new Guinness World Record of some sort.

SDA is of the Devil—a manmade (or should I say “womanmade”) religion birthed out of confusion, panic and false doctrine. The big question is this—why follow any religion? Jesus never started a religion. Why cannot we just “SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES” as Jesus commanded in John 5:39? Religion is the worst thing that’s ever happened to this dark and dreary world of sin. Salvation is NOT found in any religion; but in a person—The Lord Jesus Christ … “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43).

[FONT=&quot] The Occult Roots of Seventh-day Adventism[/FONT]

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Ye Must Be Born Again! | You Need HIS Righteousness!

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Nalu · Sep 21, 2011

The Seventh Day Adventist, hmmmmmmmmm.

Do Seventh Day Adventist still follow the demented teachings of Ellen G White?

Is Jesus God the Son of God, seated at the right hand of God. The Seventh Day Adventist teach that Jesus is Micheal the Arch Angel.

I say Jesus is the Son of God, seated at the right hand of the Father.

Do Seventh Day Adventist believe that every one who worships God on a Sunday are in error and deceived?

Do Seventh Day Adventists believe that they alone are the one true church and everyone else in error and dammed?

The list goes on, on and on about the flaws within this denomination. Run a quick google search of Ellen G White and the Seventh Day Adventist and you will see what I mean. If Mister Ray Charles were still alive today, even he could see it.

Laodicea · Sep 21, 2011

Slepsog4 said:

Exodus 3:2-4
(2) And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
(3) And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
(4) And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exodus 13:21
(21) And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:
Exodus 14:19
(19) And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:

Just a few verses to interest you although I am sure gotime will have more. Also archangel means chief of the angels.

Laodicea · Sep 21, 2011

loveschild said:

Page 16 further states: “This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the Kingdom.” In other words, by our good works we prove that we are worthy of the salvation which was freely given in Christ. But what about those believers who commit horrible sins, deliberately disobey the commandments of God, fail to remain loyal, and follow Christ afar off? You see, SDA only works for those who are self-righteous. According to SDA doctrine, a person who lives in sin and fails to abide in Christ cannot go to Heaven. Clearly, the life one lives is a part of saving faith in the SDA religion.

Seventh-day Adventists Call God a Liar

The mythical doctrine of “Investigative Judgment” is based upon the idea of Christ analyzing each person’s life and trying to determine who is “worthy” to enter the Kingdom of God. In sharp contrast, the Word of God makes a PROMISE to every repentant sinner who calls upon the name of the Lord… “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Romans 10:13). Whereas the Word of God promises salvation to anyone who trusts upon the name of Jesus for salvation; SDA teaches that there is NO guarantee of salvation until Christ’s work of Investigative Judgment is complete. SDAs are calling God a liar. Whereas 1st John 5:13 says that believers can “KNOW” they have eternal life; SDAs teach that only Christ knows who is truly worthy to enter the Kingdom.

In the Bible, salvation is based upon God’s unconditional love for sinful mankind (Romans 5:8), which caused Him to send His only begotten Son into the world to pay for our sins (John 3:16); but in SDA, salvation is based upon our loyalty to God, our faithfulness to keep God’s commandments, whether or not we abide in Christ, and then of course, our faith. SDAs speak double-talk. They profess to trust completely in Jesus Christ for salvation; while simultaneously claiming that one’s loyalty to God is a critical factor in salvation.

This is very similar to the damnable Calvinist doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints, which teaches that those who are genuinely saved will continue in the faith. Thus, in effect, holy living is required to keep one’s salvation. The problem with such sanctimonious thinking is that it ignores the Biblical reality of babes of Christ (i.e., immature believers) and backslidden believers. The Bible is filled with examples of believers who committed horrible sins, failed to remain loyal to God, failed to keep God’s commandments, failed to abide in Christ; yet, they were saved as by fire (1st Corinthians 3:15). Thank God, our salvation is not dependent upon anything we can do; but rather, upon what Jesus did at Calvary. Our part is simply to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31). Salvation is of God; not man. Eternal life is a “free gift” from God (Romans 5:15; 6:23; Revelation 22:17). Salvation is receiving; not giving.

God has promised to save anyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 10:13). SDAs are liars to teach a conditional type of salvation based upon one’s loyalty to God. Such doctrine is self-righteousness, which God condemns (Romans 10:3,4).

Ellen G. White and Freemasonry

Photo to Right: Founder of 7th Day Adventism, Ellen G. White's Tomb Stone. Notice the Illuminati symbol. Obelisks represent Freemasonry, clearly evidenced by the Washington Monument. George Washington was a 33rd Degree Freemason.

Ellen G. White (November 26, 1827 — July 16, 1915) is only vaguely mentioned in the preface of the SDA Church Manual. Without prophetess Ellen G. White there would be no SDA Church; however, SDAs seek to avoid the issue because Ellen G. White’s life was saturated with damnable New Ageheresies and bizarre experiences. SDAs revere White’s writings as being equally inspired with the Bible.

Interestingly, Charles Taze Russell (founder of the Jehovah’s Witnesses), Ron Hubbard (founder of Scientology), and Joseph Smith (founder of the Mormon religion) were all 33rd Degree Freemasons.

Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of Christian Science, was an associate of 33rd Degree Freemason Henry Steele Olcott who founded the Satan worshipping cult called the "Theosophical Society" with evil female Freemason, mother of the New Age Movement and Hitler's spiritual guide, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky.

Satan is the god of this sinful world (2nd Corinthians 4:4) and operates through the occult to perform his works of darkness. 2nd Corinthians 11:13,14 informs us that Satan transforms himself into an angel of light to deceive people, and his sinister ministers are transformed into ministers of righteousness. Should it be surprising then that the Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Scientologists, Christian Scientists, Seventh-day Adventists, and other religions are all OF THE DEVIL.

There is a visible, obvious, verifiable occult connection between nearly all major religions today, especially with Freemasonry.

Conclusion

Throughout this article I have referred to the Seventh-day Adventist religion with the acronym SDA; but I think SAD is a better term, because there is nothing SADDER than the SDA religion. In fact, it’s pathetically reprehensible. On page 16 of the SDA Church Manual, it states: “The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent.” … Probation? Since when are born-again Christians on probation with God? This is the BIG LIE of Seventh-day Adventism—on the surface they profess to trust Jesus Christ, saying that Jesus’ blood is what takes our sins away, and claiming that they believe faith is all that is necessary for salvation; BUT IN REALITY, they believe that they’re on “probation” with God, and that the life they live is taken into serious consideration by the Lord, in determining whether or not they are worthy of salvation.

The SDAs I have conversed with in the past were in denial. SDAs strongly deny trusting works for salvation; but simultaneously fail to realize (or refused to admit) that the very doctrine of “Investigative Judgment” is saturated in self-righteousness and works salvation. The very notion that Christ’s work of redemption is still not finished, and that the life we live is being examined by Christ as part of His investigative work of atonement is demonic to the core. The life we live has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not we go to Heaven when we die. Eternal life is a “free gift” (Romans 5:15), paid for by Jesus’ literal, physical, precious blood (1st Peter 1:18,19; Hebrews 9:12). To be saved, a person need only realize their guilt of sin (Romans 3:19), being condemned under God’s Holy Law, and turn by faith to Jesus Christ to be saved and forgiven (Acts 10:43). SDAs talk a good talk; but their official doctrinal statement condemns them.

Interestingly, I couldn’t find anything about Hell or the Lake of Fire in the SDA Church Manual; in spite of the preponderance of doctrines covered in the book. Clearly they don’t believe in Hell. On page 190, the book states that the wicked will be resurrected at the end of the 1,000-year Millennium and then will be “consumed” by the same fire that God is going to use to cleanse the earth. In sharp contrast, the Bible teaches in Revelation 20:11-15 that the unsaved will be cast into the Lake of Fire forever; not consumed.

Miller messed up in 1844. You’d think today, after 164 years, that someone would finally give in and admit THEY WERE WRONG! Talk about an ego trip. SDAs have stubbornly refused to admit they’ve been wrong for the past 164 years. I think that’s a new Guinness World Record of some sort.

SDA is of the Devil—a manmade (or should I say “womanmade&#8221

religion birthed out of confusion, panic and false doctrine. The big question is this—why follow any religion? Jesus never started a religion. Why cannot we just “SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES” as Jesus commanded in John 5:39? Religion is the worst thing that’s ever happened to this dark and dreary world of sin. Salvation is NOT found in any religion; but in a person—The Lord Jesus Christ … “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43).

[FONT=&quot] The Occult Roots of Seventh-day Adventism[/FONT]

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Ye Must Be Born Again! | You Need HIS Righteousness!

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Do you ever do any research of your own or do you always follow what people say? Why don't you ask a question and actually search the Bible yourself to find out if it is true instead of listening to others all the time? A true follower of Christ will search the Bible for themselves to see if those things are so.

People could easily come up with many bad things on the net about the church you go to. You can find anything on the net just because it is there does not mean it is truth. Do some study for yourself.

Acts 17:11
(11) These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
2 Timothy 2:15
(15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

XGraveX · Sep 21, 2011

How do you reconcile with scripture that Jesus Christ is God AND Michael the Archangel at the same time?

per link here from an SDA page:

Who is Michael?

loveschild · Sep 21, 2011

Laodicea said:

I look up stuff to learn. Who would I ask? Some cult member? Maybe you should do some studies. When people have to be harassed because they try to learn and they post so others can learn why are you so offended??? What are you wanting to be hidden from everyone??? I have looked up this nut stuff more than this time. This is a serious issue. People are going to hell because of these false churches.

gotime · Sep 21, 2011

loveschild said:

Seventh-day Adventist Cult Exposed

By David J. Stewart

“There be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” —Galatians 1:7,8

The following quote is from the SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH MANUAL...

“Baptismal vow—Candidates for baptism or those being received into fellowship by profession of faith shall affirm their acceptance of the doctrinal beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the presence of the church or other properly appointed body. The minister or elder should address the following questions to the candidate(s)…

…Do you accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy? …”

SOURCE: SEVENTH-DAYADVENTISTCHURCH MANUAL, pgs. 30,31; ISBN 0-8280-1076-5; Revised 1995, 15th Edition; Review and Herald Publishing Association, Hagerstown, Maryland21740

I went ahead and skipped most of the questions (1-12) because they are doctrinally sound, which is why so many victims get deceived by this false religious cult. Seventh-day Adventists (hereafter referred to as SDAs) do adhere superficially to the Fundamental doctrines of the Bible, so it seems at a glance. However, upon closer scrutiny, when we analyze the particulars of the SDA religion, we find a cesspool of damnable heresies, bizarre teachings and a false gospel.

Seventh-day Adventists Falsely Claim They are the Only TrueChurch

The key to the preceding quote I gave you is question #13, which mandates that a person joining the SDA Church MUST (without exception) believe that “the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy.” This means that all other religions, including Baptist and Presbyterian, are viewed as being of the Devil by SDAs. SDAs arrogantly, and sinfully, teach that their organization is the only True Church, and that everyone else is following the Devil.

I can proudly say that I am a Baptist; but there’s no such thing as “The Baptist Church.” Jesus never founded a “Baptist Church.” Jesus is the foundation of the Church, period (1st Corinthians 3:11). Thus, there are numerous denominations which teach the Word of God faithfully concerning the plan of salvation. The mighty evangelist, Billy Sunday, was a Presbyterian minister. The mighty pastor, Dwight Moody, was a Baptist. Many godly pastors are non-denominational. They are all a part of the Body of Christ. For any religious group, such as the SDAs or Jehovah’s Witnesses to claim that they are the only True Church is unbiblical and a false teaching.

Interesting, from looking at the “Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists” (outlined on pages 7-17 in the SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH MANUAL), Baptists and SDAs align almost identically doctrinally concerning the Godhead, the Deity of Jesus Christ, Jesus’ Shed Blood, the Virgin Birth, et cetera. In fact, some writers such as Walter Martin have made the fatal mistake of identifying the SDAs as a Christian cult. My friend, there is NO such thing as a “Christian cult.” SDA is a demonic cult, as you will learn in the next section.

Satan is a Beautiful liar

SDA is an extremely dangerous religion because it appears as being a genuine New Testament Church; but it is not in any way. I have been contacted by several SDAs over the past few years, in response to my online writings, who allege that I don’t understand their religion, and claim that SDA is Christ’s genuine Church. I do understand their religion, and it is of the Devil.

As much as SDAs attempt to deny it, their religion is rooted in self-righteousness. SDAs hold to a particular doctrine, which is exclusive only to their religion, which they refer to as “Investigative Judgment.” The following information is again quoted directly from SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH MANUAL...

“There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement…

The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting Kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the Kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent.”

SOURCE: SEVENTH-DAYADVENTISTCHURCH MANUAL, pg. 15,16; ISBN 0-8280-1076-5; Revised 1995, 15th Edition; Review and Herald Publishing Association, Hagerstown, Maryland21740

I could literally write an entire book on the lies and false doctrines contained just in these two preceding paragraphs I’ve quoted to you. Wow, what a bunch of damnable heresies! Let’s take a closer look these SDA teachings and compare them to what the Word of God teaches. In John 5:39 Jesus commanded for us to… SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES!!! Let’s do so now.

The first thing I want to point out, which SDAs won’t, is that their religion DIDN’T exist until a wayward Baptist preacher by the name of Miller prophesied that the Lord would return in 1844, but He didn’t. 10,000 followers of Miller had sold their homes, given away all their earthly possessions, and were utterly disappointed when Jesus didn’t return in 1844. To save face, someone suggested that perhaps Miller had misunderstood the Bible, and the expected event had instead taken place in heaven. This is what they settled upon. Thus, a new religion was birthed and given the name in 1860 of Seventh-day Adventism.

There is absolutely nothing in the Bible to support such a bizarre claim by SDAs. By manipulating numbers and dates in the Bible, one can predict just about anything. Jehovah’s Witnesses have their own little cute way of ripping apart the Bible to make their false doctrines fit. SDAs have done the same thing, i.e., they have corrupted the Word of God in order to accommodate their false teachings.

It is very important to realize that SDA did not exist prior to Miller’s failed prophecy. If, as SDAs claim, the Bible teaches that the Lord would return in 1844, then why did only Miller and his followers believe this? The very manner in which the SDA religion came into existence is irrefutable proof that they are a manmade false religion.
Page 15 of the SDA Church Manual states: “In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry.” There is absolutely nothing in the Word of God teaching such nonsense. You can search the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you won’t find anything about a “second phase” of Jesus’ atonement ministry. Even more bizarre is the ridiculous claim that the second phase began in 1844. Why hasn’t anyone, from any other religion, interpreted the Bible in such a way? It is only SDAs who make such bizarre claims, because their founders were made the laughing stock of an entire nation when Jesus failed to return in 1844.
Page 15 of the SDA Church Manual states: “It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin…” SDAs are liars. 1st John 1:7 states: “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” It is Jesus’ precious blood that washes away our sins, and nothing else. SDAs teach that Jesus’ blood sacrifice is insufficient by itself to pay for our sins; teaching instead that a separate work which Christ began in the year 1844 A.D. is absolutely essential to one’s salvation. This bizarre doctrine is nowhere taught in the Bible.
Page 15 and 16 of the SDA Church Manual states: “The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting Kingdom.” This plainly teaches works salvation. No one is worthy of salvation. SDAs teach that in order to enter into God’s everlasting Kingdom, the prerequisites of abiding in Christ and keeping God’s commandments must first be met. This is self-righteousness and a sure road to Hell.

Page 16 further states: “This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the Kingdom.” In other words, by our good works we prove that we are worthy of the salvation which was freely given in Christ. But what about those believers who commit horrible sins, deliberately disobey the commandments of God, fail to remain loyal, and follow Christ afar off? You see, SDA only works for those who are self-righteous. According to SDA doctrine, a person who lives in sin and fails to abide in Christ cannot go to Heaven. Clearly, the life one lives is a part of saving faith in the SDA religion.

Seventh-day Adventists Call God a Liar

The mythical doctrine of “Investigative Judgment” is based upon the idea of Christ analyzing each person’s life and trying to determine who is “worthy” to enter the Kingdom of God. In sharp contrast, the Word of God makes a PROMISE to every repentant sinner who calls upon the name of the Lord… “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Romans 10:13). Whereas the Word of God promises salvation to anyone who trusts upon the name of Jesus for salvation; SDA teaches that there is NO guarantee of salvation until Christ’s work of Investigative Judgment is complete. SDAs are calling God a liar. Whereas 1st John 5:13 says that believers can “KNOW” they have eternal life; SDAs teach that only Christ knows who is truly worthy to enter the Kingdom.

In the Bible, salvation is based upon God’s unconditional love for sinful mankind (Romans 5:8), which caused Him to send His only begotten Son into the world to pay for our sins (John 3:16); but in SDA, salvation is based upon our loyalty to God, our faithfulness to keep God’s commandments, whether or not we abide in Christ, and then of course, our faith. SDAs speak double-talk. They profess to trust completely in Jesus Christ for salvation; while simultaneously claiming that one’s loyalty to God is a critical factor in salvation.

This is very similar to the damnable Calvinist doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints, which teaches that those who are genuinely saved will continue in the faith. Thus, in effect, holy living is required to keep one’s salvation. The problem with such sanctimonious thinking is that it ignores the Biblical reality of babes of Christ (i.e., immature believers) and backslidden believers. The Bible is filled with examples of believers who committed horrible sins, failed to remain loyal to God, failed to keep God’s commandments, failed to abide in Christ; yet, they were saved as by fire (1st Corinthians 3:15). Thank God, our salvation is not dependent upon anything we can do; but rather, upon what Jesus did at Calvary. Our part is simply to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31). Salvation is of God; not man. Eternal life is a “free gift” from God (Romans 5:15; 6:23; Revelation 22:17). Salvation is receiving; not giving.

God has promised to save anyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 10:13). SDAs are liars to teach a conditional type of salvation based upon one’s ministers are transformed into ministers of righteousness. Should it be surprising then that the Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Scientologists, Christian Scientists, Seventh-day Adventists, and other religions are all OF THE DEVIL.

There is a visible, obvious, verifiable occult connection between nearly all major religions today, especially with Freemasonry.

Thankyou loveschild. This is the perfect example of what I was talking about. as I read over this article I saw many errors spoken about what we teach and why.

This is the purpose of this post, to ask questions not to assert ones propaganda based on falsehood. I will answer any question you have. but I will not listen to lies from some book someone wrote on their perceptions on a faith they no little about. This writer displays arrogance when he supposes he can read a few paragraphs and then belt our Faith. I could do that to any Faith I wanted but that is not how a Christian should act.

I invite your questions, but please afford us a little more respect. I will not denounce your faith because of what others have wrote. no, if I have problems with your faith then I will ask you so that I can get it from the source.

blessings

AnandaHya · Sep 21, 2011

no white text please. my eyes aren't that good.

so Gotime why are people so against Seven day adventist?

What kind of programs and teaching do you use to train your children in the ways of righteousness and help them seek and know the Lord and His salvation?

gotime · Sep 21, 2011

AnandaHya said:

Hi AnandaHya. Many are against our church because of misunderstandings. this is largely due to Adventists themselves.

Our children are very important to us. We have bible studies guides that help lead our children through the Word of God. The Bible is a point of emphasis when we train our children. Mostly its about being a Godly example as parents to our children.

I personally both give bible studies to my Kids and use life lessons to show them our God. We teach them about the Holy Spirit and how we need God to overcome sin. On this Topic as in others we emphasis the importance of relying on God and not by our own works. (Grace through Faith).

My daughter is nearly 6 and she has memorised many Bible texts. Isa 26:3,4 is one she has just learnt.

Isa 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
Isa 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:

Jesus said of children,

Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

The Lord directs us to the training of Children in the ways of God.

Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

we also run programs for children to learn in a fun environment together. with things like Adventurers and Pathfinders. which go on camps and learn all sorts of different skills with a heave emphasis on God.

I hope that helps. God bless

Muskokaman · Sep 21, 2011

gotime said:

I'M A KJV MAN MYSELF have others NIV for a more modern english structure in some cases but I find that with certain Passages that subtle nuances the change or become different in their meaning from the Old English
Old English was a better conveyer of Truth and Meaning in my opinion.

My Doctrine........hmmmm ............well lets just say I am an entrepeneur of the truth rather than any one particular Doctrine. Doctrines from my standpoint can be and have been very dangerous tools in the past Leading many astray from the sheperd as it were

As of Late I have taken it upon myself to learn the truth of the scriptures by the Word Alone and with debate of scripture with others whom haven proven themselves worthy opponents in the theological debate field. As of late I spend approx. 18 hours a day doing it as business is slow these days

My Thesis is :Start as far back as you can accurately verify the authenticity of the scripture and it's language and Go from there. For me this was the KJV in 1611 which I refer to almost explicitly as I believe in the basic Ideals of Protestantism therefore I use the 1st truly recognized English bible The KJV.

I find it absolutely marvellous the information age with so much information at your fingertips it makes the Job of corroberating scripture with other scripture much more easy.

I have a very good old Friend of mine who's a 7th day man himself he's an old Farmer (probably why I like Him so much) and I always found him to be a Good man, Hard working,Very strict sabbath observer and though I do not attend his church always found him to be one who practiced what he preached.

Selah

gotime · Sep 21, 2011

Slepsog4 said:

Ok this one is a big one. big as in there is a lot of ground to cover if you go into it enough. I will try to keep it shorter than It can be.

Lets look at where Michael shows up in scripture and what we can learn about Him. but first lets us acknowledge the name.

Michael the name means "(one) who is like God"

There is a lot of confusion on archangels and Michael due to many different sources. here we will only acknowledge what the Bible says about it. lets start with passages that actually mention Michael.

Dan 10:12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Dan 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Notice here that Michael is one of the chief princes. chief means first, head, boss man. while prince means leader, Lord, Master etc. this indicates that Michael is in line for the throne. we also see him working behind the scenes with Gabriel to ensure that God's will actually occurs.

here again:

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Now he is called the GREAT prince. this even further upholds this Michael in high regard and authority.

Now notice that when this Michael stand up the time of trouble starts and God's people are delivered. Why when Michael stands up? why not God? why not Jesus? and why is Michael described as the one who stands as protector for the children of thy people?

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Now we see Michael confronting Satan when Moses was resurrected. why would God send an angel to confront Satan? I would like to note something here.

Archangel is a misunderstood term. mostly because people do not understand Greek. Angel means messenger and arch means head. so the term hear means head messenger. or leader of the angels.

another thing notice that Michael says to the devil, "The Lord rebuke thee." This term is one that is only found in one other place in the Bible and it is God himself speaking. This makes sense being that there is none higher in which to speak of.

Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

If you read around this text it is clear that something similar is being portrayed. Joshua is standing before God and Satan comes to stop God from taking Joshua as His own. but God says "The Lord rebuke thee" This was a vision. but notice the parallels We have someone who is on our side who stands for us. and satan who stands against us. who other than Jesus stands for us?

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Notice here we have a war in heaven between the dragon and his angels, which we know is Satan and his angels and Michael and his angels. The war in heaven is important, so why is God or Jesus not involved. why are the angels Michaels angels and not Gods?

Just reading these few texts from the Bible seem to create more questions than answers. Who is Michael anyway? Michael is the archangel, the chief of the angels. He is described as one of the chief princes and our prince. When He stands up, things happen. He is described as standing for the children of thy people. So when He stands, there is a time of trouble that results in God's people being delivered, every one who's name if found written in the book. He contends directly against Satan and the angels in heaven are described as being Michael's angels.
So, I want to ask you a question. Because Michael does things that we might think God or Jesus should be doing: Is it possible that Michael could be Jesus Christ? To answer this question, I will explore the evidence from the Bible.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Here we see the Lord coming from heaven and he is shouting with the voice of an archangel. Those of you who know how Greek works will know that this voice is being directly connected as the voice of the Lord. and not someone or something that is speaking on His behalf.

now lets have a look at what Christ said when he was on earth:

Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Here we have proof from Jesus own mouth that shows it is actually Jesus who speaks and then the dead in Christ rise. according to John 5 Jesus must be the one who speaks in Thessalonians. Thus with Jesus' words we know that 1 thessalonians means that Jesus descends from heaven with the voice of the Archangel. we see in both of these that it is the voice that causes the dead to come to life. thus they must be the same person.

I will continue on this study later I have run out of time. next we will go into how Jesus is called the angel of the Lord in the old testament. which simply means messenger of the Lord. Before I go I want to make on thing clear. I do not believe that Jesus is created. Jesus is God and has always been God. Michael is just a name he had before he became a man. Revelation says he has received a new name. we will look further into this when I have time. but know this. we have just started scratching the surface of the evidence that Michael is another name for the one we know as Jesus. and he is not an angel but God.

Blessings all

Muskokaman · Sep 21, 2011

gotime said:

Ok this one is a big one. big as in there is a lot of ground to cover if you go into it enough. I will try to keep it shorter than It can be.

Lets look at where Michael shows up in scripture and what we can learn about Him. but first lets us acknowledge the name.

Michael the name means "(one) who is like God"

There is a lot of confusion on archangels and Michael due to many different sources. here we will only acknowledge what the Bible says about it. lets start with passages that actually mention Michael.

Dan 10:12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Dan 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Notice here that Michael is one of the chief princes. chief means first, head, boss man. while prince means leader, Lord, Master etc. this indicates that Michael is in line for the throne. we also see him working behind the scenes with Gabriel to ensure that God's will actually occurs.

here again:

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Now he is called the GREAT prince. this even further upholds this Michael in high regard and authority.

Now notice that when this Michael stand up the time of trouble starts and God's people are delivered. Why when Michael stands up? why not God? why not Jesus? and why is Michael described as the one who stands as protector for the children of thy people?

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Now we see Michael confronting Satan when Moses was resurrected. why would God send an angel to confront Satan? I would like to note something here.

Archangel is a misunderstood term. mostly because people do not understand Greek. Angel means messenger and arch means head. so the term hear means head messenger. or leader of the angels.

another thing notice that Michael says to the devil, "The Lord rebuke thee." This term is one that is only found in one other place in the Bible and it is God himself speaking. This makes sense being that there is none higher in which to speak of.

Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

If you read around this text it is clear that something similar is being portrayed. Joshua is standing before God and Satan comes to stop God from taking Joshua as His own. but God says "The Lord rebuke thee" This was a vision. but notice the parallels We have someone who is on our side who stands for us. and satan who stands against us. who other than Jesus stands for us?

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Notice here we have a war in heaven between the dragon and his angels, which we know is Satan and his angels and Michael and his angels. The war in heaven is important, so why is God or Jesus not involved. why are the angels Michaels angels and not Gods?

Just reading these few texts from the Bible seem to create more questions than answers. Who is Michael anyway? Michael is the archangel, the chief of the angels. He is described as one of the chief princes and our prince. When He stands up, things happen. He is described as standing for the children of thy people. So when He stands, there is a time of trouble that results in God's people being delivered, every one who's name if found written in the book. He contends directly against Satan and the angels in heaven are described as being Michael's angels.
So, I want to ask you a question. Because Michael does things that we might think God or Jesus should be doing: Is it possible that Michael could be Jesus Christ? To answer this question, I will explore the evidence from the Bible.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Here we see the Lord coming from heaven and he is shouting with the voice of an archangel. Those of you who know how Greek works will know that this voice is being directly connected as the voice of the Lord. and not someone or something that is speaking on His behalf.

now lets have a look at what Christ said when he was on earth:

Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Here we have proof from Jesus own mouth that shows it is actually Jesus who speaks and then the dead in Christ rise. according to John 5 Jesus must be the one who speaks in Thessalonians. Thus with Jesus' words we know that 1 thessalonians means that Jesus descends from heaven with the voice of the Archangel. we see in both of these that it is the voice that causes the dead to come to life. thus they must be the same person.

I will continue on this study later I have run out of time. next we will go into how Jesus is called the angel of the Lord in the old testament. which simply means messenger of the Lord. Before I go I want to make on thing clear. I do not believe that Jesus is created. Jesus is God and has always been God. Michael is just a name he had before he became a man. Revelation says he has received a new name. we will look further into this when I have time. but know this. we have just started scratching the surface of the evidence that Michael is another name for the one we know as Jesus. and he is not an angel but God.

Blessings all

Nice Post with scripture referrences I LIKE THAT

Deadflesh · Sep 21, 2011

Hello Gottime, I wonder WHY SDA beleive that Jesus is/was Michael the ARC-ANGEL?

Daniel 10:12
Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

Do you believe that The SON of GOD is this glorious man? Its NOT Gabriel, and its NOT michael, because this Glorious man is talkign ABOUT Michael. Who do you teach this glorious man is? I dont wish to make it into an argument, i just want to udnerstand who this glorious man is preached as. Thank you

Jesus bless you.

Muskokaman · Sep 21, 2011

Deadflesh said:

Hello Gottime, I wonder WHY SDA beleive that Jesus is/was Michael the ARC-ANGEL?

Daniel 10:12
Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

Do you believe that The SON of GOD is this glorious man? Its NOT Gabriel, and its NOT michael, because this Glorious man is talkign ABOUT Michael. Who do you teach this glorious man is? I dont wish to make it into an argument, i just want to udnerstand who this glorious man is preached as. Thank you

Jesus bless you.

He just explained his position in the post above yours and I didn't see anything about a Glorious man in there could you point it out?

Deadflesh · Sep 21, 2011

Muskokaman said:

Daniel 10:5-9
Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude. And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves. Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength. Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.

This MAN, is described almost exactly as the JESUS is in Revelation:

Revelation 1:12-18
Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades"

So if this is the SAME man, as in daniel, and Revelation, then it is The SON who is the glorious man. So if JESUS is the glorious man...lets read the rest of Daniel 10

Daniel 10:10-14
Suddenly, a hand touched me, which made me tremble on my knees and on the palms of my hands. And he said to me, “O Daniel, man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak to you, and stand upright, for I have now been sent to you.” While he was speaking this word to me, I stood trembling.
Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come.”

So this Glorious MAN, (Who i beleive to Be the Imamge of God, the SON of GOD, JESUS CHRIST), HE claims to be seperate from Michael. Michael helped HIM.

I am a Seventh Day Adventist, Ask Me.

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