Does man have a freewill ?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 21, 2020
7,069
685
113
#1
Does man have a freewill ?

Im not asking does man have a will, sure he does. God created man with a will, and man has a responsible and accountable will that God gave him at creation. However the question remains, does man have a freewill ?

Man though he has a will, his will isnt free from Gods Sovereign Will and Purpose. Mans will is always subservient to Gods Sovereign Purpose !

Im going to share some scripture which without doubt, indicate that mans will is subservient to Gods Will of Purpose.

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Prov
19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

These are just a few verses, there are many more !
 
Oct 19, 2024
5,625
1,145
113
USA-TX
#3
Does man have a freewill ?

Im not asking does man have a will, sure he does. God created man with a will, and man has a responsible and accountable will that God gave him at creation. However the question remains, does man have a freewill ?

Man though he has a will, his will isnt free from Gods Sovereign Will and Purpose. Mans will is always subservient to Gods Sovereign Purpose !

Im going to share some scripture which without doubt, indicate that mans will is subservient to Gods Will of Purpose.

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

These are just a few verses, there are many more !
If man's will is not morally free, then God is responsible for evil and would warrant hell,
so be careful not to interpret Scripture in a way that blasphemes God's righteousness.
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,889
837
113
#4
Does man have a freewill ?

Im not asking does man have a will, sure he does. God created man with a will, and man has a responsible and accountable will that God gave him at creation. However the question remains, does man have a freewill ?

Man though he has a will, his will isnt free from Gods Sovereign Will and Purpose. Mans will is always subservient to Gods Sovereign Purpose !

Im going to share some scripture which without doubt, indicate that mans will is subservient to Gods Will of Purpose.

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

These are just a few verses, there are many more !
Then as one, anyone goes out and about and does their own will(s) according to how one, anyone believes things to be, looking, searching for peace, do not find everlasting peace in them, until one decides to believe God in God's love for them of Son on that cross that took away sin, the condemnation that people still do to themselves and others as well, even though Son died once for us all to reconcile all as forgiven, reconciled from God Father of Son for them first, that is done John 19:30. Which that is what the cross did once for us all reconciled everyone as forgiven by God first Hebrews 10:1-10
Now, Son is risen by Father, Daddy Papa as proof Son is the way, the truth, the new life offered to us all to stand in and see new in Col 1:1-23. Made perfect by Father through Son's done. work, still in need for new life to get given us in trust to Daddy, for us in risen son to us a gift, not of works of another flesh ever, to me at least thank you
There are many from the First (Old Testament) that trusted God even unto death. that Satan then put them in Spirit prison, having the keys to Heaven and Hell then, before the risen Son Jesus took away those keys Satan had and defeated Satan Revelations 1
They were in Spirit prison waiting for the Messiah and Jesus showed up there for three days according to Peter in Peter's Epistles, thanks as we each learn daily in trust to God alone to each us each personally truth over error
Lets play a game called "Truth or error" not dare, love you all, the same as God does
 
Jul 3, 2015
64,857
33,036
113
#5

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
 
Jul 3, 2015
64,857
33,036
113
#6

1 Corinthians 12 verse 2-3 & from Romans 8 verse 9 ~ You know that when you were pagans, you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I inform you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. You are controlled by the Spirit if the Spirit of God lives in you. The Spirit of truth proceeds from the Father to testify about Jesus. From John 15 verse 26
 
Jul 3, 2015
64,857
33,036
113
#7

Despite what the un-Biblical free will doctrine promoters put forth, the natural man does not have everything he needs in order to grow the good fruit of faith from the stony ground of his incurably wicked heart which is opposed to the things of God, and he cannot change himself, being a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness as a slave to sin, being inherently hostile in his mind toward God, and blinded to the truth while under the power of the evil one. Those who promote the free will of the natural man reject a plethora of Biblical truths.
 
Nov 21, 2020
7,069
685
113
#8
If man's will is not morally free, then God is responsible for evil and would warrant hell,
so be careful not to interpret Scripture in a way that blasphemes God's righteousness.
Lol mans will does sin willingly under the control of Gods sovereignty, and so he is guilty because he sinned willfully, not by coercion. Adam from Gods purpose standpoint had no other choice but to sin, to disobey, but he did it willingly making him culpable
 

BillyBob

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2023
667
313
63
Texas
#9
It seems to me that man has a free will up to the point that it is in opposition to the will of God. At that point, the desires of man are dashed or redirected to produce the outcome desired by God. Acts 9:3-6
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,889
837
113
#10

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
And thank you, seeing it, learning it and doing by God's done work of Son humbly, I know and yet do not think so.n Woe is me
 

lrs68

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2024
1,478
398
83
#11
If God reveals Himself or draws a person to Him and they are able to reject Him they rejected God because they choose to. Romans 1 tells us that.

So if God manifests Himself or draws a person to Him and they come aren't they doing the opposite of rejecting God?

If rejecting God is choice like the Bible claims then how is coming to\accepting God not choice?

This is where the Reformed Doctrine is flawed.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
22,815
7,791
113
63
#12
If God reveals Himself or draws a person to Him and they are able to reject Him they rejected God because they choose to. Romans 1 tells us that.

So if God manifests Himself or draws a person to Him and they come aren't they doing the opposite of rejecting God?

If rejecting God is choice like the Bible claims then how is coming to\accepting God not choice?

This is where the Reformed Doctrine is flawed.
Reformed doctrine doesn't say men don't make choices. They say those choices are limited or governed by the nature of the individual.
 
Nov 21, 2020
7,069
685
113
#13
Then as one, anyone goes out and about and does their own will(s) according to how one, anyone believes things to be, looking, searching for peace, do not find everlasting peace in them, until one decides to believe God in God's love for them of Son on that cross that took away sin, the condemnation that people still do to themselves and others as well, even though Son died once for us all to reconcile all as forgiven, reconciled from God Father of Son for them first, that is done John 19:30. Which that is what the cross did once for us all reconciled everyone as forgiven by God first Hebrews 10:1-10
Now, Son is risen by Father, Daddy Papa as proof Son is the way, the truth, the new life offered to us all to stand in and see new in Col 1:1-23. Made perfect by Father through Son's done. work, still in need for new life to get given us in trust to Daddy, for us in risen son to us a gift, not of works of another flesh ever, to me at least thank you
There are many from the First (Old Testament) that trusted God even unto death. that Satan then put them in Spirit prison, having the keys to Heaven and Hell then, before the risen Son Jesus took away those keys Satan had and defeated Satan Revelations 1
They were in Spirit prison waiting for the Messiah and Jesus showed up there for three days according to Peter in Peter's Epistles, thanks as we each learn daily in trust to God alone to each us each personally truth over error
Lets play a game called "Truth or error" not dare, love you all, the same as God does
Huh ? What does all this mean ?
 

lrs68

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2024
1,478
398
83
#14
Reformed doctrine doesn't say men don't make choices. They say those choices are limited or governed by the nature of the individual.
Ok, so if rejecting God is choice or by the will of a person to do then why isn't the opposite of rejecting God but accepting God also not be done the same way?
 
Nov 21, 2020
7,069
685
113
#15
If God reveals Himself or draws a person to Him and they are able to reject Him they rejected God because they choose to. Romans 1 tells us that.

So if God manifests Himself or draws a person to Him and they come aren't they doing the opposite of rejecting God?

If rejecting God is choice like the Bible claims then how is coming to\accepting God not choice?

This is where the Reformed Doctrine is flawed.
If God draws a person and reveals Himself in them, they are saved, they will follow Him

Now Rom 1 says absolutely nothing about God drawing them, Paul is showing why all men need are wicked, the external proof of God causes them to sin worse and worse. Natures revelation doesnt really make God known in a salvation sense, Jesus does that when He saves us Jn 17:3

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

We know God Truly when given Eternal life, Jesus does that and not for everyone Matt 11:27

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So i dont think you understand Rom 1
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,920
2,439
113
#16
Ok, so if rejecting God is choice or by the will of a person to do then why isn't the opposite of rejecting God but accepting God also not be done the same way?
Some consider that thinking is automatic, that is no one can help what they think, and relatively this is true if one's thinking's primary influenced is of the world, that's natural. But thinking again, otherwise thinking beyond, or metanoia, well that's free thinking and God has made the way for everyone's ability to 'wake up.'
 

lrs68

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2024
1,478
398
83
#17
If God draws a person and reveals Himself in them, they are saved, they will follow Him

Now Rom 1 says absolutely nothing about God drawing them, Paul is showing why all men need are wicked, the external proof of God causes them to sin worse and worse. Natures revelation doesnt really make God known in a salvation sense, Jesus does that when He saves us Jn 17:3

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

We know God Truly when given Eternal life, Jesus does that and not for everyone Matt 11:27

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So i dont think you understand Rom 1
Actually Peter tells us there are people who were APPOINTED [CALLED \ DRAWN BY GOD] but they were disobedient and rejected God.

8 For they stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.......

But nice try ignoring that people who were APPOINTED to be Believers still disobeyed and rejected God.
 

lrs68

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2024
1,478
398
83
#18
Some consider that thinking is automatic, that is no one can help what they think, and relatively this is true if one's thinking's primary influenced is of the world, that's natural. But thinking again, otherwise thinking beyond, or metanoia, well that's free thinking and God has made the way for everyone's ability to 'wake up.'
Well after debating for a few months I have learned their doctrine is one that changes constantly and whenever they are proven incorrect you suddenly will get in return personal beliefs that can't be found anywhere in the doctrine bi-laws.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
22,815
7,791
113
63
#19
Ok, so if rejecting God is choice or by the will of a person to do then why isn't the opposite of rejecting God but accepting God also not be done the same way?
The will, and thus choices, are subject to the nature of the entity. A dog barks. A lion roars. Why? Because that is their nature.
Fallen man has a nature as well. He, too, is limited in how he acts.
 

lrs68

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2024
1,478
398
83
#20
The will, and thus choices, are subject to the nature of the entity. A dog barks. A lion roars. Why? Because that is their nature.
Fallen man has a nature as well. He, too, is limited in how he acts.
But you claim a person is awaken when God draws them. But if they can reject or accept after being drawn according to your beliefs they are awaken doing it. That makes it free will if they've been awakened.