God's Elect: This Ends Any Debate

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GWH

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Oct 19, 2024
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lol. Talk about a long windead rant that means nothing

THEY WERE NEVER OF US.

You claim they were saved, and they willingly gave it up
The apostle John says you are wrong.

I will go with John.
You think THAT was long-winded? Here's a rant with more Scripture for you to misinterpret and disbelieve:

Scriptures that teach the possibility of apostasy include the following:

MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”

1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”

GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”

CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”

2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”

2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”

HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”

HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”

HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”

JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”

2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”

2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”

1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”

JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”

RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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You think THAT was long-winded? Here's a rant with more Scripture for you to misinterpret and disbelieve:

Scriptures that teach the possibility of apostasy include the following:

MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”

1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”

GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”

CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”

2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”

2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”

HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”

HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”

HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”

JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”

2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”

2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”

1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”

JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”

RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”
Dude, If you want the word of God to contradict itself. Making it an irreverent book. Then so be it. You must interpret scripture in a way it is in alignment with itse.f. It can not contradict itself.

1. John said, a person who was with us (going to church, part of the group, Walking with us, involved with us) who has left. And is now an ANTICHRIST (a person who deny’s christ) WAS NEVER OF US. IF THEY WERE OF US, THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE DEPARTED. But they DEPARTED to reveal THEY WERE NEVER OF US.
2. Jesus said, whoever believes (at that moment hey place their faith in him) they will NEVER PERISH. But they will HAVE ETERNAL LIFE (john 3)
3. Jesus said. It is the will of the father that whoever sees and BELIEVES will NEVER PERISH, but will be raised by him on the last day. (John 6)
4. Jesus said “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (John 4)
5. Paul said, we who were dead in tresspasses and sins have been MADE ALIVE.. (we can not then die. After we have been made alive)
6. Paul said that once (the moment) we hear the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation, having believed, we were sealed with the HS of promise until the day of redemption (he actually states we are sealed in three different passages, he does not say as long as we continue to believe, or unless we fall away. He placed no contition on it. he said when thay seal will end, on the day of redemption when we no longer require it)

so you can post verses until your blue in the face. It will not help you

Matt 10 is talking about the disciples who would be sent out going to the cities. As usual upI take it out of context.

Romans 11 is talking about the gentile church. And How israel was cut off. God is warning us we too can be cut off as Israel was. Induvidual salvation is not in question.

I Cor says they may be saved. Hey thats what i have been saying all along. not everyone who says they believe is saved. But John said if they walk away, they were never of us.

I can go on and on.

But your bible contradicts itself. If thats what you want. Well have at it
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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Dude, If you want the word of God to contradict itself. Making it an irreverent book. Then so be it. You must interpret scripture in a way it is in alignment with itse.f. It can not contradict itself.

1. John said, a person who was with us (going to church, part of the group, Walking with us, involved with us) who has left. And is now an ANTICHRIST (a person who deny’s christ) WAS NEVER OF US. IF THEY WERE OF US, THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE DEPARTED. But they DEPARTED to reveal THEY WERE NEVER OF US.
2. Jesus said, whoever believes (at that moment hey place their faith in him) they will NEVER PERISH. But they will HAVE ETERNAL LIFE (john 3)
3. Jesus said. It is the will of the father that whoever sees and BELIEVES will NEVER PERISH, but will be raised by him on the last day. (John 6)
4. Jesus said “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (John 4)
5. Paul said, we who were dead in tresspasses and sins have been MADE ALIVE.. (we can not then die. After we have been made alive)
6. Paul said that once (the moment) we hear the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation, having believed, we were sealed with the HS of promise until the day of redemption (he actually states we are sealed in three different passages, he does not say as long as we continue to believe, or unless we fall away. He placed no contition on it. he said when thay seal will end, on the day of redemption when we no longer require it)

so you can post verses until your blue in the face. It will not help you

Matt 10 is talking about the disciples who would be sent out going to the cities. As usual upI take it out of context.

Romans 11 is talking about the gentile church. And How israel was cut off. God is warning us we too can be cut off as Israel was. Induvidual salvation is not in question.

I Cor says they may be saved. Hey thats what i have been saying all along. not everyone who says they believe is saved. But John said if they walk away, they were never of us.

I can go on and on.

But your bible contradicts itself. If thats what you want. Well have at it
The reason for posting the verses is so you can share how you interpret them, but since you did not do so, I will.

1. MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” He is saved as long as he endures.

RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.” You are saved as long as you continue in his kindness.

1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.” You are saved as long as you hold firmly to the word.

GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” You nullify sving faith by reverting to trying to be justified by works/obeying the law.

CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.” You are saved as long as you are not moved from faith in the gospel.

2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.” You are saved as long as you persevere in faith.

2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;” You will reign with him as long as we do not repent of saving faith and disown him.

HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.” You will share in Christ as long as you hold firmly to the faith/confidence we had when we first accepted Christ.

HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” If you repent of your repentance, you will lose your salvation.

HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.” You are saved as long as you do not throw away your confidence.

JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.” You are saved as long as you persevere when tested.

2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” You are saved as ong as you make your election sure.

2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.” You are saved but commit apostasy, you are worse off than if you had never repented/believed.

1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.” You are saved as long as the gospel you heard at the beginning remains what you believe.

JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.” You are saved as long as you keep yourself in God's love by waiting for eternal life.

RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.” You are saved as long as you remain faithful.

Your turn to share how YOU interpret these verses.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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The reason for posting the verses is so you can share how you interpret them, but since you did not do so, I will.

This just shows you did not read what I said. and you are not only ignorant. but you are unable to read.

I showed the first view verses in context. and showed you how you misinterpreted them

You tell me how these verses can contradict the very words of Jesus and Paul and John.

why does your bible contradict? I exposed the first group. I see no need to expose the rest.; because YOU have to resolve the contradiction.

You have failed to do so. Until you can. There is nothing more to say
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,650
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The reason for posting the verses is so you can share how you interpret them, but since you did not do so, I will.

1. MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” He is saved as long as he endures.

RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.” You are saved as long as you continue in his kindness.

1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.” You are saved as long as you hold firmly to the word.

GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” You nullify sving faith by reverting to trying to be justified by works/obeying the law.

CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.” You are saved as long as you are not moved from faith in the gospel.

2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.” You are saved as long as you persevere in faith.

2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;” You will reign with him as long as we do not repent of saving faith and disown him.

HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.” You will share in Christ as long as you hold firmly to the faith/confidence we had when we first accepted Christ.

HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” If you repent of your repentance, you will lose your salvation.

HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.” You are saved as long as you do not throw away your confidence.

JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.” You are saved as long as you persevere when tested.

2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” You are saved as ong as you make your election sure.

2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.” You are saved but commit apostasy, you are worse off than if you had never repented/believed.

1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.” You are saved as long as the gospel you heard at the beginning remains what you believe.

JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.” You are saved as long as you keep yourself in God's love by waiting for eternal life.

RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.” You are saved as long as you remain faithful.

Your turn to share how YOU interpret these verses.
This just shows you did not read what I said. Its all a game to you you just proved it.

I showed the first view verses in context. and showed you how you misinterpreted them

You tell me how these verses can contradict the very words of Jesus and Paul and John.

why does your bible contradict? I exposed the first group. I see no need to expose the rest.; because YOU have to resolve the contradiction.

You have failed to do so. Until you can. There is nothing more to say
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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This just shows you did not read what I said. Its all a game to you you just proved it.

I showed the first view verses in context. and showed you how you misinterpreted them

You tell me how these verses can contradict the very words of Jesus and Paul and John.

why does your bible contradict? I exposed the first group. I see no need to expose the rest.; because YOU have to resolve the contradiction.

You have failed to do so. Until you can. There is nothing more to say
You project your attitude onto me, but although I lost your game I bet you a million dollars that when we get to heaven we will learn that the interpretation I shared is closer to correct. :^)
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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You project your attitude onto me, but although I lost your game I bet you a million dollars that when we get to heaven we will learn that the interpretation I shared is closer to correct. :^)
lol, I am sorry, But God does not contradict himself

when you can show me passages that are in agreement, or interpret passages which put other parts of scripture in agreement. We can talk.

Until then, I will go with the interpretation which brings scripture to agreement.

If scripture contradicts itself. it is useless. lets throw the whole book out.

And I am not throwing attitude. I am not the one who copied and pasted a bunch of verses and claimed to rant. as in game set match. that was you.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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lol, I am sorry, But God does not contradict himself

when you can show me passages that are in agreement, or interpret passages which put other parts of scripture in agreement. We can talk.

Until then, I will go with the interpretation which brings scripture to agreement.

If scripture contradicts itself. it is useless. lets throw the whole book out.

And I am not throwing attitude. I am not the one who copied and pasted a bunch of verses and claimed to rant. as in game set match. that was you.
You called my post a “longwinded rant” yesterday at 6:46 am.

At least we agree that the correct interpretation of GW will not contradict itself.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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You called my post a “longwinded rant” yesterday at 6:46 am.
Well it was in my view. a long rant that did nto answer the question posed..

And was not in sticking to what John said.. You still have not responded as to why John would say they were never of us. if according to you. they were of us and they lost it.

At least we agree that the correct interpretation of GW will not contradict itself.
so why do you have an interpretation that contradicts the word of Jesus paul and John?
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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Well it was in my view. a long rant that did nto answer the question posed..

And was not in sticking to what John said.. You still have not responded as to why John would say they were never of us. if according to you. they were of us and they lost it.


so why do you have an interpretation that contradicts the word of Jesus paul and John?
I don't. Jesus taught that the evidence of saving faith or satisfying GRFS is working faith or helping humanity, which is recorded in JN 13:35, and John restates that truth in 1JN 2:7-17.

Interpreting the statement in 1JN 2:19 as meaning that those who went out were never saved is quite problematic, because that would mean a believer could not have assurance of salvation until at the last gasp of life.

Disciples of Jesus (or Believers) tend to love and help others, not by virtue of their own goodness, but because they are moved or motivated by the loving Spirit of the Lord (1JN 4:7-8). Humans can never become good enough to earn or merit salvation as a reward for right behavior. A person cannot be good by doing good. Those who try to attain heaven by imitating Christ-like behavior without accepting Christ’s Lordship and atonement actually go in the opposite direction (GL 5:4), so we should cooperate with God’s Way.

No one achieves moral perfection in this life, but Paul writes that no one who lacks divine love will reap eternal life with God (GL 6:7-8). Thus, a person who claims to be godly but who is behaving in an ungodly (unloving, untruthful) manner may be in one of the following categories:

a. a normally loving person observed during a rare moment when he/she acted uncharacteristically (PHP 3:12-16),

b. an immature Believer, who is making progress–you should have known him/her a year ago! (1CR 3:1-3, EPH 4:11-15)

c. a truthseeker who has not yet learned the correct interpretation of God’s Word (1CR 6:9-11, EPH 5:8-9)

[These are the types of folks John warns to remain "in what you have heard from the beginning" or the Gospel in 1JN 2:24-25.]

d. a pseudo-Christian (MT 7:21), who may affirm morality while rejecting its divine rationale. [This would include those cited in 1JN 2:19.]
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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The 'Once Saved, Always Saved' doctrine of men, also linked with the Hyper-Grace movement, and with man's false pre-tribulational rapture escape doctrine, is designed to deceive. Those men who teach such things are not staying with the actual Bible Scriptures, but are preparing their congregations to be deceived especially at the end of this world during the coming "great tribulation".

Those men who come up with such ideas are more interested in finding ways to keep and build their congregations rather than reveal the Truth which God's Word warns us about with the end time events. Telling you that you are going to 'escape' the coming "great tribulation" altogether is one of their biggest lies to deceive you.

The end times for Christ's Church will be like the time of Israel's deceptions in Isaiah 30, where the people told God's prophets, "Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: ..." (Isaiah 30:10). Many brethren will leave a Church that is preaching God's Word straight from The Bible full strength, because they cannot handle God's Truth, but instead want "smooth things" preached in their ears instead.

This is why the Christian seminaries often tell their trained preachers to get a believer back on the 'milk' of The Word if they ask a bunch of deeper Bible questions, the petitioner realizing there's more in God's written Word than those Churches are preaching.

2 Tim 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
KJV

1 Tim 4:1-2
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
KJV


2 Tim 3:1-7
3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
KJV
Just name-calling and not providing why teaching is false makes you look unlearned. And immature.

The doctrine of the Rapture is biblical, and there are other positions. This is why we who understand the word of God know the Return of Jesus is soon. We are to be ready. Many teachings of our Lord were just that:
Get ready and be ready :

Matthew 24:30-31
Matthew 25:1-13
John chapter 14


And Also Paul :

1 Corinthians 15
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
 

FaithMan

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Mar 26, 2014
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There's scripture in the Old Testament that tells us the sins of the father do not pass to the sons. Everyone is responsible for their own sins.

Then there are verses that tell us about generational sin.
https://www.openbible.info/topics/generational_sin


Sin entered this world by one man. Only because God planted a tree and made it off limits. His enemy entered Eden.

God is Sovereign and has Dominion.

Sin did not have to enter his creation.
After a quick survey of the link you posted, I was quite disappointed in that website and the erroneous implication that any of those verses support the theory of "generational sins". The most well-known occurrence of the phrase, "visiting the sins of the fathers onto the children" (first occurring in Exodus 20:5) in no way states that the children will especially inherit a certain supernatural proclivity to commit the same sins as the parents. There are five other occurrences of that basic motif in scripture and the most significant situational example is found in Numbers 14 when Moses invoked this language during the rebellion. Obviously, he knew it applied to the situation; it was not ornamental language.


Although the children (all those under 20 years of age) were innocent of rebellion, they still had to suffer alongside their parents by wandering in the desert for an additional 40 years. Because God is a just God, He could not withhold the punishment due to the parents simply because their children were innocent. Moreover, those children were still under the care of the parents--they needed them--so God could not allow them to cross over on their own. Thus, God visited the sins of the parents onto the children.


Can you imagine being 19 years of age and on the verge of crossing into the Promise Land only to learn that because of your parent's sin, your crossing will be delayed until you are 59 years old? It is noteworthy to point out that God would not allow any men under the age of 20 to be counted as a fighting men. In the promise land, Israel would fight many battles. If God were to allow the innocent to cross over, from where would those children draw from to form an army of fighting men of an approved age? I could go on with other issues involved. As horrible as it was, the best scenario was to allow the innocent to remain with their parents, although they would wander in the desert for 40 additional years. Their very youth was stolen from them because of their parent’s rebellion. Quite a sobering consideration for any parent.


We simply need to get back to the time proven adage of letting the Bible interpret itself instead of listening to all the voices who don't consider everything the Bible has to say on the subject.

For anyone interested, I've written a book that deals with this issue in depth. Its title is:

The Deliverance Delusion, Exposing the Curse Deliverance Myth.

For anyone that can't afford it, contact me and I will send you a copy for free barring an avalanche of such requests.

Patrick Rhodes
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Can you imagine being 19 years of age and on the verge of crossing into the Promise Land only to learn that because of your parent's sin, your crossing will be delayed until you are 59 years old?
Actually as a 19 Y/O he would most likely have been guilty himself. remember only Joshua voted to go. everyone else voted no.. And only Joshua entered.

Now as a 5 y/o yes, they would have had to wait until hey were 45 years old to enter.

Also remember, Daniel was a just man, but he suffered the sins of his fathers,
 

Cameron143

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Actually as a 19 Y/O he would most likely have been guilty himself. remember only Joshua voted to go. everyone else voted no.. And only Joshua entered.

Now as a 5 y/o yes, they would have had to wait until hey were 45 years old to enter.

Also remember, Daniel was a just man, but he suffered the sins of his fathers,
What about Caleb?
 

Kroogz

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You think THAT was long-winded? Here's a rant with more Scripture for you to misinterpret and disbelieve:

Scriptures that teach the possibility of apostasy include the following:

MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”

1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”

GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”

CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”

2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”

2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”

HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”

HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”

HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”

JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”

2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”

2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”

1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”

JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”

RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”
There is absolutely NOTHING in those verses to prove your case that this is about losing,maintaining or forfeiting salvation.

It's the same as the calvies~~they have absolutely no verse that explicitly say, "Mankind cannot believe His Gospel."

Both sides go in with preconceived ideas, and both sides use the same techniques to try to "prove" their indoctrination.

Mankind CAN believe His Gospel to them.

ALL believers will NEVER perish and will not ever, no, not ever come into condemnation.

PERIOD. You can kick against the pricks all you want. To your detriment.
 

bluejean_bible

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To think,the gospel was taught by God himself. Direct and to the point. No debate for thousands of years.

Then the Internet was created,and bible discussion forums arrived. And now the Gospel is a matter of debate. And humans are certain they can put the gospel into the proper context.

We're weird.
 

bluejean_bible

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It's the same as the calvies~~they have absolutely no verse that explicitly say, "Mankind cannot believe His Gospel."
1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
 

Kroogz

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1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
Interesting that the context is believers who are living in the flesh rather than the Spirit.
Unbelievers are body and soul.

Lots of natural men on this forum that can't discern a gnat from a camel.


John 10:30~~I and the Father are one.”

John 6:40~~For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 12:32~~And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

To ALL ~~Acts 16:31

A natural man will say, " This doesn't mean ALL." A spiritual man KNOWS Christ died for all.....We just need to Believe it.
 

bluejean_bible

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Interesting that the context is believers who are living in the flesh rather than the Spirit.
Unbelievers are body and soul.

Lots of natural men on this forum that can't discern a gnat from a camel.


John 10:30~~I and the Father are one.”

John 6:40~~For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 12:32~~And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

To ALL ~~Acts 16:31

A natural man will say, " This doesn't mean ALL." A spiritual man KNOWS Christ died for all.....We just need to Believe it.
You can't divide this community through errant judgement.

Christ died for all whom the father gives him.
John 6:65Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”