God's Elect: This Ends Any Debate
- Thread starter DavyP
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
In the thread she posted this
I have come across an idea lately within this forum, that some believe that there are 2 classes of Christian. They believe that there is a class called 'the elect', who have no choice but to be saved because God has decided they will be saved no matter what and the 2nd class being those who are not elect but are still able to be saved through choosing Christ.
I do not agree with either of the choices..lol.. But I see now. She said she sees that there are som who believe in these two choices.. So maybe it was not what she saw
I have come across an idea lately within this forum, that some believe that there are 2 classes of Christian. They believe that there is a class called 'the elect', who have no choice but to be saved because God has decided they will be saved no matter what and the 2nd class being those who are not elect but are still able to be saved through choosing Christ.
I do not agree with either of the choices..lol.. But I see now. She said she sees that there are som who believe in these two choices.. So maybe it was not what she saw
You are welcome... it was quite strange, that the other would say you could elect yourself if you were
not chosen, but then deny she said that, even though she would say it repeatedly, and not just in the
original thread, whichever one that was, which inspired the making of the new thread (the one I gave
the link for)... then at other times, she would seem to correct herself, but then somewhere else later
repeat the same nonsense. Very strange indeed. She came across as being quite confused on this issue,
but if you pointed any of these facts out to her, she would say you were the one who was confused.
not chosen, but then deny she said that, even though she would say it repeatedly, and not just in the
original thread, whichever one that was, which inspired the making of the new thread (the one I gave
the link for)... then at other times, she would seem to correct herself, but then somewhere else later
repeat the same nonsense. Very strange indeed. She came across as being quite confused on this issue,
but if you pointed any of these facts out to her, she would say you were the one who was confused.
-
1
- Show all
OK. The person in question was suggesting 2 'classes' and it seems the thread in response was only addressing that.
I am curious as to what 'classes' besides those addressed, you believe exist? Then again you seem to say the 2 classes talked about are not classes
I am curious as to what 'classes' besides those addressed, you believe exist? Then again you seem to say the 2 classes talked about are not classes
the 2 classes
class 1 - there is a class called 'the elect', who have no choice but to be saved because God has decided they will be saved no matter what
Class 2: being those who are not elect but are still able to be saved through choosing Christ.
the first one says they have no choice.
the second one says they can get saved even though they are not elect or .
I believe there is at least a 3rd class - Those who god foreknew in his omniscience would come to him in faith, and God predestined them to be conformed to his image. they chose to believe, and did not remain in unbelief (john 3)
I don't believe that there are people who never had a choice. What I believe is that God looked at that person and their future and saw that this person would never leave Him once they've decided to follow Him (even from birth).
God will never take our free-will away from us - it's just that some of us are like that bond servant who has made the decision to remain with his/her master:
Deuteronomy 15:16 And if it happens that he says to you, ‘I will not go away from you,’ because he loves you and your house, since he prospers with you, 17 then you shall take an awl and thrust it through his ear to the door, and he shall be your servant forever. Also to your female servant you shall do likewise.
🥕
I really am not sure of what you are trying to say. I simply believe we are saved as per scripture and I do believe that God guides us to that point. As for the arguments concerning Calvinism, the hardcore adherents are often just plain nasty. I also do not think many people understand what 'reformed' means or its attachments to the Calvinistic portrayal of scripture.
God knows those who are His regardless of anyone who specifies a special order for baptism and in whose name to baptize, or whether or not they believe Calvin is a part of their theology, or the denomination they are a part of. God looks on the heart.
Frankly, I cannot find 'classes of Christian' in the Bible, no matter what translation I come across.
God knows those who are His regardless of anyone who specifies a special order for baptism and in whose name to baptize, or whether or not they believe Calvin is a part of their theology, or the denomination they are a part of. God looks on the heart.
Frankly, I cannot find 'classes of Christian' in the Bible, no matter what translation I come across.
-
1
- Show all
Oh I agree. he will never take away our free will.
Another person in another chatroom said to me we can not produce faith. i agree. we can not produce it. People earn our trust when they prove they are trustworthy.
If God worked in us to the extent we trust him and receive his salvation. The only way we would lose trust in God is if God proved unfaithful.
since that will never happen. we will never lose faith.
Another person in another chatroom said to me we can not produce faith. i agree. we can not produce it. People earn our trust when they prove they are trustworthy.
If God worked in us to the extent we trust him and receive his salvation. The only way we would lose trust in God is if God proved unfaithful.
since that will never happen. we will never lose faith.
Yes, it is the remaining in Him that keeps us strong because He is our strength. I don't agree though that since God isn't unfaithful, that we can't ever lose faith - we still have free will to choose to not keep going with Him.
I know you and I won't ever want to leave Him and will never do it - but it's because we really do willfully choose - and continually do willfully choose everyday to forever - to always be with God.
But it must be acknowledged that there are people who for reasons I can't understand - will fall out of love for God and willfully don't want to remain in Him. I don't know why that happens, but it does.
🥕
-
1
- Show all
“I don't know why that happens, but it does.”
“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
John 3:19-21
aid you offer a hero in addict who loves the feeling of the high it gives them a cure and tell them you can o longer have tbat high feeling you love ….
the message isn’t always received because they don’t see the perspective of the people not on heroin tbat it’s destroying them and thier body and mind and life. And is going to bring death eventually they are just in love with the feeling of the high so the messsage “ stop getting high it’s going to eventually kill you sort of falls on def ears
but then there’s some who want to get off the heroin because they have moments of clarity where they realize “ this isn’t good it’s destroying me “ the message of a cure for the addiction and same message “ you can no longer get high and have that feeling “ it is received differently by the hearts preparation the broken ones will accept it the ones who still love sin and the feeling of the pleasures it give man aren’t going to want the message.
Same with following after we believe look at this parable it gives us a few reasons people stop following Jesus
“The sower soweth the word.
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground;
who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, and the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.”
Mark 4:14-20 KJV
It’s not that some can’t hear the message but as we persevere hearing eventually it begins to call for things from us like repentance and obedience to Jesus through the gospel . So we want the promise but not the condition is eas made with by him “ I’ll take salvation but if it means I have to change my ways that I like and do and enjoy them it’s not for me “
The wrong message is “ there’s nothing you need to do now your saved already don’t think you need to repent like he said or obey the gospel as he said no your already saved don’t worry about it he doesn’t ask anything if you you don’t have to stop what you are doing that you know is sinful “ you’ll never be judged you can’t be ect ect that’s all the opposite of the right message we find in scripture of be diligent in Gods things serve the lord willingly and fervently love for Jesus and not yourself lay down the pleasures of the flesh and excesses the love of money ect ext because those who live that way will be judged by them
doctrine is so important we should stick to what Jesus and his apostles taught in thier words false doctrine leads to destruction of those who would be saved
“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
2 Peter 2:1-2
They being the destruction upon themselves and the others then follow them into thier ways and begin bekng tirned against the truth . See this could only happen to people who initially beilieved others wouldn’t be learning in chrich from false teachers if they had rejected the gospel not believing
“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
John 3:19-21
aid you offer a hero in addict who loves the feeling of the high it gives them a cure and tell them you can o longer have tbat high feeling you love ….
the message isn’t always received because they don’t see the perspective of the people not on heroin tbat it’s destroying them and thier body and mind and life. And is going to bring death eventually they are just in love with the feeling of the high so the messsage “ stop getting high it’s going to eventually kill you sort of falls on def ears
but then there’s some who want to get off the heroin because they have moments of clarity where they realize “ this isn’t good it’s destroying me “ the message of a cure for the addiction and same message “ you can no longer get high and have that feeling “ it is received differently by the hearts preparation the broken ones will accept it the ones who still love sin and the feeling of the pleasures it give man aren’t going to want the message.
Same with following after we believe look at this parable it gives us a few reasons people stop following Jesus
“The sower soweth the word.
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground;
who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; and have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, and the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.”
Mark 4:14-20 KJV
It’s not that some can’t hear the message but as we persevere hearing eventually it begins to call for things from us like repentance and obedience to Jesus through the gospel . So we want the promise but not the condition is eas made with by him “ I’ll take salvation but if it means I have to change my ways that I like and do and enjoy them it’s not for me “
The wrong message is “ there’s nothing you need to do now your saved already don’t think you need to repent like he said or obey the gospel as he said no your already saved don’t worry about it he doesn’t ask anything if you you don’t have to stop what you are doing that you know is sinful “ you’ll never be judged you can’t be ect ect that’s all the opposite of the right message we find in scripture of be diligent in Gods things serve the lord willingly and fervently love for Jesus and not yourself lay down the pleasures of the flesh and excesses the love of money ect ext because those who live that way will be judged by them
doctrine is so important we should stick to what Jesus and his apostles taught in thier words false doctrine leads to destruction of those who would be saved
“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
2 Peter 2:1-2
They being the destruction upon themselves and the others then follow them into thier ways and begin bekng tirned against the truth . See this could only happen to people who initially beilieved others wouldn’t be learning in chrich from false teachers if they had rejected the gospel not believing